2021-2022 US Women's Figure Skating

[yelyoh]

I don’t see any reason to send a lady who has zero international experience as a senior to the Olympics. But I’m not on the selection committee.

I am not talking about Worlds where the placement determines the number of participants for the following year. I am talking about an opportunity to be at the Olympics based on merit. I am not particularly stating a preference for Lindsay, but only if she is doing much better than other skaters, especially those who have had that Oly experience and are not doing well and continue to not do well. That's all! If "international experience" is what does it for you, great.

 

[R.D.]

Where are the golds? Lipinski, Hughes, Kwan and Meissner (fluke) all have gold medals at Worlds and/or Olympics between 1998-2006. It has been 15 years. Can we get one gold medal? One? One? And I love US ladies … But I'm frustrated that Russia-Japan is killing it. And for so long.

I was too for a bit post-2006, but in time I got over it. I’ve long accepted that we’re talking about a bygone era which will not return. I’m just indifferent now…it is what it is…and other things are more important to me…

 

[macy]

Polina Edmunds was sent in 2014 with zero senior international experience. the olympics were her very first major senior international competition. she did well enough the whole year and placed high enough at nationals the committee couldn't pass her over. she never even made junior worlds before.

if Lindsay keeps proving herself reliable internationally and places top 3 at nationals, i think she can do the same. however the field is deeper than in 2014- there were 3 other top contenders vs 5 this year.

 

[Moxiejan]

Polina Edmunds was sent in 2014 with zero senior international experience. the olympics were her very first major senior international competition. she did well enough the whole year and placed high enough at nationals the committee couldn't pass her over. she never even made junior worlds before.

And this is why the 2014 Olympic selection might NOT have been a decision between Mirai and Ashley.
It’s very likely that based on BOW, Gracie & Ashley already had been designated for the team (unless injured and/or melting down out of the Top 5) & that the choice was between Mirai and Polina.

Had the order of finish at Nationals been Gracie, Mirai, Polina and Ashley, the team probably would have been Gracie, Mirai & Ashley.

 

[macy]

And this is why the 2014 Olympic selection might NOT have been a decision between Mirai and Ashley.
It’s very likely that based on BOW, Gracie & Ashley already had been designated for the team (unless injured and/or melting down out of the Top 5) & that the choice was between Mirai and Polina.

Had the order of finish at Nationals been Gracie, Mirai, Polina and Ashley, the team probably would have been Gracie, Mirai & Ashley.

yeah i agree with this. it was easy to say it was between Mirai and Ashley because they finished 3rd and 4th but Ashley was always going to be on the team because of her BOW, where Mirai only managed one decent outing that season. Polina was the one that came out of nowhere and didn't have any senior BOW. it was between a skater who had no senior experience and a skater who didn't have a good BOW. Gracie and Ashley were always going.

 

[readernick]

And this is why the 2014 Olympic selection might NOT have been a decision between Mirai and Ashley

Percent. Weird that this is still being talked about but Ashley medalled at the GP final that year. She had placed above the eventual Olympic champion at that event. She was definitely going to be sent.

The choice was between Mirai and Polina. They went with Polina.

So, no senior BOW but stronger results at Nationals this year may also trump bad body of work...

 

[mrrice]

There is a big difference between juniors and seniors. Many who have great success on the junior level never make it as seniors.

Well, I remember when Richard Dornbush Captured the Silver behind Ryan Bradley in 2011. He was fresh off his win at the Junior GPF and he had to lengthen his program to make it Senior eligible and he was great. I think it's VERY possible for Lindsay to do the same thing.

 

[moonvine]

Polina Edmunds was sent in 2014 with zero senior international experience. the olympics were her very first major senior international competition. she did well enough the whole year and placed high enough at nationals the committee couldn't pass her over. she never even made junior worlds before.

if Lindsay keeps proving herself reliable internationally and places top 3 at nationals, i think she can do the same. however the field is deeper than in 2014- there were 3 other top contenders vs 5 this year.

Yes, Polina was sent and I’ve often thought that was a huge mistake. And still do.

 

[mrrice]

There is a big difference between juniors and seniors. Many who have great success on the junior level never make it as seniors.

This is true. I don't know what it is about Lindsay but, she seems very focused and ready for the big stage. She has great coaching and frankly, other than Alysa, which US Lady could defeat her if she skates clean programs?

 

[chuckm]

Lindsay is an extremely consistent skater as well as a strong competitor. Those are the qualities that made Bradie the top US senior over the past four years. If Bradie is too injured to perform well at Nationals, then Lindsay is the next best choice.

 

[mrrice]

Lindsay is an extremely consistent skater as well as a strong competitor. Those are the qualities that made Bradie the top US senior over the past four years. If Bradie is too injured to perform well at Nationals, then Lindsay is the next best choice.

I agree. Looking at the Base Value of the US Ladies, there's Alysa, a clean Bradie, and that's it. None of the other ladies has more than 1 3/3 and other than Alysa, I believe that Amber is the only lady to land one competition. Amber will be at the NHK Trophy and she can make a huge statement if she does well there.

 

[R.D.]

And this is why the 2014 Olympic selection might NOT have been a decision between Mirai and Ashley.
It’s very likely that based on BOW, Gracie & Ashley already had been designated for the team (unless injured and/or melting down out of the Top 5) & that the choice was between Mirai and Polina.

Had the order of finish at Nationals been Gracie, Mirai, Polina and Ashley, the team probably would have been Gracie, Mirai & Ashley.

Let’s be honest though…ANY 2014 US team with Wagner on it - as the 4th place finisher - was going to draw controversy.

 

[mrrice]

I agree that the lack of specific information is very ominous. It makes it seem like the injury is an ongoing problem.

Exactly.....The silence from her team has been, as they say, Deafening. We're not getting updates of her progress and that worries me.

 

[skatingiscool]

Katelyn Osmond was not a super skinny skater and she jumped amazingly well and even became world champion. I think the problem lies in the system set up for skating. In a way, it’s great that skaters can have longer careers now than before and skate into later years. Quads cannot be good on the body. It’s literally flinging yourself into the air 4x in a snap of a second and pounding onto ice.

Katelyn can't jump 3A and Quad. Katelyn won't be world champion if she was born later. Michelle Kwan won't be even in top 10 if she compete now. I agree with you that Quad is not good on body........but.....that's the ONLY way to win GOLD nowadays.

 

[skatingiscool]

Lindsay may not have the senior body of work but, she does have International Success which is something Amber never had as a Junior. If Lindsay makes the Podium, I would definitely send her. She has stronger technical content and scoring potential than every senior except Alysa.

There is a great chance for United States to win silver Team Event at Olympics this time. Besides Alysa, we need another "consistent" skater who can rotate triple triple in later half for the team event. I think Lindsay is the best choice if Bradie cannot return to her previous competitive form. Personally, I think it's too risky for Amber, Mariah or Karen to do any team event. International senior experience doesn't matter IMO.

 

[mrrice]

There is a great chance for United States to win silver Team Event at Olympics this time. Besides Alysa, we need another "consistent" skater who can rotate triple triple in later half for the team event. I think Lindsay is the best choice if Bradie cannot return to her previous competitive form. Personally, I think it's too risky for Amber, Mariah or Karen to do any team event. International senior experience doesn't matter IMO.

I agree 100%

 

[Moxiejan]

There is a great chance for United States to win silver Team Event at Olympics this time. Besides Alysa, we need another "consistent" skater who can rotate triple triple in later half for the team event. I think Lindsay is the best choice if Bradie cannot return to her previous competitive form. Personally, I think it's too risky for Amber, Mariah or Karen to do any team event. International senior experience doesn't matter IMO.

The U.S. could choose to have Alysa do both — especially if Nathan opts to do just the short (since men’s singles is first up after the team event).

 

[natsulian]

Highest Total International Scores of U.S. Women
1. Alysa Liu, 219.24 (S)
2. Isabeau Levito, 208.31 (J)
3. Karen Chen, 202.49 (S)
4. Amber Glenn, 201.02 (S)
5. Lindsay Thorngren, 193.77 (J)
6. Starr Andrews, 177.63 (S)
7. Ava Marie-Ziegler, 176.29 (J)
8. Clare Seo, 174.86 (J)
9. Audrey Shin, 172.46 (S)
10. Kate Wang, 170.93 (J)

Mariah Bell and Bradie Tennell have yet to compete on the Challenger or Grand Prix stages; therefore, it seems as if the U.S. will have seven serious contenders for the Olympic team. We'll know how Lindsay scores on the senior stage when she competes at Warsaw Cup.

 

[mrrice]

Katelyn can't jump 3A and Quad. Katelyn won't be world champion if she was born later. Michelle Kwan won't be even in top 10 if she compete now. I agree with you that Quad is not good on body........but.....that's the ONLY way to win GOLD nowadays.

This comment makes me think you might be quite young. Maria Butyrskaya Won 6 Russian Titles, 3 European Titles, and a World Championship with a 3-Toe, Half loop, Triple Sal as her most difficult combination. She would never have made the Russian World Team if she competed with that Combo as her "Big Element" with today's ladies. Skating evolves, just like everything else.

 

[dancelion21]

The U.S. could choose to have Alysa do both — especially if Nathan opts to do just the short (since men’s singles is first up after the team event).

I feel like the US will choose Alysa to do both since she's so much more consistent than every other US lady. Yes, the stakes are significantly lower in the free program since whichever US lady chosen will most likely be in a solid third place, behind the Russian lady and the Japanese lady, but ahead of the Canadian lady and the Chinese lady. Alysa has the chance to place ahead of the Japanese lady, which I would say none of the other American ladies have a chance of doing.

Further, since Karen and Amber are both inconsistent, there is a significant possibility that they don't skate well, and place below Maddie Schizas (Canada) in the free program, Maddie has scored ~124 at both of her major international events this season, whereas Karen and Amber have each had a bomb and a stellar program, with Karen scoring 114 twice and 135 once, while Amber has scored 123 and 133. Karen can certainly place below Maddie Schizas in the free program, while Amber also has that possibility. To avoid that risk, Alysa should do both programs, especially since Alysa is a very outside shot for an individual medal, and there's a lot of time between when the team events and when the women's competition starts, for her to fully recover her stamina.

The men's competition starts I think just a few days after the team competition concludes, so I think there's no way Nathan does both segments, and either Jason or Vincent would fill in very well for the free program (probably Vincent since he has the higher technical ceiling). The obvious choice would be to split dance, since H/D and C/B are both incredibly strong competitors (certainly more competitive in dance than any of the US ladies are), and there's also less time between the end of the team event and the dance event, so neither team will be too exhausted for the main individual competition. It's just a much safer play to have Alysa do both segments, maximize points, and split dance.