2021-2022 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[Lutzedge]

Artur Dmitriev Jr. on switching to the US for skating: (Russian article)

“In Russia, they didn’t see me as a promising athlete.” Quadruple Axel Jumping Skater Moves to US Team​

(I'm not responsible for Google translate saying he's jumping a quad axel. Actually the article says he is working on one. Or at least google translate does, since I don't read Russian. )

Dmitriev has attempted the quad axel and has landed quads in competition, but he didn't attempt any quads in the US series so far. I wonder if we will see him do a quad in competition this season.

 

[el henry]

Dmitriev has attempted the quad axel and has landed quads in competition, but he didn't attempt any quads in the US series so far. I wonder if we will see him do a quad in competition this season.

He talks about that in the article: given his long time off of the ice, he is not trying quads now, and I did not get the impression that he was aiming for one at US Nats, but he didn't commit:

For the state in which I was, at the moment this is a good result. Yes, there were mistakes, there were no quads, the content is not so high. But to come out three years later and compete is already a success for me. Of course, we will continue to increase the complexity, to get into shape. I have a reserve, now I need to train jumps and return to physical condition.

 

[moonvine]

I asked this in the Norwood thread but figured more people would see it here. On the Ice Talk podcast featuring Jimmy Ma he stated he “had to” compete at Norwood (I assume to make US Nationals) but he’s not entered. Does he have some sort of bye I don’t know about? He was only top 6 at Nationals so he doesn’t have a bye for that.

 

[ice coverage]

If you have a GP assignment, you are automatically qualified to Nationals. ...

Not true!!

---

I asked this in the Norwood thread but figured more people would see it here. On the Ice Talk podcast featuring Jimmy Ma he stated he “had to” compete at Norwood (I assume to make US Nationals) but he’s not entered. Does he have some sort of bye I don’t know about? He was only top 6 at Nationals so he doesn’t have a bye for that.

My guess(??) would be that at this point (altho' not at the time of recording the podcast) Jimmy has reason to believe that he will meet the criteria for an international bye.
Skate America and Warsaw Cup definitely count toward an international bye.
Not clear yet what would count as Jimmy's third event, but echoing my similar thoughts on Liu/O'Shea in the U.S. Pairs thread:

Maybe Jimmy is expecting to compete at Golden Spin?? Plus maybe USFS has decided that Golden Spin will count toward an international bye, even though it was not listed in the USFS bye document as of Jun 12?

Or ... another possibility would be that USFS decided on some date after Jun 12 to add Cranberry Cup and/or U.S. Classic to the list of internationals that count toward byes??​

 

[readernick]

Not true!!

I see. I will delete my reply then. I assumed this was the case because this is true in most other countries. I should not have assumed. However, very few skaters with GP assignments end up participating in the US qualifying series for nationals. I guess it is because they usually have three international assignments at GPs or challengers?

 

[mrrice]

How old is Dmitriev? If its the skater I'm thinking of, he's been around for quite a while. Is a threat to any of our top Men?

 

[el henry]

How old is Dmitriev? If its the skater I'm thinking of, he's been around for quite a while. Is a threat to any of our top Men?

He has been around a while. I think he is 28 or 29. He is certainly not a threat to Nathan, Vincent, Jason or Ilia. (Just to pull out the four who most seem to be talking about nowadays). He skated at the "US Championship" (what used to be kinda sorta Sectionals) in Leesburg, and in his current condition, (I watched on Peacock) he is not a threat to any top ten. But he acknowledges he has work to do.

Even assuming Nathan, Vincent and Jason retire after this year, again, without improvement, Dmitriev may go to International comps, but I cannot see him on the Worlds team. But stranger things have happened.

 

[moonvine]

Not true!!

---

My guess(??) would be that at this point (altho' not at the time of recording the podcast) Jimmy has reason to believe that he will meet the criteria for an international bye.
Skate America and Warsaw Cup definitely count toward an international bye.
Not clear yet what would count as Jimmy's third event, but echoing my similar thoughts on Liu/O'Shea in the U.S. Pairs thread:

Maybe Jimmy is expecting to compete at Golden Spin?? Plus maybe USFS has decided that Golden Spin will count toward an international bye, even though it was not listed in the USFS bye document as of Jun 12?

Or ... another possibility would be that USFS decided on some date after Jun 12 to add Cranberry Cup and/or U.S. Classic to the list of internationals that count toward byes??​

If nothing else I’m willing to bet USFS communicated to him he did not have to compete. As of the date of the interview he stated he would be competing in the Norwood comp a few days before leaving the country. Surely he didn’t just decide to not compete.

 

[ice coverage]

If nothing else I’m willing to bet USFS communicated to him he did not have to compete. As of the date of the interview he stated he would be competing in the Norwood comp a few days before leaving the country. Surely he didn’t just decide to not compete.

Yes, yes, yes -- you and I are on the same page.
In hindsight, when I said that my guess is that "Jimmy has reason to believe ...," it would have been more clear to say that my guess is that "USFS has given Jimmy reason to believe ..."

... However, very few skaters with GP assignments end up participating at Nationals. I guess it is because they usually have three international assignments at GPs or challengers?

Did you mean to say that very few skaters with GP assignments end up participating in the *USFS qualifying season for* Nationals??

Many skaters with GP assignments already have byes to Nats because they placed in top five at the previous year's Nats.
And/or they end up meeting the requirement of three GP/Challenger competitions, as you said.

 

[readernick]

Yes, yes, yes -- you and I are on the same page.
In hindsight, when I said that my guess is that "Jimmy has reason to believe ...," it would have been more clear to say that my guess is that "USFS has given Jimmy reason to believe ..."



Did you mean to say that very few skaters with GP assignments end up participating in the *USFS qualifying season for* Nationals??

Many skaters with GP assignments already have byes to Nats because they placed in top five at the previous year's Nats.
And/or they end up meeting the requirement of three GP/Challenger competitions, as you said.

I did mean that. I suppose I shouldn't be allowed to post from my phone and should restrict myself to a regular computer screen given how inaccurate my posts have been today. Yes, of course I had been aware of the top 5 from the previous nationals rule. But, I recalled several skaters who didn't place top 5 who were not required to participate in regionals in the past( currently the qualifying series) despite not being top 5. I assumed it was due to a GP assignment but apparently it must have been due to three international assignments. Does the US make frequent exceptions of this kind for skaters like Jimmy? Would it be possible for Jimmy to participate in a later qualifying event? I believe this is the 6th of 8 events. Aren't skaters allowed to participate in any one or two of the events? Or, are there regional restrictions?

 

[moonvine]

I did mean that. I suppose I shouldn't be allowed to post from my phone and should restrict myself to a regular computer screen given how inaccurate my posts have been today. Yes, of course I had been aware of the top 5 from the previous nationals rule. But, I recalled several skaters who didn't place top 5 who were not required to participate in regionals in the past( currently the qualifying series) despite not being top 5. I assumed it was due to a GP assignment but apparently it must have been due to three international assignments. Does the US make frequent exceptions of this kind for skaters like Jimmy? Would it be possible for Jimmy to participate in a later qualifying event? I believe this is the 6th of 8 events. Aren't skaters allowed to participate in any one or two of the events? Or, are there regional restrictions?

I don’t know about exceptions. Skaters were allowed to register for up to 2 qualifying competitions. I believe there are only two left - the Norwood one and the one in Alpharetta, and registration for all of them closed some time ago. There are no regional restrictions. For example Gracie participated in Leesburg and is participating in Alpharetta.

@ice_coverage help me out here…in the Regionals/Sectionals structure wasn’t there an exception for having an International competition at the time of your Regional/Sectional? For a skater of Jimmy’s current standing it was only going to be a formality so I can see why he would have only entered one competition. Maybe they wanted to get the team overseas faster for quarantine or something?

 

[ice coverage]

... Yes, of course I had been aware of the top 5 from the previous nationals rule. But, I recalled several skaters who didn't place top 5 who were not required to participate in regionals in the past( currently the qualifying series) despite not being top 5. I assumed it was due to a GP assignment but apparently it must have been due to three international assignments. Does the US make frequent exceptions of this kind for skaters like Jimmy? Would it be possible for Jimmy to participate in a later qualifying event? I believe this is the 6th of 8 events. Aren't skaters allowed to participate in any one or two of the events? Or, are there regional restrictions?

I don’t know about exceptions. Skaters were allowed to register for up to 2 qualifying competitions. I believe there are only two left - the Norwood one and the one in Alpharetta, and registration for all of them closed some time ago. There are no regional restrictions. For example Gracie participated in Leesburg and is participating in Alpharetta.

@ice_coverage help me out here…in the Regionals/Sectionals structure wasn’t there an exception for having an International competition at the time of your Regional/Sectional? For a skater of Jimmy’s current standing it was only going to be a formality so I can see why he would have only entered one competition. Maybe they wanted to get the team overseas faster for quarantine or something?

The reason I brought up top five from the previous year's U.S. Nats is that IIRC, the number of other U.S. skaters who receive GP assignments is usually well under five.
This year for U.S. men, it originally was two: Tomoki and Camden.
Jimmy later became the third in that group, but only after Yaro withdrew from the third Skate America slot.

Regarding the USFS bye document for 2022 Nats, I always have wondered whether it was/is just an accident that Golden Spin was omitted?
All the other Challengers are listed (except the Denis Ten event, to which USFS did not send any skaters).
So ... if USFS sends Jimmy to Golden Spin (as I suspect it will ), I myself would not really consider Jimmy to be an "exception."

I believe moonvine is correct that in past seasons, the a requirement to compete at a regional/sectional event was waived if it was a schedule conflict with a skater's international assignment.
But as I have been probably annoyingly fond of saying, this year's Championship Series has a different structure from regionals/sectionals (in more ways than one) -- so my two cents are that I am not inclined to think that a similar type of waiver is in play this season for Jimmy. But I am merely guessing.

(In addition to Norwood happening this week, there are two remaining Championship Series events: Alpharetta and Spokane both are next week.)

 

[moonvine]

The reason I brought up top five from the previous year's U.S. Nats is that IIRC, the number of other U.S. skaters who receive GP assignments is usually well under five.
This year for U.S. men, it originally was two: Tomoki and Camden.
Jimmy later became the third in that group, but only after Yaro withdrew from the third Skate America slot.

Regarding the USFS bye document for 2022 Nats, I always have wondered whether it was/is just an accident that Golden Spin was omitted?
All the other Challengers are listed (except the Denis Ten event, to which USFS did not send any skaters).
So ... if USFS sends Jimmy to Golden Spin (as I suspect it will ), I myself would not really consider Jimmy to be an "exception."

I believe moonvine is correct that in past seasons, the requirement to compete at a regional/sectional event was waived if it was a schedule conflict with a skater's international assignment.
But as I have been probably annoyingly fond of saying, this year's Championship Series has a different structure from regionals/sectionals (in more ways than one) -- so my two cents are that I am not inclined to think that a similar type of waiver is in play for Jimmy this season. But I am merely guessing.

(In addition to Norwood happening this week, there are two remaining Championship Series events: Alpharetta and Spokane both are next week.)

My thought was that entries have been closed for some time. But you’re probably right about Golden Spin.

Vincent has been competing a lot. Wonder if he will go to Golden Spin?

 

[el henry]

My thought was that entries have been closed for some time. But you’re probably right about Golden Spin.

Vincent has been competing a lot. Wonder if he will go to Golden Spin?

I doubt it. The Grand Prix final is scheduled at the same time as Golden Spin, IIRC.

 

[moonvine]

I doubt it. The Grand Prix final is scheduled at the same time as Golden Spin, IIRC.

Well that would be a no

 

[Apple1078]

Channel One in Russia is apparently considering a jump contest between their women and the U.S. men as part of their Channel One Cup:

Первый канал рассмотрит вопрос участия фигуристов из США на своем Кубке

Трехкратный чемпион мира по фигурному катанию Натан Чен и его тренер Рафаэл Арутюнян изъявили желание выступить на Кубке Первого канала 2022 года, телеканал... РИА Новости Спорт, 11.11.2021

rsport.ria.ru

This is probably a bad translation (Google translate) so bear with me:

Channel One will consider the participation of figure skaters from the United States in its Cup

MOSCOW, November 11 - RIA Novosti, Anatoly Samokhvalov. Three-time world figure skating champion Nathan Chen and his coach Rafael Harutyunyan expressed a desire to perform at the Channel One Cup in 2022, the TV channel will consider this proposal, RIA Novosti was informed in the Directorate of Public Relations of the First.

"In October, at the Skate America tournament, Nathan Chen and his coach Rafael Harutyunyan just expressed their desire to take part in the Channel One Cup next year, saying that such driving tournaments are the future of world figure skating. Channel One will pay attention to their proposal," said Olga Chernosvitova, head of the Directorate of Sports Broadcasting of Channel One.

 

[Tahuu]

Which team would win?

Team Russian Women:
Sasha, Kamila, Anna, Liza

Team American Men:
Nathan, Vincent, Ilia, Jason

Would be . Each team must and can only have one skater jump 4, 3, 2, 1 quads respectively to level the playing field.

 

[el henry]

Thanks for the link @Apple1078 .

unless there is a huuuuge payday (which there may well be) I can‘t imagine the top four US men going for this. After all, Raf only coaches one.

but who knows

 

[Apple1078]

Thanks for the link @Apple1078 .

unless there is a huuuuge payday (which there may well be) I can‘t imagine the top four US men going for this. After all, Raf only coaches one.

but who knows

I think the timing might be problematic, supposedly in March (I think?) and worlds is in March so....

 

[ladyjane]

I doubt it. The Grand Prix final is scheduled at the same time as Golden Spin, IIRC.

Golden Spin is usually a kind of B final to the GPF. So if you're entered but if you can go to the GPF you will WD from Golden Spin, and of course the other way round: if you're expecting to go to the GPF but it's not possible after all because you didn't reach the GPF, you go to Golden Spin instead. I don't expect Vincent (depending on how he does at NHK) or Nathan (already qualified for the GPF) to be there, but Jason might. I'd rather see Jason at GPF, but a medal at Golden Spin does count in relation to World Standing Points (just like Finlandia Trophy did). I'd love to see Jimmy at Golden Spin though. As well as some others.