Junior Grand Prix Final Judging Scandal Under Investigation???

[netnuts]

Just read this rumor from another board that is worth our attention... Tthere seems to be some controversy over the ice dance competition at the Junior Grand Prix Final which has just concluded...

http://forums.isu.org/viewtopic.php?t=1016&postdays=0&postorder=asc&start=30

edge17:

Heard a rumour that the dance judges are now under review for the judging at the grand prix finals, its about time that they try to clean this up, and hopefully they could retire some of the oldies that still think its within their powers to control the outcome and leave it to the more honest younger judges that have had enough of the corruption. Get rid of all those judges over 50 in my opinion, get some fresh, smarter new blood!

edge17:

I've just chatted with my contact at the ISU and here is his take on what happened this week in the dance portion of the JGP final.

The fix was in from the start, block judging from the eastern block countries and the results were suppose to finish like this. M/T were to win followed by G/B, S/B, C/Z, C/P , P/C, and the other 2, regarless of the skating, and there were enough influence on the judging panel to do so. The funny story was the C/Z's coach, having a Russian background wanted to make sure C/Z finished ahead of C/P, and if not for the mistakes, they would have. The coach of C/Z was so upset that the deal was broken when S/B pulled ahead, she threw a fit and started thorwing things.

The ISU is now investigating the whole incident of block judging and who knew what, but all involved including the Russian coach should be ashamed of themselves including C/Z's coach. If the fix is already in, why not give the medals before and save on all travelling costs for the federations !!

chuckiem:

I just did an analysis of the protocols, particularly the GOEs and the PCS scores.

It's amazing what I found. The judges (with the exception of USA, CAN and JPN) all seemed to know exactly how to place the teams via PCS scores to make them come out in the desired order.

The GOEs were almost completely lockstep for 3 of the judges. Those 3 consistently gave the two Russian teams HUGE GOE, and held back the GOE for the teams most closely ranked to them. This was especially true for Gorshkova/Butikov in the FD, because they had the lowest TES of the top 5 teams and would have been even lower if they didn't get some help with high GOE.

The Canadian team got clobbered the worst because they were the team most likely to challenge G/B for bronze. But the Canadian judge tried to even the playing field by using the PCS scores to place C/P first in both OD and FD

Your thoughts??

 

[oleada]

Since it is just a rumor, I am hesitant to believe it.
But it sucks, because the ones who are hurt the most are the skaters.

 

[sk8addict]

Since it is just a rumor, I am hesitant to believe it.
But it sucks, because the ones who are hurt the most are the skaters.

Since it's figure skating, I'm more inclined to believe it. Why do you think we are the only fans left.

 

[MissIzzy]

If it's true, better we get this dealt with now before these practices continue any further.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I can understand the collusion but it is not been proven. It's more of bias towards certain teams and anti bias toward others which is ingrained in countries who MUST win any which way they can.

The Sport is having a hard time in the US with all these accusations left unanswered. Amercans go more for sportsmanship than for allusions of grandeur. This 'scandal' left uninvestigated will hurt the sport all the more in the US. The American media does not like the sport and they will eat this up with relish. Shades of toe tapping and Salt Lake City. Don't investigate it is the cry from the ISU.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

What a farcical "sport."

Let's check out the total GOEs given to Samuelson and Bates in the Free Dance.

U.S. judge: 15.0

Russia/Ukraine/Georgia average: 6.3

Rest of the panel average: 10.6

Why skate? Why not just look at the nationalities of the judges and give out the medals?

BTW, the U.S. judge did not understand the game. In judging Monko and Tkachenko, the U.S. judge gave a total of 10 GOE points, compared to a panel average of 10.2. No, no, that's all wrong. You must inflate your own skaters' scores AND lowball the opposition.

(M&T won the free dance over S&B by 1 point.)

 

[netnuts]

U.S. judge: 15.0

Russia/Ukraine/Georgia average: 6.3

Rest of the panel average: 10.6

.)

Wow. This is statistically significant... Wow, very powerful evidence something is terribly wrong..

 

[enlight78]

This is riddiculus. It is so sad that I am actually laughing right now. In juniors most of the kids are not even old enought to drive. This is really damaging for the skaters not just skating's reputation. To bad figure skating doesn't have the money to hire an official set of Judges to judge at every international event instead of using federations.Have the exact same panel exact same technical callers.

 

[attyfan]

So, now we know that the CoP is a complete waste of time and money. We have lost the simple elegance of moves like a Nikodinov layback, and don't have the "honest judging" to compensate. We have lost an easy to understand system -- when someone like Kwan at '98 Nats or Yags at '02 Olys got a lot of 6.0s, everyone could understand why -- and have the same corruption that sunk the sport after the SLC pairs scandal.

 

[MissIzzy]

I think CoP has made it better, actually. Under 6.0 system Domnina and Shabalin probably would have won Cup of China, and I doubt Samuelson and Bates would've passed the second Russian team. The problem is, of course, that it doesn't address the heart of the problem.

 

[Winnipeg]

If this is true, it is disgusting. How these adults who are entrusted to make unbiased opinions in a judging position could abuse their position would be (if true) a reason to ban them from judging EVER again.

Why can't figure skating results be audited? If found to be sub-par in terms of judging, hold the judge(s) accountable.

This is exactly why I boycotted dance events for so many years.................:scowl::scowl: What a shame for the sport

 

[sillylionlove]

Another scandal? Not really surprised here.

 

[Mafke]

But it sucks, because the ones who are hurt the most are the skaters.

It actually hurts the entire discipline. A judge caught cheating should be suspended for life. Judges need to be held to the highest possible standards of accountability. Otherwise, it'll just become Pro-Wrestling on Ice.

 

[ManyCairns]

It actually hurts the entire discipline. A judge caught cheating should be suspended for life. Judges need to be held to the highest possible standards of accountability. Otherwise, it'll just become Pro-Wrestling on Ice.

ITA. :agree: Judges who have been caught in known collusions to fix results should not STILL be judging.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

ITA. :agree: Judges who have been caught in known collusions to fix results should not STILL be judging.

One has to prove collusion, but I doubt Speedy will allow that.

But MM's numbers are significant. I can understand the american giving the high score to the American team (it's pro-bias). But as Zhulin says, Americans don't know how to play the game. (nothing to do with skating. it's just how to cheat properly). The Amercian judge was honest about the Russian team and it gave them the win. American judges have to wake up and put one team up and the other down.

I doubt there will be an investigation, and even if there is, there will be no penalty except a prohibit from judging for 3 months and then back into the Worlds. Maybe Euros.

Joe

 

[OldSkaterMom]

ITA. :agree: Judges who have been caught in known collusions to fix results should not STILL be judging.

Absolutely true. And judges that have been suspended should not be allowed back. And do away with anonymous judging on the senior international level. Probably everyone has heard Dick Button wax eloquently about this since the Olympics. It is scandulous and is giving the sport a bad name and losing fans.

 

[Mathman]

Now that we have Monko/Tkachenko safely in first place, with Samuelson/Bates second, here are Gorshkova/Butikov and Crone/Poirier fighting it out for bronze.

Total GOEs earned in the free dance.

Gorshkova and Butikov.

Canadian judge: 4.0
RUS / UKR / GEO (average): 7.7
Rest of the panel (average): 6.6

Crone and Poirier.

Canadian judge: 13.0
RUS / UKR / GEO (average): 4.3
Rest of panel (average): 7.8

 

[chuckm]

There's one more interesting placement: Riazanova/Guerreiro in last place. This team had two good JGP events and received glowing mentions by posters on this an other boards. They scored over 150 total in both their JGP events, and what did they score here? Just over 135.

And why do you think that was? If the 'coalition' was going to be held together, R/G had to be the sacrificial lamb to ensure that the Ukrainian and Italian teams did not place last. The Russian, Ukrainian and Georgian judges all lowballed R/G in every phase of the competition, both in GOE and PCS, and the Italian judge did the same.

So it's not just the US and Canadian teams that got the shaft. The young Russian team did, too.

 

[chuckm]

Looking ahead to Junior Worlds, here's the judging lineup:

Judges for the CD and OD:
BUL
CAN
CZE
EST
FRA
GER
GBR
HUN
ITA
SVK
SUI
UKR

Two former SSRs there, and 4 Eastern European countries. Not too bad.

The FD: AUS, POL, RUS, USA, plus 8 judges chosen at random from the CD/OD panel.

Worst case scenario: 3 SSRs and 5 Eastern European judges. If that happens, Monko/Tkachenko and Gorshkova/Butikov will take the top 2 spots.

If it stays 2 and 4, it could go either way. As Mathman said, as long as certain judges work both ends of the system (raise your guy, dump his rivals) instead of scoring the skating fairly and all the other judges base their scoring mostly on the skating, then justice will not be done.

 

[skatingfan04]

Another Scandal?I'm really getting sick of this:banging: Wait, how do we know which judge is which, since the judging is anonomous?? I'll believe it when my question is answered. If it is true, however, I really though this new system would stop things like this. What scares me the most was that it seems the whole pannel was involved.