Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[nickp91]

I feel sorry for all the athletes who competed in the Team Event they all have worked very hard to be affected by this

 

[skycastles]

I'm glad some of the media around this is shifting from Valieva to the coaches and doctors around her. We still don't know all the circumstances around what happened but having Valieva be the face of something that is probably much bigger than her didn't sit well with me.

 

[Joekaz]

Think of poor Rika Kihira who is injured because she tried to keep up with the quad frauds.

 

[jen84]

That's weird. Why strip her from individual AA but not the other individual medal or the team one?

It was a huge black eye for the Sydney games. They wanted to appear tough on doping, but it sort of backfired on their image — stripping a child for a cold pill. Well, even the IOC president seemed to have issues with stripping her of the individual AA medal, but “rules were rules.” If I remember right, she wasn’t tested after the team event, one of her teammates were. I don’t think they tested the whole team. She was positive after the AA, she had a cold and was given Nuforen which had pseudoephedrine in it. If I recall right, her larger teammate had the same cold and was negative (same meds administered). Her teammate was about 15 or 20 pounds heavier as Raducan was only about 80 pounds. Raducan was negative again after the event final where she won another individual medal. She did compete after they were told of the positive test.
Pseudoephedrine is not on the banned list for gymnastics. After the Raducan drama, pseudoephedrine was removed from the banned substance list by the IOC but was later put back on.

 

[silveruskate]

Andreea Raducan, age 16, was the Olympic All-Around champion in 2000 until she was stripped of the title for testing positive for pseudoephedrine (Sudafed, cold medicine). She was explicitly given the medication by her team doctor and Andreea was found to not be at fault by the IOC but her gold medal was still taken away because regardless of whether or not she knew what she was taking, the banned drug was still found in her system. Banned drug in system = considered doping, whether active of passive.

I'm hopeful they will do the same for Kamila and hope they launch an investigation of the Sambo 70 coaches. I feel bad for Kamila but it *is* an advantage and it would be a complete farce to let her compete KNOWING and having EVIDENCE that she was given PEDs.

There would be no debate an anti-Doping violation occurred. So with Valieva I 100% expect the RusNats result for her to be voided. But the Europeans and Olympics especially (I'm biased since I am happy for her) but I think there is a case that it would not be in accordance with the rules to place any type of ban.

Also note that Raducan is not a Protected Person, for that you have to be under 16 which Valieva is.

 

[flanker]

Think of poor Rika Kihira who is injured because she tried to keep up with the quad frauds.

I will be injured soon because I'm trying to keep with weird people in this thread.

 

[silveruskate]

Anything that happens to Valieva I hope it is in full accordance with the rules. There are some that just want her banned no questions because of their feelings. Some the other way. Even if there's a moral dilemma it must be within the rules or it's legally unfair.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

I’m sorry but in the FS world, Valieva not competing at the Oly would be a scandal.

We likely would have got told she had Covid rather then failed a drug test.

You know what's more of a scandal? The winner of Olympic figure skating gold using a banned substance less than 2 months before the Olympics.

I get Kamila is a minor, had likely no knowledge of trimetazidine, but this is already rocking the world because even if her test was negative during the Olympics, the fact that she had tested positive and was still able to compete is understandably a scandal.

I am a huge Kamila fan, but I'm a bigger fan of fair play. And while it isn't her fault, it is infuriating and disappointing to think how this affects the earlier part of the season (especially skaters looking to make a bid to the Olympics themselves) as well as her teammates as well as the other skaters.

This is a terrible terrible look for figure skating, which has had its history of doping (including several Russians), but never on this stage and never in this type of circumstance.

 

[millie]

Well, it's politics after all, and i'm not sure i can talk about it. But if they have a problem with someone around here, i think it would be a country she represents, not her coaching team. Because her coaching team already have a lot of recognitions by the multiple organizations and skating community and ISU itself.

Yes and her coaching team has a lot of recognition with doping also……it’s not political either, it’s about cheating other young athletes out of medals that they deserve by getting them on their own without their cronies doping them up with illegal meds…..disclaimer, innocent until proven guilty…

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Think of poor Rika Kihira who is injured because she tried to keep up with the quad frauds.

Firstly, Anna and Sasha have not had any positive results. They've worked hard to get onto the Olympic team and be favourites to win. Let's not lump Kamila in just because she's also an Eteri girl unless there's actual evidence to bring those 2 into it as well.

Thirdly, Rika is her own person. There are loads of quadsters other than Valieva and like several in the women's field, they're jumping more intense, riskier jumping passes just to get those points. Sasha and Anna were jumping quads and Tukt doing her 3As before Kamila hit the senior scene and they've been clean.

 

[millie]

It was a huge black eye for the Sydney games. They wanted to appear tough on doping, but it sort of backfired on their image — stripping a child for a cold pill. Well, even the IOC president seemed to have issues with stripping her of the individual AA medal, but “rules were rules.” If I remember right, she wasn’t tested after the team event, one of her teammates were. I don’t think they tested the whole team. She was positive after the AA, she had a cold and was given Nuforen which had pseudoephedrine in it. If I recall right, her larger teammate had the same cold and was negative (same meds administered). Her teammate was about 15 or 20 pounds heavier as Raducan was only about 80 pounds. Raducan was negative again after the event final where she won another individual medal. She did compete after they were told of the positive test.
Pseudoephedrine is not on the banned list for gymnastics. After the Raducan drama, pseudoephedrine was removed from the banned substance list by the IOC but was later put back on.

Were they given Angina medication for their Colds?

 

[Mathman]

I will be injured soon because I'm trying to keep with weird people in this thread.

Can I offer you a joint to help you cope with the stress?

 

[silveruskate]

You know what's more of a scandal? The winner of Olympic figure skating gold using a banned substance less than 2 months before the Olympics.

I get Kamila is a minor, had likely no knowledge of trimetazidine, but this is already rocking the world because even if her test was negative during the Olympics, the fact that she had tested positive and was still able to compete is understandably a scandal.

I am a huge Kamila fan, but I'm a bigger fan of fair play. And while it isn't her fault, it is infuriating and disappointing to think how this affects the earlier part of the season (especially skaters looking to make a bid to the Olympics themselves) as well as her teammates as well as the other skaters.

This is a terrible terrible look for figure skating, which has had its history of doping (including several Russians), but never on this stage and never in this type of circumstance.

I think it's also a terrible look for the rules as they stand if this is something that the Doping Officials want to be prevented, even moreso than figure skating if somebody calmly looks at it because this would then be the case in all sports where athletes under 16 can compete.

 

[silveruskate]

Covid positives are pretty tightly proctored. If someone wanted to go that route, a digestive condition like norovirus or e. coli infection is one of those things that can be 24-36 hours where you only leave bed to go to the bathroom followed by either a quick recovery (in such cases, WADA would allow hydration ivs to prevent muscle cramping) or something that lingers enough to cause additional unfortunate withdrawls.



Sun Yang's first doping positive was something of a scandal because it was issued pretty much in secret- their anti-doping agency told FINA and FINA sat on it rather than disclosing it to the rest of the world and his camp was allowed to date the suspension so that he missed no major competitions. It was seen as a case of FINA giving preferential treatment to the Chinese federation and one of a string of controversies and bad behavior events that made him the villain of the swimming world even before the smashed vial incident. Guy assaulted a Brazilian swimmer in the training pool at the Kazan world championships and FINA just shrugged and mumbled something about crowded lane conditions.

As a long time swimming fan, just had to let off a little steam about him. I found the Chinese swimming delegation infinitely easier to cheer for in Tokyo since he was not allowed to be there.

Do you know if it was that there was residual substance in his body from taking the Trimetazidine before it was banned? I remember a lot of people getting off light for Meldonium with that. If not then 3 months is so lenient.

 

[4everchan]

the worst option is if Kamila simply does not know how the drug could get to her. That is, she does not just say that she does not know, but really does not know. Then it will be a complete analogue of the case with the curler Krushelnitsky at the last Olympics. He said at the time that he did not understand how meldonium could have ended up in his system. And this seems to be true, because such drugs cannot help curling in any way. It's almost like a chess player taking anabolic steroids.

But precisely because Krushelnitsky never found the source of his problem, he was disqualified for four years. In the case of Kamila, everything is going in the same direction so far.

That is correct. The athlete who tests positive for a banned substance has the burden of the proof. It usually takes months to get a ban lifted.

 

[zanadude]

Think of poor Rika Kihira who is injured because she tried to keep up with the quad frauds.

Just because Russians engage in doping doesn't mean that Kihira should stop trying quads. Where would Hanyu be now if he remained satisfied with just a 4T?

 

[Joekaz]

Firstly, Anna and Sasha have not had any positive results. They've worked hard to get onto the Olympic team and be favourites to win. Let's not lump Kamila in just because she's also an Eteri girl unless there's actual evidence to bring those 2 into it as well.

Thirdly, Rika is her own person. There are loads of quadsters other than Valieva and like several in the women's field, they're jumping more intense, riskier jumping passes just to get those points. Sasha and Anna were jumping quads and Tukt doing her 3As before Kamila hit the senior scene and they've been clean.

I was referring to Eteri and the team as a whole, not the individual skaters. I think they would still be very competitive if they left that team and also alot healthier in the long run.

 

[TontoK]

You know what's more of a scandal? The winner of Olympic figure skating gold using a banned substance less than 2 months before the Olympics.

I get Kamila is a minor, had likely no knowledge of trimetazidine, but this is already rocking the world because even if her test was negative during the Olympics, the fact that she had tested positive and was still able to compete is understandably a scandal.

I am a huge Kamila fan, but I'm a bigger fan of fair play. And while it isn't her fault, it is infuriating and disappointing to think how this affects the earlier part of the season (especially skaters looking to make a bid to the Olympics themselves) as well as her teammates as well as the other skaters.

This is a terrible terrible look for figure skating, which has had its history of doping (including several Russians), but never on this stage and never in this type of circumstance.

Different countries/regions have different perspectives on these things.

Here in America, there is already widespread disinterest/disgust regarding the Games because of the host and/or the poor job NBC is doing with the coverage. Viewership is at a shocking low. People are not tuning in, not even for a dominant American athlete like Nathan Chen.

An athlete mired in a doping scandal winning the headliner event would be a nuclear-level debacle for the IOC.

Personally, I am very sympathetic to Kamila. But if anyone thinks this can just be waived away with a "never mind" verdict, they're just wrong.

 

[4everchan]

Personally, I am very sympathetic to Kamila. But if anyone thinks this can just be waived away with a "never mind" verdict, they're just wrong.

My feeling as well. If this happened, the backlash would be even bigger.

 

[anonymoose_au]

Here's a question, why was this Doctor allowed to continue working with athletes after been caught out giving banned substances to athletes not once, but twice?! I mean just when I think the Russian Figure Skating Fed can't be any more ridiculous and stupid they do this?

Did they WANT their skaters to be doped? Does this doctor have prime blackmail material on important people?

It's just bizarre.