2021-2022 U.S. Men's Figure Skating

[moonvine]

Really? Vincent just turned 21 three weeks ago. Jason will be 27 next month. I'd like to see Vincent continue, whatever this year's results are. I just love watching him skate. The kind of heart and soul Vincent shows is what skating is all about.

I'm surprised to see so many folks jumping in here to predict doom for Vincent, because I remember after Vincent's fabulous win at Skate America, it took several days for congratulatory posts to appear. Well, maybe most posters are like me, and only visit this thread sporadically.

There are people who don’t like Vincent personally and it bleeds over I think.

I got taken to task because I said I didn’t understand why he would retire when he’s worked so hard to get where he is. Not that he doesn’t have a right to.

 

[el henry]

There are people who don’t like Vincent personally and it bleeds over I think.

I got taken to task because I said I didn’t understand why he would retire when he’s worked so hard to get where he is. Not that he doesn’t have a right to.

I think these are two different issues.

1. Personal dislike of Vincent: I have criticized Vincent skating in the past and I may in the future. I have also found things to like about Vincent‘s skating. I do not personally dislike Vincent. I have seen no one here on GS show a *personal* dislike of Vincent, even as they may have criticisms.

It doesn’t matter to me what people say on other social media, because that cannot be attributed to any one particular poster on GS. People on social media say the most horrible things about Jason. But unless someone here at GS repeats those horrible statements, I do not attribute their criticism to the statements I have read elsewhere.

2. College: How one feels about Vincent’s plan to return to college may be influenced by one’s own experiences in college, and of course everyone has different experiences. I can say that my experience in college was definitely not “party hearty“ or a mere extension of high school. It was, not to be too dramatic, life-changing.

Based on my experiences, I can definitely understand why skaters like Vincent and/or Nathan would want to return to college, even as world class elite athletes, and I admire them for that decision. Of course, everyone brings a different perspective, which will influence that opinion.

 

[moonvine]

I think these are two different issues.

1. Personal dislike of Vincent: I have criticized Vincent skating in the past and I may in the future. I have also found things to like about Vincent‘s skating. I do not personally dislike Vincent. I have seen no one here on GS show a *personal* dislike of Vincent, even as they may have criticisms.

It doesn’t matter to me what people say on other social media, because that cannot be attributed to any one particular poster on GS. People on social media say the most horrible things about Jason. But unless someone here at GS repeats those horrible statements, I do not attribute their criticism to the statements I have read elsewhere.

2. College: How one feels about Vincent’s plan to return to college may be influenced by one’s own experiences in college, and of course everyone has different experiences. I can say that my experience in college was definitely not “party hearty“ or a mere extension of high school. It was, not to be too dramatic, life-changing.

Based on my experiences, I can definitely understand why skaters like Vincent and/or Nathan would want to return to college, even as world class elite athletes, and I admire them for that decision. Of course, everyone brings a different perspective, which will influence that opinion.

I didn’t mean anyone on this board specifically. There have been people in the past who have asked why Vincent was disliked by some (not necessarily on this board).

He at one time apparently “liked” some problematic tweets. I did not see the tweets. Social media is such a minefield. I know Nathan felt he had to issue an apology over something he said on social media.

He competed at Worlds when he knew before leaving for Worlds that he was injured, thus keeping a healthy skater from competing and putting the 3 spots in danger. He apologized for this and I believe him to be sincere.

I do not normally listen to the press conferences, but apparently he doesn’t come off as well as Keegan and Nathan do (which I would think would be impossible anyway)

To be clear I think these are ridiculous reasons to dislike a skater or any other person.

I can’t imagine anyone saying anything bad about Jason (or any other skater). To quote Ted Barton “why would you say something bad about a skater?”

As far as college goes, certainly our experiences color our opinions. I went to a state school and it wasn’t an academically rigorous one like UVA or UT either. I won’t bore you with details but my college experience entailed an awful lot of excesses in several different areas. So when people say they want a “normal college experience” that is what I picture.

 

[Sasha'sSpins]

I agree. Ilia is the future for the US Men. I don't see our current top 3 Nathan, Vincent, and Jason continuing until the games 2026. He's just got to get his competition nerves under control and he'll be fine.

Jason at 27 may decide not to go on thru 2026, but Nathan is only 22, and Vincent only 21. As long as they both stay healthy, and the desire is there, Nathan and Vincent can still carry on to 2026 if they choose to. Both are still very young.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Ilia did get the mins for 4CC. So he could get the SP mins for Worlds at 4CC.

 

[Joe Mendoza]

Vincent really needs to get his rotations. They were very costly here at NHK. He lands so firm and strong, and if the jumps were all rotated, he can definitely get some juicy GOE.

One can hope, but the feedback about his (under)rotations is not foreign to him, so if he has not figured it out by now, then it might just be a physical limitation or whatever new / enhanced techniques he's employing ain't doing the job.

 

[moonvine]

One can hope, but the feedback about his (under)rotations is not foreign to him, so if he has not figured it out by now, then it might just be a physical limitation or whatever new / enhanced techniques he's employing ain't doing the job.

He’s clearly been working very hard. His performance at Cranberry vs the other times I have seen him was night and day.

 

[readernick]

Sorry my post was confusing! I meant at one of the earlier competitions he had a panel with Shin Amano (sp?) and I think he got mostly Qs for that outing which was encouraging. Point is the under rotations, despite being a concern, are hopefully not going to be a habitual thing. He's fronted a more brutal tech panel and done better.

It was my problem! Sorry! I didn't read your post carefully. I do think that his URs were better at his previous competitions this year. You are right!

 

[Lutzedge]

Ilia did get the mins for 4CC. So he could get the SP mins for Worlds at 4CC.

That is a very good point.

 

[Lutzedge]

Jason at 27 may decide not to go on thru 2026, but Nathan is only 22, and Vincent only 21. As long as they both stay healthy, and the desire is there, Nathan and Vincent can still carry on to 2026 if they choose to. Both are still very young.

That seems right. I think Jason will make the Olympics, so I don't see him going through 2026. Nathan I believe might have mentioned taking a break after the Olympics, but I don't think he will retire. Vincent might be in a similar boat as Nathan. As you said, both are still very young. I think Michael Brezina and Alexei Bychenko, who are both over 30 years old, said they might or will retire after the 2018 Olympics, but they are still skating. Things can definitely change, but I think Nathan and Vincent may still keep skating.

 

[mrrice]

Really? Vincent just turned 21 three weeks ago. Jason will be 27 next month. I'd like to see Vincent continue, whatever this year's results are. I just love watching him skate. The kind of heart and soul Vincent shows is what skating is all about.

I'm surprised to see so many folks jumping in here to predict doom for Vincent, because I remember after Vincent's fabulous win at Skate America, it took several days for congratulatory posts to appear. Well, maybe most posters are like me, and only visit this thread sporadically.

Doom?? I love Vincent but, I thought he said that he may not continue past this season. I am happy to watch Vincent skate as long as he wants to be out there. If Nathan retires, Vincent will be the clear number 1 in the US and I wouldn't mind seeing him continue with that Brand on his back. He has yet to win Senior Nationals and that would be a huge accomplishment for him.

 

[skylark]

Doom?? I love Vincent but, I thought he said that he may not continue past this season. I am happy to watch Vincent skate as long as he wants to be out there. If Nathan retires, Vincent will be the clear number 1 in the US and I wouldn't mind seeing him continue with that Brand on his back. He has yet to win Senior Nationals and that would be a huge accomplishment for him.

Oh, sorry, mrrice, I didn't connect the word 'doom' with your remarks. 'Doom' isn't the right word anyway ... it's just that it struck me how negative so many of the remarks here about him were for a couple of pages, and I recalled vividly the radio silence when he won SA. Like you, I recall Vincent talking about resuming college. I assume he has options even then. I'd love to see him continue competing, partly because he represents a different style of skating and I like lots of diversity.

 

[moonvine]

Oh, sorry, mrrice, I didn't connect the word 'doom' with your remarks. 'Doom' isn't the right word anyway ... it's just that it struck me how negative so many of the remarks here about him were for a couple of pages, and I recalled vividly the radio silence when he won SA. Like you, I recall Vincent talking about resuming college. I assume he has options even then. I'd love to see him continue competing, partly because he represents a different style of skating and I like lots of diversity.

He really has worked very very hard. I’m very impressed by his improvements. He got a well deserved standing ovation after his SP at Cranberry.

 

[sheetz]

Vincent did backtrack on his earlier statements about retiring and did confirm that he wishes to continue skating. That said, he had previously indicated that the training conditions in and around Brown didn't allow him to train at the level he required, so I'm wondering what makes him think it will be any different when he returns?

Nathan was able to find facilities to suit his needs while at Yale, so in that respect his continuing is at least feasible.

 

[moonvine]

Vincent did backtrack on his earlier statements about retiring and did confirm that he wishes to continue skating. That said, he had previously indicated that the training conditions in and around Brown didn't allow him to train at the level he required, so I'm wondering what makes him think it will be any different when he returns?

Nathan was able to find facilities to suit his needs while at Yale, so in that respect his continuing is at least feasible.

Thank you for the update.

 

[skylark]

He really has worked very very hard. I’m very impressed by his improvements. He got a well deserved standing ovation after his SP at Cranberry.

You're so right to emphasize how hard Vincent has worked. (Even Shoma remarked on how he saw Vincent training!) I've seen improvement in his URs for a long time now. Some people get stuck and only watch for one thing. From Vincent's standing ovations at Skate America, it seems the audience there was impressed the way you were. Heck, I was standing and jumping around and screaming from home!

 

[moonvine]

You're so right to emphasize how hard Vincent has worked. (Even Shoma remarked on how he saw Vincent training!) I've seen improvement in his URs for a long time now. Some people get stuck and only watch for one thing. From Vincent's standing ovations at Skate America, it seems the audience there was impressed the way you were. Heck, I was standing and jumping around and screaming from home!

I think once a skater gets a reputation - good or bad - with the judges it can be really hard to overcome. (Well, a person wouldn’t want to overcome a good reputation, but you know what I mean.). “Skater Always Rotates” always rotates their jumps so they must have rotated that one as well” or “Skater Never Rotates” never rotates their jumps so they couldn’t possibly have rotated that one.” It’s human nature.

 

[Tinymavy15]

That seems right. I think Jason will make the Olympics, so I don't see him going through 2026. Nathan I believe might have mentioned taking a break after the Olympics, but I don't think he will retire. Vincent might be in a similar boat as Nathan. As you said, both are still very young. I think Michael Brezina and Alexei Bychenko, who are both over 30 years old, said they might or will retire after the 2018 Olympics, but they are still skating. Things can definitely change, but I think Nathan and Vincent may still keep skating.

I don't see Jason or Nathan skating after this season. Vincent on the other hand will likely want to enjoy a few seasons as the top US man and start making a true name for himself.

 

[skylark]

I really love seeing whenever two rivalling figure skaters support and admire each other, and verbalize that:

quoted from @goldenskate twitter:

#ShomaUno about #VincentZhou: "At SA Vincent was the one doing the most run-throughs. He probably worked the hardest of all of us during the off-season. I would love to see on how he trains, so I maybe could try to have the mental strength to do the same as him or even more."

And:

#VincentZhou about #ShomaUno: "I remember seeing Shoma skate the GP Final 16/17 - I was there as a Junior. I was so amazed by Shoma’s incredible skating. I watched his Free Program a lot at home. Competing against him is a childhood dream come true."

ETA: I like a Renaissance Man. Vincent's self-description on Twitter: "Figure skater, World medalist, Olympian, poet, existential contemplator, bookworm, nature & cat admirer."

 

[el henry]

.... I did not see the tweets. Social media is such a minefield. I know Nathan felt he had to issue an apology over something he said on social media.

...

Social media is a minefield, but I would just like to speak to this one sentence. I saw the original interview and I saw Nathan's apology. I believe Nathan apologized because he realized he misspoke and hurt some people with the way he misspoke. So if you are using the term "had to" in that Nathan realized he had hurt people and had to apologize, you are right. If you are using the term to say Nathan was somehow forced to apologize by social media reaction but didn't really mean it, that is not the case. I don't want to revisit the particulars, but I will say Nathan's genuine and heartfelt apology made me respect him even more.

And there is no such thing as a typical college experience. I remember an interview with Nathan (perhaps his more dedicated fans can link) where he said, well, yeah, I may be doing well in figure skating, but someone else in my college just won an Oscar. (College is Yale speak for dorm, very simplified). So that's "typical" for Nathan.

Particularly if Nathan reaches his Olympic goals, I just can't see him returning to full time competitive skating. Will he say definitively I'm hanging up my skates? I doubt it. But he has seen life after competitive skating, and he appears to be ready for it. Frankly, that approach impresses the heck out of me.