US Olympic Team Announced

[bekalc]

Yes the Russian fed takes into account other factors. But the idea that they wouldn’t happily dump quadless Brown for Ilia is laughable.

And the whole Jason was 7 because everyone skated well is exactly the point. If other skaters skate well Jason does not have the technical goods to compete.

 

[moonvine]

So if USFSA is feeling the heat, I'm not sad about that.

They would be feeling the heat regardless of their decision. People are still complaining about Adam being picked over Ross. And if they had taken Ross over Adam some would probably also be complaining about that.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Well I'm pretty sure the real argument is not that Jason should stay home, but that Vincent - the perennial punching bag - should have been dumped.

If you think Jason's gonna get blowback...these people will make life Hell for Vincent and I'm not sure what will make them nastier...if he does well (Overscored! Jump drill! Under-rotations!) or if he does poorly (Choker! Loser! Waste of space!) or even if he does alright (Ilia would have done better! Waste of a spot! Still overscored!).

 

[TontoK]

You are right, he certainly will, or should, have more influence than online trolls. If he really thinks the rules should be changed, he should work for that.

As @karne correctly pointed out, he did not complain about the rules when they benefited his skater. I think USFS might take that into account, but who knows. Certainly not me

I have no idea what the contributer you referenced said. That's not an accident.

As you know, I did not support the Ross/Adam decision - I've been consistent.

 

[florin]

I am more interested in the question of possible national bias. The above interview was not quoted from the very beginning. I have a feeling that Raf is hinting at national bias

"To be honest, I don't even have the words to describe to what extent I am outraged. The point here is absolutely not that I worked with Ilya and did everything possible for him to achieve such a level of result. I have never engaged in protectionism against the athletes I work with, and I certainly am not going to do it now.

But Ilya is the second in the national championship. The second one!!! And with a breakaway. Yes, he is not old enough, only 17, but he is potentially the future of the country in which he lives. He has a Russian name and a Russian surname, but he is American. And the fact that he was not included in the Olympic team indicates, in my opinion, a blatantly unprofessional approach."

and then, what was quoted above. I'm sorry if I can offend anyone or it seems that I can troll, but I can't stop thinking that Ilya could have been prevented by his nationality - it's no secret that a) Americans have a negative idea of Russians, b) OG is a competition watched by millions of people who are usually not interested in figure skating and the Olympic team is perceived by the masses as a direct presentation of the country.

 

[bekalc]

He could absolutely win the SP, though, which is where people are saying he's needed - if either Chen or Zhou will bomb a program, it'll be the short.

Having Chen skate both segments when the Men's FP is all of two days before the individual SP is a bad idea, and would honestly just amount to handing Hanyu a third gold medal.

But it makes more sense to put up Vincent. The lowest One can get is fifth in the finals. and reasonably Keenan whoever the second Japanese man is, Kolyoda, can all beat him if they skate well.

They might as well go for broke with Vincent. I would argue why not send Ilia he might put up a huge TES and may get decent PCs.

 

[TontoK]

I am more interested in the question of possible national bias. The above interview was not quoted from the very beginning. I have a feeling that Raf is hinting at national bias

"To be honest, I don't even have the words to describe to what extent I am outraged. The point here is absolutely not that I worked with Ilya and did everything possible for him to achieve such a level of result. I have never engaged in protectionism against the athletes I work with, and I certainly am not going to do it now.

But Ilya is the second in the national championship. The second one!!! And with a breakaway. Yes, he is not old enough, only 17, but he is potentially the future of the country in which he lives. He has a Russian name and a Russian surname, but he is American. And the fact that he was not included in the Olympic team indicates, in my opinion, a blatantly unprofessional approach."

and then, what was quoted above. I'm sorry if I can offend anyone or it seems that I can troll, but I can't stop thinking that Ilya could have been prevented by his nationality - it's no secret that a) Americans have a negative idea of Russians, b) OI is a competition watched by millions of people who are usually not interested in figure skating and the Olympic team is perceived by the masses as a direct presentation of the country.

I saw that in the article, but I had no idea what he was getting at here... I think this was pulled from an interview he was doing, so I thought it must have been in response to a question... as in "Yes he has a Russian name, but he is American, not Russian."

There's a lot lost in translation. I very seriously doubt that his ethnicity had anything to do with the selection or that Raf was implying that... is that what you think he was trying to say?

I think the real issue is that they didn't want to leave Jason off the team. If he'd finished ahead of Vincent, I wonder if they'd have chosen Ilia over Vincent - a move that would have had far less justification than the decision they made? I guarantee there would have been far less discussion over Vincent's merits.

 

[soccerjc77]

All I have to say, is that I need to accept the fate. Congratulation to Jason ! And, I'm really sorry for Ilia, I have nothing more to say, may God's find a solution for this situation

 

[lariko]

I am more interested in the question of possible national bias. The above interview was not quoted from the very beginning. I have a feeling that Raf is hinting at national bias

"To be honest, I don't even have the words to describe to what extent I am outraged. The point here is absolutely not that I worked with Ilya and did everything possible for him to achieve such a level of result. I have never engaged in protectionism against the athletes I work with, and I certainly am not going to do it now.

But Ilya is the second in the national championship. The second one!!! And with a breakaway. Yes, he is not old enough, only 17, but he is potentially the future of the country in which he lives. He has a Russian name and a Russian surname, but he is American. And the fact that he was not included in the Olympic team indicates, in my opinion, a blatantly unprofessional approach."

and then, what was quoted above. I'm sorry if I can offend anyone or it seems that I can troll, but I can't stop thinking that Ilya could have been prevented by his nationality - it's no secret that a) Americans have a negative idea of Russians, b) OG is a competition watched by millions of people who are usually not interested in figure skating and the Olympic team is perceived by the masses as a direct presentation of the country.

I think this is far too simplistic an opinion. What Brown did better, however, than Malinin, is capturing the spirit of the time with his music selections, addressing himself to the mood of the US audience. His short program is linked to the US-specific and very poignant, immediate issues, and his free is reflecting his background. It is far, far harder to do so as a Russian, because Russian representation is skewed and there is very little sensitivity. Last year, for example, my Russian-German child was assigned in the political simulation in their school to represent Fascist party. My jaw nearly dropped when she told me.

 

[florin]

I saw that in the article, but I had no idea what he was getting at here... I think this was pulled from an interview he was doing, so I thought it must have been in response to a question... as in "Yes he has a Russian name, but he is American, not Russian."

There's a lot lost in translation.

No, no, that definitely wasn't the answer to the question. The journalist to whom he gives an interview (Vaitsekhovskaya) knows perfectly well who Ilya is. At one time she wrote a large detailed article about Malinin, Torgashev and another young American Russian figure skater (unfortunately I forgot his name)

 

[lariko]

No, no, that definitely wasn't the answer to the question. The journalist to whom he gives an interview (Vaitsekhovskaya) knows perfectly well who Ilya is. At one time she wrote a large detailed article about Malinin, Torgashev and another young American Russian figure skater (unfortunately I forgot his name)

Maxim Naumov.

 

[mrrice]

Yes the Russian fed takes into account other factors. But the idea that they wouldn’t happily dump quadless Brown for Ilia is laughable.

And the whole Jason was 7 because everyone skated well is exactly the point. If other skaters skate well Jason does not have the technical goods to compete.

You know, there's a saying, "You Don't Beat A Dead Horse" it basically means, just because you say, or do, something over and over, hoping it will change, doesn't mean it will. What's done is done.

 

[moonvine]

This makes no sense at all; Jason skating the team event would be ridiculous. He has basically no chance of winning the LP, which is what U.S. needs, and he could finish dead last in that segment. Nathan should be skating both segments, but if USFS decides to massively hurt the entire team's chance of victory, then Vincent at least has a higher chance than Jason of winning.

Adam said in his book that the highest ranked skater/pair/team is offered the opportunity to skate both portions or only one. We had one pair at the last Olympics so they skated both sections (extremely well) Maia and Alex skated both. That left the men and women to split. Not sure how they do it in other countries.

Although he doesn’t throw his weight around, US Fed is not going to force Nathan to skate both legs. He will skate one part, probably the short, due to proximity to the men’s competition. Vincent’s inconsistency is in the long.

 

[florin]

I saw that in the article, but I had no idea what he was getting at here... I think this was pulled from an interview he was doing, so I thought it must have been in response to a question... as in "Yes he has a Russian name, but he is American, not Russian."

There's a lot lost in translation. I very seriously doubt that his ethnicity had anything to do with the selection or that Raf was implying that... is that what you think he was trying to say?

I think I've figured out what's going on. Raf uses a rhetorical device, which I translated verbatim, but you need to translate like this: "Indeed, he is not old enough, only 17, but he is potentially the future of the country in which he lives. He has a Russian name and a Russian surname, but he is American"

That is, the Raf responds to potential criticism of invisible opponents (and note that he includes nationality in this series). In this case, russians say "Yes,..." but in English, if my memory does not change, we need to say "Indeed,..." or "Truly,..".

 

[GGFan]

I am more interested in the question of possible national bias. The above interview was not quoted from the very beginning. I have a feeling that Raf is hinting at national bias

"To be honest, I don't even have the words to describe to what extent I am outraged. The point here is absolutely not that I worked with Ilya and did everything possible for him to achieve such a level of result. I have never engaged in protectionism against the athletes I work with, and I certainly am not going to do it now.

But Ilya is the second in the national championship. The second one!!! And with a breakaway. Yes, he is not old enough, only 17, but he is potentially the future of the country in which he lives. He has a Russian name and a Russian surname, but he is American. And the fact that he was not included in the Olympic team indicates, in my opinion, a blatantly unprofessional approach."

and then, what was quoted above. I'm sorry if I can offend anyone or it seems that I can troll, but I can't stop thinking that Ilya could have been prevented by his nationality - it's no secret that a) Americans have a negative idea of Russians, b) OG is a competition watched by millions of people who are usually not interested in figure skating and the Olympic team is perceived by the masses as a direct presentation of the country.

I think the idea that Russophobia went into this is pretty ridiculous. I'm the first one to call out racism, xenophobia, etc. and none of that happened here. People outside the US might think of Ilia as Russian but to Americans he is American.

I was in the arena and people were going WILD for Ilia. There was no distinction.

I think people are letting their disappointment get the best of them. In the old days they would have held down Ilia in the figures and the second mark and made this relatively easy if they wanted to. If they really wanted to hold him back this past weekend they could have easily done so through the PCS and GOE.

The fact that Ilia scored so high and was in second shows that they're not holding him back. They had a legitimately difficult decision with cases to be made on both sides. There are lots of good arguments to be made for why the decision wasn't wise but anti-Russian sentiment is not one of them.

 

[moonvine]

I'm not talking about online trolls. How about the coach of the men's and women's champions? Think his words might get consideration?

Here's what Raf had to say about it (Note: This is a Russian to English Google Translate - so there may be some inaccuracies - but you'll get the point).

We are told that this is how the rules are made. So change these rules, revise them. If the silver medalist of the last national championship with three quotas gets into the national team only as a substitute, then you need to find an opportunity to make an exception, whatever, but give the guy the opportunity to compete at the Games in Beijing, especially since with such points he could claim a prize " , - said Harutyunyan.

“I called one of the people in charge of the development of figure skating in America and asked how he would now look this boy and his parents in the eyes? What did this guy do wrong?

In addition, I called Ilya's parents and said that I wanted to apologize to them for what happened on behalf of all American figure skating. I am really ashamed of such a decision ... "

That is one of the most bizarre things I’ve ever read. He did what now? What the what?? He called Ilya’s parents to “apologize on behalf of all US figure skating?” Who gave him authority to do that?

I can’t even.

Did someone call Ross and his family in 2018 to apologize “on behalf of all US figure skating” when Raf’s 4th place athlete was taken over Ross?
How could USFS look Ross in the eyes?
What did Ross do wrong?

Dude has lost it

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Ilia could have chosen to skate as a senior this year. He would then have a larger BOW to be considered.

We're at a point now in which the USFSA has totally discouraged anyone from skating in junior events if they're eligible for senior events because of BOW considerations. We won't have any 16 year old men interested in skating in as juniors because it will eliminate them from consideration for big events even if they medal at Nationals. The USFSA is doing a truly awful job nurturing young talent with the decisions they make.

 

[moonvine]

I think the idea that Russophobia went into this is pretty ridiculous. I'm the first one to call out racism, xenophobia, etc. and none of that happened here. People outside the US might think of Ilia as Russian but to Americans he is American.

I was in the arena and people were going WILD for Ilia. There was no distinction.

I think people are letting their disappointment get the best of them. In the old days they would have held down Ilia in the figures and the second mark and made this relatively easy if they wanted to. If they really wanted to hold him back this past weekend they could have easily done so through the PCS.

The fact that Ilia scored so high and was in second shows that they're not holding him back. They had a legitimately difficult decision with cases to be made on both sides. There are lots of good arguments to be made for why the decision wasn't wise but anti-Russian sentiment is not one of them.

It’s crazy. The Cold War has been over for a long time.

 

[Lutzedge]

@Minz I noticed that there is an error listed in the first page of this thread with the alternates in the Mens group for the Olympics.

 

[florin]

I think the idea that Russophobia went into this is pretty ridiculous. I'm the first one to call out racism, xenophobia, etc. and none of that happened here. People outside the US might think of Ilia as Russian but to Americans he is American.

I was in the arena and people were going WILD for Ilia. There was no distinction.

I think people are letting their disappointment get the best of them. In the old days they would have held down Ilia in the figures and the second mark and made this relatively easy if they wanted to. If they really wanted to hold him back this past weekend they could have easily done so through the PCS and GOE.

The fact that Ilia scored so high and was in second shows that they're not holding him back. They had a legitimately difficult decision with cases to be made on both sides. There are lots of good arguments to be made for why the decision wasn't wise but anti-Russian sentiment is not one of them.

Thanks for your reply. You're probably right.

Spoiler: ...

But I still can't point out that the people who come to watch the performance live are not a representative sample of the millions of people who watch figure skating only during the Olympics (at least in my country)