2021-22 Russian Women's Figure Skating

[eterialskating]

Can't wait to see Muravieva in Team Eteri. That will certainly push Plushenko over the edge if not already with this pathetic attempt at undermining Rus Fed selection because of Eteri pupils sweeping the podium. I think it's time Rusfed implement a more sane selection process than having the current WC and 3 time defending National champion having to defend her position over some third rate competition.

 

[Thrashergurl]

Who else does that as a coach in Russia or any other country mentioning the name of the top or one of the top skaters at another camp negatively about scores? Eteri? Borser? Mishin? Moskvina? Any Japanese coach? Nope. Plushy would do better if he followed the lead of his mentor the professor.

I would say Plushenko is off to a good start in his coaching career after only a few years. But the powers that be will gang up on him if hes not careful even though he was one of the greatest of all time as a figure skater. He has a great group of girls who will probably do a great things in the next couple of years. At times some of them will be overscored like all top figure skaters are and I hope no other coaches single out a skater from his camp and pointing out how they were over scored humiliating that girl in front of the world like he did Anya right before Europeans and the Olympics.

EG will remember this and have her girls ready for junior Russian nationals.
That should be interesting. Plushy does not have to skate against Sofia Akatieva out for blood! But his girls do.Good luck with that.

I just hope people aren't gonna start complaining about SA's scores too.

I’m not speaking of other skaters when I stated Anna hasn’t skated well this season. I’m speaking of Anna and what she has put on the ice this season. She has regressed from last season and I don’t think anyone can deny that. I’m only comparing Anna to herself.

I’m not sure if I quoted the correct post. Sorry. My phone acts up and has a mind iof it’s own.

I’ve heard reporters ask many skaters about a mediocre skate being rewarded by the judges (I specifically remember Kwan being asked after a reporter thought she was overscored at a competition). I’m not implying Anna asked for this question to be asked, I stated she seemed to expect to be asked about her skate because she knew she didn’t skate well. She said so herself.

It was nice to see Kamila and Sasha being supportive. Kamila seems to be a very humble champion and that’s very admirable considering she’s probably one of the best skaters we’ve seen in a very long time. She is amazing.

I’m certain all the talk of Anna not deserving her podium placement and questioning why there’s not a skate off will only motivate her. By all accounts she’s a quiet competitor. She will let others get the attention and then strike out of nowhere. I’m sure it’s not over for Anna

 

[Fried]

(...) I think it's time Rusfed implement a more sane selection process than having the current WC and 3 time defending National champion having to defend her position over some third rate competition.

Apart from the fact that this runs diametrically against the maxim of the "great coach": Can Anna be given a worse indictment than you just did? I do not think so. One more question. In which class does a world champion and three-time national champion run who must be protected from losing to third-class competitors?

 

[Azikin]

I’m not speaking of other skaters when I stated Anna hasn’t skated well this season. I’m speaking of Anna and what she has put on the ice this season. She has regressed from last season and I don’t think anyone can deny that. I’m only comparing Anna to herself.

Still doesn't make much sense to me. Two GP victories mean that she "hasn't skated well"? And that she's been struggling with quads more than usual, well, everyone has problems with quads sometimes, even Nathan is not perfect all the time... so any other signs of regression?

 

[halulupu]

Can’t speak for anyone else, but Anna and Trusova are 2 different people.

Liza beat Trusova at the world championships head up. Liza never beat Anna in any competition this year.

Anna is better than Liza, and up until this weekend, Liza was better than Trusova.

But Liza was worse than both this weekend, so it’s case closed. No skate offs are needed.

I agree. I did some rescoring and even if you give anna more fair/international score she is sill ahead of liza. And I did not even consider that liza herself was overscored in the sp. Liza for whatever reason couldn't do a 3-3, always has and had been her biggest issue. While Anna doing 3 differnet 3-3

 

[Thrashergurl]

Still doesn't make much sense to me. Two GP victories mean that she "hasn't skated well"? And that she's been struggling with quads more than usual, well, everyone has problems with quads sometimes, even Nathan is not perfect all the time... so any other signs of regression?

I’m not speaking about Nathan or comparing Anna with others. Can you deny her skating has regressed as compared to her skating last year? She did win her 2 Events, but she was in the easiest events.

We could go round and round, but seems people want to compare her with others and even the men, but I’m comparing her only to herself.

 

[flanker]

I’m not speaking about Nathan or comparing Anna with others. Can you deny her skating has regressed as compared to her skating last year? She did win her 2 Events, but she was in the easiest events.

We could go round and round, but seems people want to compare her with others and even the men, but I’m comparing her only to herself.

So when she reached her new PB in the free skate it means she regressed, right. That's just comparing her with herself.

BTW, comparison is a perfectly usual scientific method, esp. valuable when someone tries to make unusual of usual.

 

[vorravorra]

Plushy was great in his day but he is not a great coach. Zinina's layout in the free was just bad. Going for two 4T's when she has never landed a single one. Going for one is gutsy (like Sinitsyna did!), but everyone knows that if you don't land the first quad you don't go for the same quad again. The +REP you get if you miss makes it worthless. Zinina got after fall deductions 2.80 points for the first quad and -0.16 for the second one. Yes, she actually got negative points for the second quad attempt. That is the sum of 2.64 points for two jumping passes. As opposed to two 3+3's that Zinina can do which would get her about 25 points.
Then she got stressed and tried to add a combination later in the program which made her fall a 3rd time. All because of the bad layout of the program.
There is clearly a lack of a Plan B in Plushy's coaching.

What are you talking about? Zinina has landed 4Ts before, including two 4Ts in Krasnoyarsk. Moreover, she landed two 4Ts in the warmup before her free skate.

 

[lurkerghost1]

Misha has only 4s and 4t, and often in competition he falls or pops at least one of them. At this last Russian Nationals, he popped the axel to 1a in the SP, and in the FS he popped the 3rd intended quad, a 4t to a 3t.
At GP Italy, in the SP, he fell on the solo 4t, which was landed on the quarter. In the FS, he stepped out of the 4s, and again on the solo 4t.
At Rostelecom, In the SP he stepped out of the 4s, then fell on the 4t, so had no combination jump. In the FS, he fell on the opening 4s, and stepped out of the 4t, putting a hand down.
Skating fans remember such flawed performances. I can't remember the last time Misha skated two clean programs in one event. Certainly he has yet to do so this year. Perhaps that is the reason for the comment about overscoring.
Nathan Chen does a variety of quads, including 4z, 4f, 4s and 4t. He had a TES of 107.68 in the FS at Skate Canada. Compare that to Misha's 93.86 TES in the FS at Nationals, 92.52 at Rostelecom, and 93.47 at GP Italy.
You say Misha is better than Chen and Hanyu. The record does not support that.
Yuzuru Hanyu has won 2 OGMs (2014 and 2018), two World Championships, and 4 GPF gold. He won 2020 4 Continents gold.
Nathan Chen has won the last three World Championships and the last 3 GPF golds. He won 4 Continents gold in 2017.
Misha has one World medal, a bronze, from 2018 Worlds. In 2019 he was 6th, and 2021, 5th. He went to one GPF in 2017 and won bronze. He has never won the European Championship; he has two bronze medals from 2017 and 2018.
Misha has been the best Russian man over the past quadrennial, but sorry, he just isn't nearly on the same level as Hanyu and Chen.

 

[Fluture]

Plushy was great in his day but he is not a great coach. Zinina's layout in the free was just bad. Going for two 4T's when she has never landed a single one. Going for one is gutsy (like Sinitsyna did!), but everyone knows that if you don't land the first quad you don't go for the same quad again. The +REP you get if you miss makes it worthless. Zinina got after fall deductions 2.80 points for the first quad and -0.16 for the second one. Yes, she actually got negative points for the second quad attempt. That is the sum of 2.64 points for two jumping passes. As opposed to two 3+3's that Zinina can do which would get her about 25 points.
Then she got stressed and tried to add a combination later in the program which made her fall a 3rd time. All because of the bad layout of the program.
There is clearly a lack of a Plan B in Plushy's coaching.

First, someone has already told you but Zinina has landed quads with positive GOE in national and international competition before, this very season even. Secondly, you mean the same bad layout with two 4T used by Maiia Khromykh at Warsaw Cup?

https://page.pfsa.com.pl/results/2122/CSPOL21/cspol21_Women_FS_Scores.pdf

One that, might I mention, caused her to have the same +REP problem Zinina had at Nationals. Now, remind me again who coaches Maiia?

Anyway, Plushenko‘s made a lot of moronic coaching decisions last season but so far, he‘s been doing better. For example, he didn‘t include the 3A+3T in Zhilina‘s SP layout on the JGP, unlike Samodelkina‘s coach, which caused her to miss JGPF qualification. When he overloaded Muravieva‘s FS at the Russian Cup, causing her to meltdown, he reduced the content at Nationals to only two 3A. You don‘t have to like him (god knows I don‘t) but credit where credit is due. He‘s actually improved this season and is doing very well with his junior skaters.

(Now watch me jinx it so he goes back to making idiotic mistakes again )

 

[Scott512]

Can't wait to see Muravieva in Team Eteri. That will certainly push Plushenko over the edge if not already with this pathetic attempt at undermining Rus Fed selection because of Eteri pupils sweeping the podium. I think it's time Rusfed implement a more sane selection process than having the current WC and 3 time defending National champion having to defend her position over some third rate competition.

Strong words! You are just stoking the fires about Sonya M!

And I think that Sofia already skated for EG nnd was rejected.

We agree on they should find a more sane selection process than someone holding 3 unbelievably difficult national titles and a world championship was in jeopardy from getting dropped from the team if she finished outside the top 3 of seniors.

 

[Scott512]

I’m not speaking of other skaters when I stated Anna hasn’t skated well this season. I’m speaking of Anna and what she has put on the ice this season. She has regressed from last season and I don’t think anyone can deny that. I’m only comparing Anna to herself.

I’m not sure if I quoted the correct post. Sorry. My phone acts up and has a mind iof it’s own.

I’ve heard reporters ask many skaters about a mediocre skate being rewarded by the judges (I specifically remember Kwan being asked after a reporter thought she was overscored at a competition). I’m not implying Anna asked for this question to be asked, I stated she seemed to expect to be asked about her skate because she knew she didn’t skate well. She said so herself.

It was nice to see Kamila and Sasha being supportive. Kamila seems to be a very humble champion and that’s very admirable considering she’s probably one of the best skaters we’ve seen in a very long time. She is amazing.

I’m certain all the talk of Anna not deserving her podium placement and questioning why there’s not a skate off will only motivate her. By all accounts she’s a quiet competitor. She will let others get the attention and then strike out of nowhere. I’m sure it’s not over for Anna

It's an interesting topic about Anna's regression. I don't know how clear cut it is because because she won her 2 GP events this season. We didn't get a chance to see how she would do in GPF.

no doubt Anna's best ever skating was one year ago at nationals coming off illness she was fantastic. If you mean she hasn't been at that level since then that's true. But Alina and Zhenya never got back to the level they were at at the Olympics in 2018. They were truly fantastic in that Olympics and never quite got back to that level again even though AZ won worlds over a year later.

For me I would have had no problem if Anna fell behind SS and Adelia at nationals. I don't think for a second that should have disqualified annual from The Europeans or Olympics but I guess the federation thought that would be the talk. At this point hopefully Anna will be better at Europeans yet feelings then she was at the recent nationals I expect it to be the case unless she's injured.

It seems to me that KV will be a dream type of champion everybody will like her even if they don't like her skating per se. Is everybody like sasha even if they aren't thrilled with her skating and all the quads. She really is a friend of Anna's.

 

[Jontor]

First, someone has already told you but Zinina has landed quads with positive GOE in national and international competition before, this very season even. Secondly, you mean the same bad layout with two 4T used by Maiia Khromykh at Warsaw Cup?

https://page.pfsa.com.pl/results/2122/CSPOL21/cspol21_Women_FS_Scores.pdf

One that, might I mention, caused her to have the same +REP problem Zinina had at Nationals. Now, remind me again who coaches Maiia?

Anyway, Plushenko‘s made a lot of moronic coaching decisions last season but so far, he‘s been doing better. For example, he didn‘t include the 3A+3T in Zhilina‘s SP layout on the JGP, unlike Samodelkina‘s coach, which caused her to miss JGPF qualification. When he overloaded Muravieva‘s FS at the Russian Cup, causing her to meltdown, he reduced the content at Nationals to only two 3A. You don‘t have to like him (god knows I don‘t) but credit where credit is due. He‘s actually improved this season and is doing very well with his junior skaters.

(Now watch me jinx it so he goes back to making idiotic mistakes again )

Yes my selective memory totally forgot about Zinina's previous 4Ts.

And don't get me started on Davydov, and he's 3A combo in the short.

And yes, both Khromykh and Kostornaia had some +REP/Zayaking problems this season because of bad Plan B's.

I guess it means that all coaches are baaad!

 

[Fluture]

Strong words! You ard just stoking the fires about Sonya M!

We agree on they should find a more sane selection process than someone holding 3 unbelievably difficult national titles and a world championship was in jeopardy from getting dropped from the team if she finished outside the top 3 of seniors.

The funny thing is that Muravieva tried out with Eteri but they didn‘t take her/rejected her. She was actually coachless for a while and went to Plushenko because he was willing to give her a chance and she had no other option. And now she‘s landing 3As in competition. Whatever one thinks of the coaches involved, you have to give credit to Sofia for not giving up despite the odds being stacked against her.

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55:30. This is her at 2020 Junior Nationals - note how she‘s sitting alone in the K&C.

As for the rest of your post. No. The selection process is fine. Your past results shouldn’t mean anything if you aren‘t good enough in the moment. They didn‘t put Sotnikova or Lipnitskaya - Olympic Champions! - on the world team in 14-15, or Tuktamysheva in 15-16 after she won everything the season before. Same for Kosto last year. Why would the rules suddenly change for Anna? She was the third best senior here, so she‘s on the team. But if Tuktamysheva hadn‘t bombed the short or one of the three juniors had been age eligible (and thus scored more fairly), she wouldn‘t have made it and it would have been completely fair that way.

 

[starlight97]

Can't wait to see Muravieva in Team Eteri. That will certainly push Plushenko over the edge if not already with this pathetic attempt at undermining Rus Fed selection because of Eteri pupils sweeping the podium. I think it's time Rusfed implement a more sane selection process than having the current WC and 3 time defending National champion having to defend her position over some third rate competition.

I agree that Anna belongs on the Team over Tuktamysheva or anybody else in question to replace her, but because of her results this season and her current scoring potential, NOT because of any past titles. Past titles mean absolutely nothing in sport. They are not representative of an athlete's current form whatsoever.
To illustrate, if this was about past titles, out of the currently available skaters Kostornaya, GPF and Euro champion should be on the team over Kamila, a junior in her very first senior season. Which would be an obviously ridiculous suggestion.
As much as I dislike Irina Viner and her management of Rhythmic Gymnastics, she has one very famous quote, that is in fact much repeated by her students and also some of the girls in figure skating:
"When you're on the podium, you're a queen. As soon as you step down from it, you are nobody." You can never rest on your past accomplishments.

 

[icybear]

Can't wait to see Muravieva in Team Eteri. That will certainly push Plushenko over the edge if not already with this pathetic attempt at undermining Rus Fed selection because of Eteri pupils sweeping the podium. I think it's time Rusfed implement a more sane selection process than having the current WC and 3 time defending National champion having to defend her position over some third rate competition.

Last time I checked, past accolades doesnt give you entitlement to be on the podium. By your logic, Evgenia shouldnt have gone to the 2016 WC becuase Sotnikova was olympic champion and Elizaveta was the reigning WC. Competition is based on what you have to give on that day and Anna was a shadow of herself.

 

[norwegianfairytale]

I agree. I did some rescoring and even if you give anna more fair/international score she is sill ahead of liza. And I did not even consider that liza herself was overscored in the sp. Liza for whatever reason couldn't do a 3-3, always has and had been her biggest issue. While Anna doing 3 differnet 3-3

What are you talking about? Liza landed her 3-3 combo clean in all 3 SP internationally this season. Why are you using Nationals as a parametre for what she has done earlier this season? It is really unfair, considering that Anna actually had combo issues in 2 of 3 SP this season internationally.

 

[Scott512]

The funny thing is that Muravieva tried out with Eteri but they didn‘t take her/rejected her. She was actually coachless for a while and went to Plushenko because he was willing to give her a chance and she had no other option. And now she‘s landing 3As in competition. Whatever one thinks of the coaches involved, you have to give credit to Sofia for not giving up despite the odds being stacked against her.

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55:30. This is her at 2020 Junior Nationals - note how she‘s sitting alone in the K&C.

As for the rest of your post. No. The selection process is fine. Your past results shouldn’t mean anything if you aren‘t good enough in the moment. They didn‘t put Sotnikova or Lipnitskaya - Olympic Champions! - on the world team in 14-15, or Tuktamysheva in 15-16 after she won everything the season before. Same for Kosto last year. Why would the rules suddenly change for Anna? She was the third best senior here, so she‘s on the team. But if Tuktamysheva hadn‘t bombed the short or one of the three juniors had been age eligible (and thus scored more fairly), she wouldn‘t have made it and it would have been completely fair that way.

SMs rise has been amazing in the last year. She's really good at figure skating and that she's had some tough times and got rejected by EG has only made her tougher and hungrier. She didn't quit after getting rejected she got better.

In this video at junior nationals maybe her coach was with the next skater up and that's why she wasn't with her in the KNC.

Do you think Anna is worthy of being on the Olympic tean representing Russia or FCR or OAR or whatever they are?

Anna is the 2nd most clutch Russian lady skater of all time and that was factored into the process just as her complex programs are part of the decision. Meanwhile people have been talking about for years how Liza and the professor put together programs that miss opportunities to score more points. And many of us think how can one of the legendary approaches of all time it's time let this happen?

Injuries sickness and positive coronavirus tests names Liza has to be ready to go. And if a couple of the smaller countries don't send skaters to the Olympics because of the virus then that will open up a couple spots for a sp for alternates to skate and that's why Liza would Be rewarded for being the number one alternate in the world. Like I said whether she skates in Beijing or not Elizaveta has to be 100% ready to go like she is going to skate.

I'm not saying body of work should count for everything but there's not like there was a big difference between Liza and Anna in liza's favor. And while people talk about Anna's score being too high Lizas score was too high after the SP.

If you want to say it was close and basically tied between Liza and Anna that's fine. That's where the body of work comes in to play as the tiebreaker. You're not gonna choose someone in Russia who hasnt won a medal at Russian nationals in 7 years over someone who won 3 Russian nationals in a row and is the current world champion. It's a tough break for Liza but she needed go wipe Anna out at rusnats. That did not happen and Anna was basically on the team after the SP. If Liza had a very good short it would have been much more interesting.

As for the selection process I think it can be better. The Russian federation will send a great ladies team and Anna will skate the SP and KV will skate the free. So much for sasha being number 2 huh? It didnt last long. But good luck to them all it's the opportunity of a lifetime if coronavirus allows the Olympics to take place.

 

[McBibus]

Whit all the love and respect for Liza, any hipotesys of her being selected over an healty Anna is ridiculous.
SHe had the chance offered by an under par Anna and she failed to catch.
Forget Anna scoring because is not so important: It was Liza's moment to shine adn make the choice difficult and the result was both the worst SP and FS of the season while Shasha did raise to the challenge.
Being the one in charge to select the team I would have no doubt at all: I would just ask Anna and Sasha "are you ok? Are ready to o and give me 100?" and if they say "yes" Liza would be on the bench.
(If Kami can walk I would put her on the ice even if not 100%: she gained the right to be the one telling me "I'm not ok to go")

 

[Fluture]

SMs rise has been amazing in the last year. She's really good at figure skating and that she's had some tough times and got rejected by EG has only made her tougher and hungrier. She didn't quit after getting rejected she got better.

In this video at junior nationals maybe her coach was with the next skater up and that's why she wasn't with her in the KNC.

I remember there being talk about her not having an official coach at the time. I think she was skating at CSKA but without real guidance. Anyway, I don‘t remember that part, so it might be wrong. But I am certain that she was rejected by Eteri after a trial because she talked about it in an interview this season.

Do you think Anna is worthy of being on the Olympic tean representing Russia or FCR or OAR or whatever they are?

Yes. Because she was the third best senior here. I disagree with her beating the juniors because I think all three did better on everything other than the IN and PE parts of the components scores (meaning, jump difficulty and execution, spins, steps, skating skills).

But if it‘s between her and Liza, which it was, she‘s clearly ahead. Anna was overscored alright but Liza herself received seriously overinflated marks - especially in PCS. And she completely bombed the SP, too. Anna may not be my favorite skater but she is consistent and reliable and deserves to be on the Olympic team.

And if a couple of the smaller countries don't send skaters to the Olympics because of the virus then that will open up a couple spots for a sp for alternates to skate and that's why Liza would Be rewarded for being the number one alternate in the world.

No. That‘s not how it works. Countries have a selected number of spots and that‘s it. There‘s no scenario in which Russia will send four skaters to compete in the women‘s event in Beijing.

As for the selection process I think it can be better. The Russian federation will send a great ladies team and Anna will skate the SP and KV will skate the free. So much for sasha being number 2 huh? It didnt last long. But good luck to them all it's the opportunity of a lifetime if coronavirus allows the Olympics to take place.

That strategy makes no sense. Why would they let anyone but Kamila do the short if she‘s the only one with a reliable 3A? Not to mention the fact that she‘s the best bet for an individual OGM, so they won‘t want to tire her out by having her do the FS with her insane technical content. Also, Anna’s SP hasn’t been as consistent as Kamila’s this season, even without the 3A. She’s made mistakes on her combination more than once. As for the rest — after winning Silver at Nationals Sasha is, for now, the number two in the Russian team. Anna can reclaim that place at the Europeans but we’ll have to wait and see. A lot can change in a month - or did anyone expect Sasha to end up ahead of Anna heading into Nationals? I certainly didn‘t.