Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[lusterfan]

I say let her compete. Here’s my logic.

- if she’s innocent, a 15 year old was most likely cheated out an Olympic Gold Medal that she won’t win in 4 years. By all accounts, Russia is far too deep to expect her to be in this
position in 4 years to do it.

- if she’s guilty, strip her of the medal later and redistribute the medals if needed. That seems far more fair to me as far as Kami is concerned.

- I also think even if she competes, we won’t see her best and that’s going to stink regardless. All the unnecessary attention is going to rattle her, it already has.


Now, if she’s legitimately guilty, I think we can all agree she wasn’t doing it herself. And if that’s the case, you won’t complete that investigation before the start of the competition anyway. That’s going to take a long time.

As much as I empathize with Kamila and know she's not at fault here, IMO there's absolutely no way that she should be allowed to compete under these circumstances.

It's a fact that she tested positive for a drug that is on the banned list. Regardless of who gave it to her or how that drug got into her system, it's in her system and gave her xyz benefits. Even if people argue that it didn't give her benefits, it's still banned for a reason. What's the point of the banned list and anti-doping regulations if they just get thrown out of the window like this?

It truly truly truly sucks for Kamila (that video of her covering her face fills me with so much hatred for the coaches/doctors that put her in this position). However, her eligibility to compete in the individual event should not hinge upon whether or not there's fault. It could've been a pure accident that it got into her system, yet she should still not be able to compete.

The following is a crass example, but - if someone "slipped" some xyz banned steroids into an unknowing athlete's body, that athlete should not be blamed but should also not be allowed to compete because it is now unfair to all other athletes in the competition who don't have xyz in their system.

And allowing her to compete but stripping her medals later if she's found to be "guilty" ... that's completely and utterly unfair to all other athletes. Say Anna comes second to Kamila. She never gets her gold medal moment. Say Kaori comes 4th and doesn't even get to step on the darn podium. It's already a slap in the face to everyone else if they have to compete against an athlete who tested positive for a banned substance.

Redistributing the medals after the fact is just a brutal stomp on integrity (and what if redistribution doesn't happen until years later, when the proper medal athletes lost out on joy, glory, monetary benefits, etc).

Also, the implications of allowing her to compete are significant. What message does that send to everyone? Keep doping minors because there's precedence now that there will be no repercussions.

EDIT: And imagine what a nightmare it will be if Kamila actually skates poorly.........there's no "winning" for Kamila if she competes.

 

[Plisskin]

I think she's gonna be allowed to compete tbh. This case started with major conflicts of interest, which doesn't bode well for the rest of the investigation. It's not fair when other athletes have been banned immediately for less, but...

 

[zanadude]

Hopefully, in this case, they would remember the team who did this to her and not Valieva herself. Valieva should be remembered for all her best qualities.

We don't have any proof that Valieva isn't complicit in any of this. She's fifteen, not five. She is old enough to have complex emotions and motivations, even if she's not legally responsible for them.

 

[gravy]

It isn't about what you think though. The rules clearly state she is a Protected Person and the rules will and should apply to her as a Protected Person.

About Carolina, I consider that to be quite grevious myself.

It's not what I think. If you bothered to read WADA's documents describing what a protected person was you'd know that this line from my first post,

"Valieva can be handed anywhere from a slap on the wrist to 2 years for testing positive due to her protected person status."

...was directly lifted from the document detailing what measures can be taken against her. As mentioned, Kostner didn't actually dope and received an 18 month suspension. Valieva, an athlete who did dope, can only receive a **maximum** 2-year ban... or get off completely free. Quite a distinction in punishment when it comes to an adult athlete versus a protected person. That's not opinion, it's fact. Take it up with WADA if you have an issue.

 

[readernick]

We don't have any proof that Valieva isn't complicit in any of this. She's fifteen, not five. She is old enough to have complex emotions and motivations, even if she's not legally responsible for them.

I can't agree. Yes, 15 year olds are old enough to possess complex emotions. However, underage athletes are often required to follow their coaches training methods and requirements. They are easily taken advantage of and abused. Teenagers, also, don't have fully developed brains. They aren't capable of fully understanding possible consequences. I work with teenagers and there are many reasons they aren't legally able to make important decisions on their own.

She trains with the most powerful coach in Russia, possibly the World. She doesn't have true freedom of choice. The adults are responsible. This does not mean she should be allowed to compete. If she is, that will be a true failure of the system. However, It does mean this positive test shouldn't define her legacy.

 

[CanadianSkaterGuy]

Different countries/regions have different perspectives on these things.

Here in America, there is already widespread disinterest/disgust regarding the Games because of the host and/or the poor job NBC is doing with the coverage. Viewership is at a shocking low. People are not tuning in, not even for a dominant American athlete like Nathan Chen.

An athlete mired in a doping scandal winning the headliner event would be a nuclear-level debacle for the IOC.

Personally, I am very sympathetic to Kamila. But if anyone thinks this can just be waived away with a "never mind" verdict, they're just wrong.

For sure. I’m picturing a “Look over there!” reaction from ROC.

I don’t know what’s more sad that they have a doping scandal pretty much every Olympics or that the IOC thinks by them changing their name they’ll suddenly stop cheating.

 

[Tahuu]

If retesting of her B-sample confirms the previous positive result, Kamila should be barred from competing. And whoever gave her the drug should be banned from coaching/training athletes and attending competitions for x years.

 

[Joekaz]

I can't agree. Yes, 15 year olds are old enough to possess complex emotions. However, underage athletes are often required to follow this coaches training methods and requirements. They are easily taken advantage of and abused. Teenagers, also, don't have fully developed brains. They aren't capable of fully understanding possibly consequences. I work with teenagers and there are many reasons they aren't legally able to make important decisions on their own.

She trains with the most powerful coach in Russia, possibly the World. She doesn't have true freedom of choice. The adults are responsible. This does not mean she should be allowed to compete. If she is, that will be a true failure of the system. However, It does mean this positive test shouldn't define her legacy.

Wouldn't the logical extension of your point be that her teammates are almost certainly involved as well? And wouldn't it be logical to question her legacy if she is achieving it with banned substances? You have to consider how the non cheating skaters feel as well, don't you?

 

[zanadude]

I can't agree.

We don't have any proof that Valieva isn't complicit in any of this.

So we do have proof that Valieva isn't complicit? Please share.

 

[friedbanana]

This situation is such a mess. ISU, please protect young athletes & raise the age limit.

 

[*~RussianBleux~*]

We don't have any proof that Valieva isn't complicit in any of this. She's fifteen, not five. She is old enough to have complex emotions and motivations, even if she's not legally responsible for them.

I honestly don’t care if a 15 year old asked for drugs. She’s 15. Her brain isn’t fully developed. The adults are supposed to be adults and say no. They’re supposed to protect her from this and they didn’t. She has to accept the consequences regardless.

 

[readernick]

Wouldn't the logical extension of your point be that her teammates are almost certainly involved as well? And wouldn't it be logical to question her legacy if she is achieving it with banned substances? You have to consider how the non cheating skaters feel as well, don't you?

I think the first point is no doubt true. If you have seen my previous posts, I have already noted this. Certainly, the whole team is under a cloud of suspicion. If Valieva was doping, they likely all were and she was the one who got caught due to circumstances.

The results also must be questioned. I agree.

But, I'm talking about her personal legacy. The drugs didn't give her that beautiful extension or high jumps. They didn't motivate her to work hard to improve. She shouldn't just be remembered as a "cheat." Her team otoh....

 

[Joekaz]

For sure. I’m picturing a “Look over there!” reaction from ROC.

I don’t know what’s more sad that they have a doping scandal pretty much every Olympics or that the IOC thinks by them changing their name they’ll suddenly stop cheating.

Maybe the ISU is smarter than we give them credit for, and they purposely have scandal at the Olympics to distract the casual viewers from the ridiculously corrupt scoring and judging, which is the real scandal at every skating event. That is the "look over here" , lol.

 

[zanadude]

I honestly don’t care if a 15 year old asked for drugs. She’s 15. Her brain isn’t fully developed. The adults are supposed to be adults and say no.

My personal opinion is that she is not directly responsible, but it would not be physically impossible for a 15 year old in Russia to find a way to get this particular agent and use without anyone else's knowledge.

 

[gravy]

this. How on Earth can adults not trust the unbelievable talents of the children they mentor. I guess, perhaps, they do not trust themselves as mentors.

Agreed. The loudest people are usually the most insecure...

 

[Briananing]

God I just want her to go home, find a therapist, PR agents, heal her body and mind, then look for new coaching team. Like I couldnt deal with this stress anymore. imagine the one who is going through it without any supporting system beside her. I dont think she would be allowed to skate, after all this isnt in the ISU, Rusfed, RUSADA hand anymore. Every single sport journalist in the world is paying attention to it and IOC legitimacy would be question hard if she is allowed to skate. So just let her go home already, please.

 

[skylark]

Winning at all cost is a very slippery slope, especially when kids are involved.

Fair play is the essence of sport. That means everyone follows the same rules and is held to the same rules and standards.

"Winning at all cost" or "doing what you have to do to win" isn't sport. It's the equivalent of street brawling.

All season, people have marveled at Kamila. "How can she do it?" Well - with a drug that allows her to train more, and subsequently to compete more consistently. If she wasn't aware of it, I can believe that. But it doesn't change the fact that all of her competitors who weren't using such a drug have been cheated of the possible results that they were capable of.

I don't see what's hard to understand about this.

 

[plushyfan]

Have you seen this? https://twitter.com/_mariaaaa18/status/1492067969807040513 Look at Eteri's reaction!

 

[Mirunna]

Julia was consistent before Sochi and she crumbled under pressure. I cannot even imagine what living hell this kid is enduring.
The ideea that they should let her compete and strip her medal after is cruel. Andreea Raducanu was stripped of her gold medal in all around final for a fricking ibuprofen - not only it ruined her mentally for following events, but the other medalists said more than one time that for them Andreea is the winner. So all 3 girls were affected (all three Romanians - which is similar to the podium we might see here with 3 Russian girls). We need a conclusion before, so the girl who wins gets to climb the podium and everything. This is the only fair thing to do.

Another hideous thing that someone said is that she is 15 and not 5 implying she should know better. All I can say is - Larry Nassar incident. Hundreds of girls abused including Olympic Gold medallists for years. The last thing to do in this mess is victime blamming. Whatever the conclusion is, Kamilla is a victime

 

[yume]

So we assume that all schools in Russia are giving banned substances to all girls?

Wasn't it Shabotova before her switch to Ukraine, who said that everyone was doping and caused an uproar? I think she got blacklisted after that. That's probably partly why she's skating for Ukraine now.