Arms over the head

[flanker]

I'm so tired of hands placed on chest, I think it should be limited!

Literally what people can find as a cause for their complaints. And if for some reason any limit like that would be applied, there whould be something new soon to be found "bothering and should be limited/banned", because "we are purists with the right taste and we want them to do only what we want". Or maybe we can introduce a system of "rippon trading" like emission trading. There will set the total number of rippon actions per season that would be equally dispersed but the skaters and teams could trade it with each other

Let the skate has the hands where he/she likes, to limit that has as much sense as limiting the colours used on costumes.

 

[dorispulaski]

Yes, as long as they are no longer getting points for what is a personal preference, I am ok with whatever the skater prefers.

Just someone ought to make Johnny & Tara actually read the current version of the rules.

 

[Amei]

I'm so tired of hands placed on chest, I think it should be limited!

Literally what people can find as a cause for their complaints. And if for some reason any limit like that would be applied, there whould be something neww soon to be found "bothering and should be limited/banned", because "we are purists witht he right taste and we want them to do only what we want". Or maybe we can introduce a system of "rippon trading" like emission trading. There will set the total number of rippon actions per season that would be equally dispersed but the skaters and teams could trade it with each other

Let the skate has the hands where he/she likes, to limit that has as much sense as limiting the colours used on costumes.

I think the predominant thing people are talking about is limiting the amount that it counts (if it still does) towards GOE points. So <insert skater> can do over the head arms on all their jumps but it doesn't count towards GOE except for a few jumps. <<< which my point is this, IMO GOE has little to do with what actually happens on the ice, basically i don't think the arms over her head is really what's driving GOE, if Valieva suddenly did no jumps with her arms over her head, I think she would get the same GOE from judges

 

[flanker]

I think the predominant thing people are talking about is limiting the amount that it counts (if it still does) towards GOE points. So <insert skater> can do over the head arms on all their jumps but it doesn't count towards GOE except for a few jumps. <<< which my point is this, IMO GOE has little to do with what actually happens on the ice, basically i don't think the arms over her head is really what's driving GOE, if Valieva suddenly did no jumps with her arms over her head, I think she would get the same GOE from judges

It doesn't, at least directly. It can be counted as a good air position but that's a more complex thing than just rippon and also hardly a thing that should be limited.

 

[TontoK]

I don't particularly enjoy the arms-over-the-head thing.

But, this is a piddling argument to be having when there are so many ugly-ass Biellmann spins that are counted for levels on the back end of laybacks.

We need to fight the battles that matter!

 

[BlackAxel]

I think the predominant thing people are talking about is limiting the amount that it counts (if it still does) towards GOE points. So <insert skater> can do over the head arms on all their jumps but it doesn't count towards GOE except for a few jumps. <<< which my point is this, IMO GOE has little to do with what actually happens on the ice, basically i don't think the arms over her head is really what's driving GOE, if Valieva suddenly did no jumps with her arms over her head, I think she would get the same GOE from judges

Quite honestly, I don't think Valieva would be nearly as consistent as she is if it weren't for the rippon jumps. This is something that really bugs me about her skating. Her jump technique is so flawed that adding a rippon to her jumps is what keeps her from falling.

 

[Amei]

Quite honestly, I don't think Valieva would be nearly as consistent as she is if it weren't for the rippon jumps. This is something that really bugs me about her skating. Her jump technique is so flawed that adding a rippon to her jumps is what keeps her from falling.

I agree, they added the arms over the head to help stabilize her quads last year and she still had a weird way about the axis on her site position (impressive that she does manage to land them most of the time).

 

[Mauvedreamer]

I agree, they added the arms over the head to help stabilize her quads last year and she still had a weird way about the axis on her site position (impressive that she does manage to land them most of the time).

Ðамила Ðалиева, ÐÐ (Kamila Valieva, FS), ÑÑаÑÑие, ÐеÑвенÑÑво ÐоÑÐºÐ²Ñ Ð¼Ð»Ð°Ð´Ñего возÑаÑÑа 2019

Moscow Younger Novice Championships 2019, Ladies Elder group, Free Skating. 28th Feb 2019.

youtu.be

Kamila appears to be have been doing both ways . This is 2019 .

 

[Decoder]

I like the Arms Over the Head, it gives me the impression of some kind of grandness.

The ice rink is a big 2-dimensional oval with skaters' bodies creating the third dimension, and the z-heights thus created finish the final patterns, which must be very beautiful.

By the way, Kamila must have achieved the max z-value so far with her "quad toe with arms over the head". I guess Yuzuru/Nathan/Llia can break the record if they also put their arms over their head.

 

[BlackAxel]

Ðамила Ðалиева, ÐÐ (Kamila Valieva, FS), ÑÑаÑÑие, ÐеÑвенÑÑво ÐоÑÐºÐ²Ñ Ð¼Ð»Ð°Ð´Ñего возÑаÑÑа 2019

Moscow Younger Novice Championships 2019, Ladies Elder group, Free Skating. 28th Feb 2019.

youtu.be

Kamila appears to be have been doing both ways . This is 2019 .

Kamila has grown quite a bit since 2019. Has she performed rippon-less jumps in the last 2 seasons?

 

[Baron Vladimir]

I like the Arms Over the Head, it gives me the impression of some kind of grandness.

The ice rink is a big 2-dimensional oval with skaters' bodies creating the third dimension, and the z-heights thus created finish the final patterns, which must be very beautiful.

By the way, Kamila must have achieved the max z-value so far with her "quad toe with arms over the head". I guess Yuzuru/Nathan/Llia can break the record if they also put their arms over their head.

I agree with your impression, and i think majority of the judges think the same. Even it is not rewarded as a GOE bullet anymore, beside giving an impression of jump being more grandiose, it can give an impression of jump being more effortless, because the body position appears as more relaxed with hangs up, comparing to having your hands around your body which sometimes appears as holding your body because you are in a danger and it is not some usual position of human arms to begin with.
I also think it is rewarded (or it should) in CO mark for better use of space in general. Also as a variety in the COmposition - Alina's 'triple rippon-double tano-double conventional arms position' is the best example of it.

 

[Mathman]

I like the Arms Over the Head, it gives me the impression of some kind of grandness.

To me, that is the crux of the issue. EVERY jump can't be the Grand Poobah of the program. But if you save it for that climatic TA-DA moment, now you are on to something! (And deserve some acknowledgment in the PCS for presentation.)

When you do something Grand over and over, it starts to lose it;s grandness. It is just ordinary jumping, and the skater will have to rely on something else if they want elevated GOE.

 

[Mathman]

But, this is a piddling argument to be having when there are so many ugly-ass Biellmann spins that are counted for levels on the back end of laybacks.

I think we lost that battle 15 years ago.

The NJS guarantees that "features," "Bullet Points," "Levels," etc., will rule.

I remember when the CoP was first in force in 2004, Michelle Kwan (lacking flexibility in her back, especially at that stage of her career), did everything inher power to get spin levels by focussing on quality -- but no, that's not the direction that the sport has taken.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

To me, that is the crux of the issue. EVERY jump can't be the Grand Poobah of the program. But if you save it for that climatic TA-DA moment, now you are on to something! (And deserve some acknowledgment in the PCS for presentation.)

Only if you are a minimalist, it can't

 

[Decoder]

To me, that is the crux of the issue. EVERY jump can't be the Grand Poobah of the program. But if you save it for that climatic TA-DA moment, now you are on to something! (And deserve some acknowledgment in the PCS for presentation.)

When you do something Grand over and over, it starts to lose it;s grandness. It is just ordinary jumping, and the skater will have to rely on something else if they want elevated GOE.

In the past there were only a few girls jumping with arms over the head, either rippon or tano, and some were doing better than others. The rest were still trying to hold their bodies as tight as possible to make their jumps fully rotated (I'm not saying this is bad. It is still considered good technique (?)).

Here comes Kamila, she steps onto the ice and starts skating. She has long limbs, a ballerina's figure, and the extension is seen everywhere: fingers and toes, ina bauer, arms over the head, leg extension while landing, ... The whole performance is really a grand show.

Of course I cannot claim that Kamila is doing this "as extra" to earn more points, she probably needs to use this technique to stabilizing her jumps.

Nowadays there are more girls doing this, and it seems to be a proof that it is another "good technique" (?) If so, and by the time most girls do "arms over the head", we'll then see programs with different combinations of techniques, and many more ways to produce the TA-DA moments. We see development!

 

[Amei]

Ðамила Ðалиева, ÐÐ (Kamila Valieva, FS), ÑÑаÑÑие, ÐеÑвенÑÑво ÐоÑÐºÐ²Ñ Ð¼Ð»Ð°Ð´Ñего возÑаÑÑа 2019

Moscow Younger Novice Championships 2019, Ladies Elder group, Free Skating. 28th Feb 2019.

youtu.be

Kamila appears to be have been doing both ways . This is 2019 .

I specified her quads, I don't recall her doing her quads with her hands over her head till mid last season, previously she was doing similar to Shcherbakova where her triples/doubles were arms over head and her quads were the standard arms crossed in tight across her chest

 

[Amei]

In the past there were only a few girls jumping with arms over the head, either rippon or tano, and some were doing better than others. The rest were still trying to hold their bodies as tight as possible to make their jumps fully rotated (I'm not saying this is bad. It is still considered good technique (?)).

Here comes Kamila, she steps onto the ice and starts skating. She has long limbs, a ballerina's figure, and the extension is seen everywhere: fingers and toes, ina bauer, arms over the head, leg extension while landing, ... The whole performance is really a grand show.

Of course I cannot claim that Kamila is doing this "as extra" to earn more points, she probably needs to use this technique to stabilizing her jumps.

Nowadays there are more girls doing this, and it seems to be a proof that it is another "good technique" (?) If so, and by the time most girls do "arms over the head", we'll then see programs with different combinations of techniques, and many more ways to produce the TA-DA moments. We see development!

Actually the arms over head with every jump really started with Medvedeva i believe, but it was before Valieva was a junior or senior that it became a big thing.

 

[Decoder]

Actually the arms over head with every jump really started with Medvedeva i believe, but it was before Valieva was a junior or senior that it became a big thing.

Thx for the info.

 

[Mathman]

i prefer Rippon arms to Tano arms, mainly because the Rippons are more extended and visually pleasing than many helicopter Tanos that are not extended and their forearm is basically resting on top of their head.

But then again, an artfully done "tano position can be a thing of beautyl, while many Rippons in skating are too straight up and down.

https://i.etsystatic.com/24662505/r/il/a80494/3295128093/il_794xN.3295128093_rpe1.jpg

 

[Mathman]

Here comes Kamila, she steps onto the ice and starts skating. She has long limbs, a ballerina's figure, and the extension is seen everywhere: fingers and toes, ina bauer, arms over the head, leg extension while landing, ... The whole performance is really a grand show.

Kamilla is truly exceptional in that every element is a program highlight.