Junior Grand Prix Final Judging Scandal Under Investigation???

[oleada]

And who is to say that the competition WAS scored fairly? There is evidence to show that there were definite irregularities. Those who want to ignore or dispute that evidence are those who wanted the winning team to come out on top.

Except that if you look at the statistical analysis done by someone in this thread, the only irregularities shown are national biases. If you take out the supposedly biased judges, the results remain the same.

 

[chuckm]

Except that if you look at the statistical analysis done by someone in this thread, the only irregularities shown are national biases. If you take out the supposedly biased judges, the results remain the same.

But no judges WERE taken out, and the huge score boosts for the Russian teams came from THREE judges all for the benefit of two teams, while the US and Canadian 'boosts' each benefitted only ONE team.

I believe the Italians were party to the deal as well, and the POL and CZE teams were far more likely to favor European teams than NA ones.

I would have liked to have seen a more balanced panel for these championship competitions, but I guess that is a pipe dream. There should NEVER be more than two former SSRs on a panel, and Eastern and Western European judges should be in balance (and Eastern should include former SSRs). That is only fair, since it's not possible to have more than 2 NA countries on an ice dance panel (Mexico doesn't have an ice dance judge).

And anyway, USA and CAN are never going to be in sync. If Canada has an ice dance team in the top 6, a Canadian judge will usually place that team ahead of any US team, even if a US team is a medal contender.

When you get multiple judges from former SSRs on a panel, they invariably will support Russian teams above all others. I have seen this in my analysis of the previous JGP events. The only exception is the LTU judge, who has shown herself to be a maverick, and lately she hasn't gotten that many assignments. The AZE, ARM, EST, GEO and UZB judges appeared multiple times throughout the JGP series, and they did what they were expected to do.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Regional judging is the answer: Asia; N&S.America, W.Europe, E.Europe, and Other if interested. Piseev did not want this and with Speedy it never even got an agenda item.

Joe

 

[gsrossano]

Total points for first four couples.

Notice how judges 3 and 7 have pulled down the points for the Russian skaters, and pushed up the marks for the CAN and US skaters.

Notice how judges 4, 5 and 6 have done the opposite.

 

[bekalc]

It seems to me that the Canadian and the American judges were just as much of the problem.

However, it seems ilke the majority of the judges, had the teams on the podium, in the order they were on there.

 

[oleada]

Also, it seems to me that the person in the ISU was confused or lying. He or she said that an investigation was underway, but when asked he said that the Canadian team and ref "might" file a protest, but how can an investigation be underway (as he said in its first post) if no one has filed a protest (which no one has to this point). Sounds a little fishy there.

No one here has seen the competition. It's a little sickening all these judgments being made based on little to no evidence. It seems more to me that some people want to hop on the block judging bandwagon because their favorites didn't win.

Every judge seemed to be trying to push it's own team, and aside from that, there doesn't seem to be much else here, imo.

 

[chuckm]

But the American and Canadian judges weren't acting together. The Russian, Ukrainian and Georgian judges were.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It seems to me that the Canadian and the American judges were just as much of the problem.

However, it seems ilke the majority of the judges, had the teams on the podium, in the order they were on there.

Maybe they were reacting to the scores of the CD and OD?

 

[oleada]

Except no judge, including the US judge, had Gorshkova and Butikov lower than second in the compulsory dance. And only the US and Japanese judges had Emily and Evan ahead, all the other judges had them at least third.

 

[bekalc]

Maybe they were reacting to the scores of the CD and OD?

And in the case of the Original dance, the only judges that had the Americans ahead of the Russians were the American and Canadian judges. All of the judges put the Russians ahead of the others, and it was actually quite close. In the Original dance and in the Free dance, the Americans actually got slightly more GOE, but most of the judges except for the American and the Canadians had them ahead in PCS, which goes with the person over at FSU's report that the Russian team had better flow than the Americans.

Besides the people who are claiming collusion don't even have their stories straight. I've heard that it's the Russians/Georgians/Italians? Russians/ Ukranians/Italians etc.

Plus, I think it's ridiculous to lump Eastern Europe together.. There is a lot of bad blood between Eastern European countries and Russia. And well saying only two W. European judges, 2 Eastern European judges, 2 N. Americans, well that really hurts the European skaters, because it means there will always be an American, Canadian judge on the panel, but not always one from their particular country.

 

[Mathman]

GREAT post, Gsrossano.

 

[bekalc]

Please don't get me wrong, I'm not saying that collusion couldn't happen. But it seems like whenever there is talk about collussion it's always the Evil Russians versus the poor innocent N. Americans.
Personally, I think they are all dirty.

And honestly don't understand all this bitterness...

Yes, Russia at one time dominated Pairs and Dance. But you know what, in most cases its because in those areas, the Russians really were that much better. In the case of the men, the same can be said as well. Yes, I guess Urmanov and Petrenko winning was "controversial" but it was a pretty clear cut decision on the judges part. Even the Canadian judged voted for Urmanov over Stojiko. I'm not saying they were that much better this time, but I'd like to actually see the competition before screaming was robbed.

Although I must admit that I'm thrilled about the idea of the Russians returning to form in Dance and Pairs, because I think the sport really does need them.

 

[chuckm]

The Russians are the ONLY federation that 'lend' their judges to smaller federations and then ensure that several of them get assigned to judging panels in addition to Russian judges. Imagine if the US 'loaned' judges to other countries and 'helped' them get judging assignments so that there were frequently two or three US judges on a panel. You'd hear the outrage all across the globe.

I won't even go into the past judging scandals that got several Russian and Ukrainian judges banned for a few years. And these judges are STILL being assigned to competitions!

 

[dancemaster]

There's one more interesting placement: Riazanova/Guerreiro in last place. This team had two good JGP events and received glowing mentions by posters on this an other boards. They scored over 150 total in both their JGP events, and what did they score here? Just over 135.

And why do you think that was? If the 'coalition' was going to be held together, R/G had to be the sacrificial lamb to ensure that the Ukrainian and Italian teams did not place last. The Russian, Ukrainian and Georgian judges all lowballed R/G in every phase of the competition, both in GOE and PCS, and the Italian judge did the same.

So it's not just the US and Canadian teams that got the shaft. The young Russian team did, too.

that is the thing that is most sad..the two youngest team seemed to get hard done by

 

[tangos]

I was at the competition and I saw all the practices and events. I will say that in MHO the marking did not reflect what was skated. The results may have been the same or slightly different if level calls and pcs had more accurately reflected performances. And I guess that is the crux of the collusion discussion - how many and to what extent, did not want to take a chance on it being different!

 

[chuckm]

I was at the competition and I saw all the practices and events. I will say that in MHO the marking did not reflect what was skated. The results may have been the same or slightly different if level calls and pcs had more accurately reflected performances. And I guess that is the crux of the collusion discussion - how many and to what extent, did not want to take a chance on it being different!

How did you think it should have been marked?

 

[dancemaster]

I was at the competition and I saw all the practices and events. I will say that in MHO the marking did not reflect what was skated. The results may have been the same or slightly different if level calls and pcs had more accurately reflected performances. And I guess that is the crux of the collusion discussion - how many and to what extent, did not want to take a chance on it being different!

would be nice to get a little report??

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

OOOH. I never did think of level calls as a point for corruption. That all powerful Tech Asst can really screw up the scores if he wants to.

Skater A and Skater B execute Lutzes. Skater B has a wrong edge takeoff, but not called. Skater A gets a Level 2 with a Tano arm, while Skater B gets a Level 3 on shaky landing. The scores are given but Skater B gets higher than Skater A because of the Level.

Is that the way it works?

Joe

 

[gkelly]

There are no levels for jumps. The technical specialists just call which jump was performed.

The only places where they make decisions about jumps that can affect the scores are in calling underrotations, wrong-edge takeoffs, and (when the skaters don't execute them cleanly enough to make it obvious) combinations vs. sequences vs. two separate jump passes.

The tech panel has more power in determining the levels of all the nonjump elements.

Of course we're talking about ice dance in this case, and there are no jumps in ice dance -- it's all elements with levels.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There are no levels for jumps. The technical specialists just call which jump was performed.

The only places where they make decisions about jumps that can affect the scores are in calling underrotations, wrong-edge takeoffs, and (when the skaters don't execute them cleanly enough to make it obvious) combinations vs. sequences vs. two separate jump passes.

The tech panel has more power in determining the levels of all the nonjump elements.

Of course we're talking about ice dance in this case, and there are no jumps in ice dance -- it's all elements with levels.

Thanks gkelly. I think with all the help you are giving and others, I should be a good critic by Vancouver.

btw. What elements do get levelled? I know spirals do. Not that that means much to me. footwork. Are the exact steps in the FW written out in the PP Sheet? I can't believe the Caller can remember all the variations, and the judges must score just the performance of the FW. I would think tracing of the FW should be levelled as circular, straight, serpentine. Are they? Moves in Field Similar to Sprials?

Ice Dance Anything based on the dance itself, e.g., Tango is more difficult than Rhumba?

Joe