2021-2022 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[yelyoh]

Haha so true! Considering how young the skaters often are I'm always impressed by their maturity, attitude and general sanity! They are rarely (if ever) loose cannons!

Vincent is lovely. I follow him on IG and he's just a hard working dude who hikes in the mountains. I'm always thinking "Don't get lost!!!"

Or sprain an ankle or meet Bigfoot. We need you Vincent!!!

 

[Lutzedge]

Rough day for Ilia.

 

[Jammers]

Jimmy is a nice skater but he's not going to finish high enough to keep 3 spots if he somehow went to Worlds and he's 27 not exactly the future of US men. Yes Ilia blew it here and inexperience and youthful pride is a thing he has to temper but you don't learn from these things sitting on the sidelines. Sometimes i think he wants it to much and rushes things but we saw the same thing from Vincent at the same age. Not everyone is Nathan Chen at 16.

 

[Lutzedge]

Jimmy is a nice skater but he's not going to finish high enough to keep 3 spots if he somehow went to Worlds and he's 27 not exactly the future of US men. Yes Ilia blew it here and inexperience and youthful pride is a thing he has to temper but you don't learn from these things sitting on the sidelines. Sometimes i think he wants it to much and rushes things but we saw the same thing from Vincent at the same age. Not everyone is Nathan Chen at 16.

I agree. He goes for these hard jumps, which we know he has a bag full of impressive and difficult jumps, especially quads. He also has quick entries into his jumps, which he doesn't set up a lot of time before jumping them (which isn't a bad thing, it's good and it makes them more impressive and difficult). When he gets them down, they look great. But when he messes them up and falls on them, it can look rushed.

 

[ice coverage]

@ice coverage just pointing out we have another Senior Man who I believe does have tech minimums, has quads and has been doing quite well in Senior International competitions.

If you think that my comments about Ilia were dismissive of anyone else, then you are mistaken.

I discussed the possibility of Ilia being chosen as one of three alternates for 2022 Worlds.
Even if (??) Ilia were to end up being chosen as one of them, there would be two other alternates.

There are several U.S. men other than Nathan/Vincent/Jason who already have the Senior minimums for 2022 Worlds.
One of them is our mutual favorite Jimmy Ma, and I am very happy that he has been having a good season.

Ilia did not get the Worlds SP minimum, so for now, it is not possible for him to actually compete at 2022 Worlds.
That said, he missed the minimum by only 0.22.
And it was only a handful of years ago that junior scores did count toward senior Worlds minimums. No longer true, but if it were, Ilia already would have far exceeded both SP and FS minimums for 2022 Worlds.
For me, it remains possible -- depending on what happens in the coming weeks/months -- that Ilia could be a worthwhile choice as an alternate to Worlds. (Whether first, second, or third alternate.)
But I never said that Ilia would be the only worthwhile choice to be an alternate to Worlds.

 

[moonvine]

Jimmy is a nice skater but he's not going to finish high enough to keep 3 spots if he somehow went to Worlds and he's 27 not exactly the future of US men. Yes Ilia blew it here and inexperience and youthful pride is a thing he has to temper but you don't learn from these things sitting on the sidelines. Sometimes i think he wants it to much and rushes things but we saw the same thing from Vincent at the same age. Not everyone is Nathan Chen at 16.

Not sure what you mean by “somehow” going to Worlds. Vincent and Nathan have both indicated they are going to retire or at least take time off after this Olympics. Camden is having some sort of issue. Not sure what is going on there. Say Ilia gets tech minimums that he doesn’t even have yet, you send him and who else?

I’m not going to try to be a fortune teller and decide who us or isn’t the future of US men. I’m going to enjoy what we have now.

Ilia has a load of potential no doubt. Not everyone even makes the transition from Junior to Senior successfully. I still believe putting pressure on young skaters by pushing them into situations they are unprepared for is ill advised.

Not that it is going to stop anyone.

 

[moonvine]

If you think that my comments about Ilia were dismissive of anyone else, then you are mistaken.

I discussed the possibility of Ilia being chosen as one of three alternates for 2022 Worlds.
Even if (??) Ilia were to end up being chosen as one of them, there would be two other alternates.

There are several U.S. men other than Nathan/Vincent/Jason who already have the Senior minimums for 2022 Worlds.
One of them is our mutual favorite Jimmy Ma, and I am very happy that he has been having a good season.

Ilia did not get the Worlds SP minimum, so for now, it is not possible for him to actually compete at 2022 Worlds.
That said, he missed the minimum by only 0.22.
And it was only a handful of years ago that junior scores did count toward senior Worlds minimums. No longer true, but if it were, Ilia already would have far exceeded both SP and FS minimums for 2022 Worlds.
For me, it remains possible -- depending on what happens in the coming weeks/months -- that Ilia could be a worthwhile choice as an alternate to Worlds. (Whether first, second, or third alternate.)
But I never said that Ilia would be the only worthwhile choice to be an alternate to Worlds.

I was just trying to tease you. I know you did not say that

 

[StitchMonkey]

Where has Vincent said he is taking time off after the Olympics? and Specifically that and not the season?

I really can not see him skipping worlds. With the retirements, he has very strong medal potential this year.

 

[moonvine]

Where has Vincent said he is taking time off after the Olympics? and Specifically that and not the season?

I really can not see him skipping worlds. With the retirements, he has very strong medal potential this year.

He said he was retiring. I now can’t remember if it was “after the Olympics” or “after this season.” He wants to finish school and enter the workforce.

 

[karne]

Ilia Malinin is clearly talented, but he's also only just sixteen and the transition to Seniors can be difficult, as he has just shown. Perhaps it would be wiser for people to stop laying all their hopes on him that he will bump off their least-favourite and create an all-quad Olympic team, and just let him develop.

I note the URs littering his protocol from last night, and that is very concerning for me. Hopefully, a fluke. Let's let him settle in and work on his technique, work on making sure he can rotate the quads. It will serve him better in the long run.

 

[SaDa]

He said he was retiring. I now can’t remember if it was “after the Olympics” or “after this season.” He wants to finish school and enter the workforce.

Hmm. I'm pretty sure when asked a few weeks ago(during an interview at Skate America, I think?) regarding stepping away for school after this season, I thought Vincent tried to correct that by saying he wasn't planning to step away at all...just that school would become his priority. I think that means he's still skating, just not putting all his focus on it like he has done in the past since his main focus will be on school. Why wouldn't he want to continue skating, especially with Nathan out of the picture?

Nathan is stepping away for sure. But again, stepping away doesn't mean retirement. He's keeping the door open because he said he would reassess after he finishes school, and I guess whether he ends up retiring or not will depend on how much he misses skating.

 

[StitchMonkey]

Ilia Malinin is clearly talented, but he's also only just sixteen and the transition to Seniors can be difficult, as he has just shown. Perhaps it would be wiser for people to stop laying all their hopes on him that he will bump off their least-favourite and create an all-quad Olympic team, and just let him develop.

I note the URs littering his protocol from last night, and that is very concerning for me. Hopefully, a fluke. Let's let him settle in and work on his technique, work on making sure he can rotate the quads. It will serve him better in the long run.

yes and we would all do well to remember that and give all skaters time to grow into seniors. The quadgods and the ones that don't have quads yet.

Honestly i think remembering this simple phrase would be wise for all in skating.

 

[sheetz]

I think the issue with Ilia is more nuanced than simply it being his senior debut. When the Russians withdrew Ilia probably became the favorite to win the entire event. That's a whole different ballgame than coming in as an underdog. Looking back at the Olympics most of the pressure Nathan was feeling was due to being a gold medal contender. Contrast that with Vincent who went into the Olympics with no expectations and was able to perform admirably. Now fast forward to this weekend when Vincent was arguably the favorite to win.

Incidentally, Ilia moved up to snag the bronze after today's FS.

 

[mrrice]

I guess Vincent has decided that it's his job to give me gray hair. Just when I think he's back and ready for the big time, he has a rough free skate in Japan. I am thrilled to see him hang on and get the Silver but, what I'm really hoping for is a strong showing at the GPF. I believe this finish gets him there, right?

 

[el henry]

I guess Vincent has decided that it's his job to give me gray hair. Just when I think he's back and ready for the big time, he has a rough free skate in Japan. I am thrilled to see him hang on and get the Silver but, what I'm really hoping for is a strong showing at the GPF. I believe this finish gets him there, right?

Nathan and Vincent, as well as Shoma, have qualified for the GPF.

 

[Tavi...]

I think the issue with Ilia is more nuanced than simply it being his senior debut. When the Russians withdrew Ilia probably became the favorite to win the entire event. That's a whole different ballgame than coming in as an underdog. Looking back at the Olympics most of the pressure Nathan was feeling was due to being a gold medal contender. Contrast that with Vincent who went into the Olympics with no expectations and was able to perform admirably. Now fast forward to this weekend when Vincent was arguably the favorite to win.

Incidentally, Ilia moved up to snag the bronze after today's FS.

I think you’re right that the pressure of expectations was a factor. Jet lag may have also played a part. But I’m not sure whether the Russians’ late withdrawal was the key factor. It seems to me that people have been buzzing about him and expecting a dazzling senior debut / medal of some kind for him here ever since he posted a huge score at a club competition, and that buzzing only increased after he posted an equally huge score in Leesburg.

I think the real question is how the pressure of expectations impacted his performances and the scoring here.

 

[el henry]

I agree with @Tavi...

The buzz around Ilia seemed to be (I may have gotten this wrong because I didn't share it) here is the skater with so many quads, so many more quads than Jason, up and coming, fearless 16 year old, nothing holding him back, watch out Jason!

And we have learned that Ilia is human and 16 years old and needs to learn to handle pressure. I don't blame him at all, this is part of the learning process. But placing too high expectations on a skater I'm not a fan.

All praise to Ilia for rebounding in the free. He still finished third behind Niki Eradze Nika Egadze and Lucas Tsuyoshi Honda. With all due respect to those hard-working skaters, can anyone imagine Jason on his very worst day finishing third behind them?

Experience counts.

 

[Lutzedge]

I agree with @Tavi...

The buzz around Ilia seemed to be (I may have gotten this wrong because I didn't share it) here is the skater with so many quads, so many more quads than Jason, up and coming, fearless 16 year old, nothing holding him back, watch out Jason!

And we have learned that Ilia is human and 16 years old and needs to learn to handle pressure. I don't blame him at all, this is part of the learning process. But placing too high expectations on a skater I'm not a fan.

All praise to Ilia for rebounding in the free. He still finished third behind Niki Eradze and Lucas Tsuyoshi Honda. With all due respect to those hard-working skaters, can anyone imagine Jason on his very worst day finishing third behind them?

Experience counts.

So Ilia was 3rd place? That's not bad. The Results and scores were not working on the internet.☹

 

[el henry]

So Ilia was 3rd place? That's not bad. The Results and scores were not working on the internet.☹

No, it's not bad at all, considering he didn't even get the SP minimums and had to bring himself up. I took the results from Sylvia on Twitter.

https://twitter.com/SylviaUnseen/status/1459551298928447502

As I said, I have no complaint at all against Ilia for his results. I am somewhat puzzled that such pressure was put on Ilia (from some, not all) to set the Senior world on fire and qualify for the Olympics *now*. Quad gods still need to skate in the comp, and not only in practice.

He has plenty of time beyond this season to find his rhythm as a senior. Perhaps this comp will help.

 

[karne]

After last night's FS, I would say a legitimate concern is that as soon as one thing goes wrong for Vincent, he immediately loses rotation. The tech panel were generous, but even that generosity couldn't stop his TES plummeting to 76 - and it should have gone lower. It was like he lost focus or resolve as soon as he popped that opening Lutz. Every single jump from then on was questionable at best.

Of course, the other very legitimate concern that came out of NHK was Camden and Tomoki proving why we're talking about the Olympic team as if it's already chosen. Even Mark Hanretty couldn't help but mention it.