Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[[email protected]]

Jeffrey Benz is one of the judges. He is a former US figure skater, a former member of US figure skating federation, and a former member of US Olympic committee. One poster here used to analyze the etimology of last names in judging panels. Here no analysis is needed.

 

[Magill]

I don't know how to single out political aspects out of this. In today's news there is information that the very same swedish lab came out with clean Kamila's tests after the Europeans. However, her Rusnats results "became known" only after TE. I know that one can explain everything. But this just does not make sense. Especially when we are talking not about some first group skater (with all due respect) but about the world's record holder by a big margin. Today there is a CAS arbitration with the chairman from the U.S.A. Don't we know the result in advance? There is a good Russian saying about this sort of situations.

Actually, I am through with figure skating. I shall find new interests in life

In fact, I am not talking politics, although these days it is hard not to. But there is a clear conflict of interests as The US team will get the gold. But no one seems to care. "Mission accomplished".

To stick with the facts, the US judge in question is only a member of the panel. An Italian presides.

That she tested plenty of times clean is a strong indication that it is an error/matter of contamination/response to another substance that causes the same metabolic reaction. I won't base my conclusions on hints like "Shabotova spoke anbout doping" and all the nonsense people here consider supportive evidence no matter how many times it was disproven.

What exactly is "plenty of times"? Hundreds? As many posters brought up before, we know the exact numbers are three per year for Nathan Chen. In what world would she be tested more often than him while being a junior for most of the time?

 

[florin]

No, I don't agree. As I said women's figure skating should have been singled out and the national team should have been further singled out. There had to be several projects like making sure that there are no "diversions" . For example, communication with those who may be responsible that they will be identified and severely punished, etc. There should be parallel inofficial tests in local labs. If something indeed was found in December they had to know about it not on February, 8. Too difficult? They claim that there was a state-sponsored big time program of interfering with hundreds of samples, with "cocktails", and "holes in the walls". They even claim, well, it's too political. Having a parallel drug testing for 3 key girls is a no-brainer for "state-sponsored" sport which is a true national priority. Apparently, they did not do it.

Who this THEY? The Federation? They obviously do not have the power and opportunities to use the capabilities of the banned Moscow laboratory. The state? Do you seriously think that the state, after all these accusations and scandals, will go to such underhanded movements?

First, let's take the side of the tragic coincidence version - indeed, because of the coronavirus, the Swedish laboratory worked slower (and it processed samples from the European Championship earlier due to logistics - the championship was in Tallinn, the European Union, plus the championship has a higher status than the national competition)

So, the second half of January, Federation has clean samples from the Grand Prix stages and clean samples from the European Championship, the sample from the Russian Championship is delayed. Unlike the users in this thread they know that there is no systematic doping in the Eteri team. Do you think that in such conditions they will start this dubious project involving a banned laboratory, just to make sure that everything is OK with the national sample? I think you're overreacting.

 

[esteticlove]

Other than Adam Rippon, Katarina Witt, Romain H (P/C coach) ... who else from the figure skating community have spoken about the doping controversy?

Even German mass media is talking about it which is weird, since you never hear a thing about figure skating there. Even when Savhcenko-Massot won gold, they were quite silenced. I think most people from the Eastern countries know where all of this is coming from..

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Children have always been viewed as commodities. That's why we have child labor laws, at least in the United States. It used to be factories and coal mines. Now it's sports.

Yeah, then we could get into a whole discussion about the history of the world and man's inhumanity to man too. Many sports, many cultures, many families, etc., have a lot of issues. Let's focus on the specific topic and specific sport and specific incident at hand. There are a lot of adults who are at fault in all of this, including IOC officials, WADA officials, Russian government officials, RUSfed and RUSADA, et al. But especially Eteri and her coaching operation, and the ISU.

Unfortunately, many of the people who are at fault are actively involved in the decision-making regarding resolution of this tragic rules violation.

 

[brakes]

Can you disprove the latter? Even Spokeswoman for the Ministry of Foreign Affairs of the Russian Federation (M. Zaharova) already made such assumption.

Her previous international appearance was Skate Canada on 29–31 October 2021, so she'd spent almost 2 months home, in Moscow, surrounded and supervised by her coaching/medical staff and parents.
There were like dozen better moments for foreign evil interference - Finlandia, GP, Euros, etc..
Much more likely is that her very own did it to her, with or without her knowledge...

 

[florin]

Wow, It's unexpected to read this from an American journalist.

Although she couldn't resist throwing a stone in the direction of Eteri (completely illogical). Well, this is understandable - if it were a strictly positive article in defense of the Russians, she would probably be lynched

 

[[email protected]]

Do you think that in such conditions they will start this dubious project involving a banned laboratory, just to make sure that everything is OK with the national sample? I think you're overreacting.

I in fact is about to check out for good. Therefore, yes, I can overreact. But may be it is not an overeaction at all. There is a balance. On the on hand, there are exceptional measures like parallel tests for 3 team members (well, I would add Liza as 4th). I am sure that there exists methodology in Russia to run such tests. Is it illegal? Why would inofficial testing for forbidden substances be illegal if it is for information purposes only? What is the punishment if some urine is tested and someone rings the bell: "they tested Valieva's urine!"? I would assume the risk of the consequences for such "wrongdoing" is X. The damage of the current situation that we have is Y. The damage for Valieva, for Russian figure skating, for Russian sport, for Russia. This Y is hundred times more significant that X. That's why even if the probability of Y was very small (no Eteri's skaters ever had positive doping tests and there were hundreds of test cumulatively) the sheer size of Y is so gross that it could not be dismissed. But it was. And I expect that the whole troops of Russian officials including god knows how old Kogan and Gorshkov should go. Unless they decide to play again the card: "the world is against us and we should unite with our current leaders"

 

[[email protected]]

Who this THEY?

It's like in Muse's song: "They will not force us. They will stop degrading us. They will not control us. We will be victorious"...

 

[Autumn Leaves]

I have no idea about anything like that, but if that's so then this specific medication should come with a warning
that top athletes would be aware of, just like athletes might avoid poppy seeds for example.

And even if they weren't aware of this and she has been taking that medication for headaches,
there isn't reasonable doubt to allow turning a blind eye to this, as they'll argue they just as easily
could've given her this headache medication to have a way out if they ever caught this substance in tests,

so she could be completely let off the hook, but still not be able to compete here,
or keep her recent results.

It is not about claiming and taking one’s word. There is a case and on matter and I think it was published earlier in the thread.

If the allowed medicine for migrane is taken, then there will be another substance in the sample. It can be scientifically tested and proven if the source of the banned substance was the migraine medicine or not.

 

[Zora]

At this point, the only honorable way out is for Valieva to swallow her pride and voluntarily pull out of the Ladies competition. Even if she truly believes she did nothing wrong, and even if Russia the ROC is successful in getting her in, the competition will be under a dark cloud that will forever envelop both these Games and her entire career.

Being the bigger person and setting her own ambitions aside to do what's best for the sport is the best way to assure that she still has a future in it.

I thought so, too, as a parent it would be better to just pull her out of this mess, because she just can't win at this point. On the other hand, she is just one competition away from becoming an Olympic gold medalist with all the benefits she gets in her home country. If she wins, she could even retire in a few days and leave all the hard training behind. And I think the Russians never had a problem with Sotnikova winning. So I can kind of understand why they keep her in the competition.

Valieva has an insane limb to torso ratio that seems to give her some advantages.

It never helped Kostner with consistency.

Even German mass media is talking about it which is weird, since you never hear a thing about figure skating there.

Because ARD is probably already investigating.

 

[Draculus]

What do we have in fact? They were "taken by surprise" yet another time. Either silence or sentiments like "we support Kamila" - the sentiments which are OK for friends, relatives, and fans but not for professionals. They are not professionals - they are incompetent good for nothing folks.

Sorry for maybe not nice question - but isn't situation the same in other aspects of Russian bureaucracy / officials?
I feel that in other areas, from science to politics it is the same. So why would sport be an exception? The same type of ppl are there.

 

[Scott512]

I meant if someone could clarify as to the specific leniencies a minor might receive, as in 2 months as opposed to
8 months and stuff like that, apart from not being actually charged.

Thank you for the explanation and I guess that is the best case scenario at this point for her.

any idea how long this investigation will go?

 

[Alex Fedorov]

Breaking news: As the Kreml just announced, while preparing Borschtsch, Valieva's grandmother, who has a heart condition, accidentally sneezed into the soup pot after taking her medication. Valieva regularly takes a warming pot full of Borschtsch to training sessions in order to strengthen herself in a healthy and natural way during the breaks. It is currently unclear whether this was a one-off accident and whether teammates also tasted the delicious Borschtsch. Those in charge will do anything to find out the whole truth. It is expressly pointed out that Eteri Tutberidze swore under oath that he had never cooked Borschtsch.

Grandmother of Valieva is dead. And now you're dancing merrily on her grave.

A significant part of this thread is the festival of gloating, sometimes open, sometimes somehow disguised with hypocritical phrases. But you set a record. You can consider yourself a GOAT.

 

[florin]

And I expect that the whole troops of Russian officials including god knows how old Kogan and Gorshkov should go.

In the name of all that's holy, no!

I am deeply convinced that one of the important components of the global success of Russian figure skating is the leaders of Fed. The Eteri phenomenon would have been impossible (at least in all its splendor and grandeur) without the support of the federation leaders. I hope you are not one of those who like these stupid memes "Goroshkov as always knows nothing, our federation is the worst, blah blah blah" In recent years, every step of the federation is reasonable, wise and correct in the long run.

 

[florin]

Grandmother of Valieva is dead. And now you're dancing merrily on her grave.

A significant part of this thread is the festival of gloating, sometimes open, sometimes somehow disguised with hypocritical phrases. But you set a record. You can consider yourself a GOAT.

By all habits, I believe that this person from FSO (monstrously toxic Russian figure skating forum) - it's normal there.

 

[Mista Ekko]

It is not about claiming and taking one’s word. There is a case and on matter and I think it was published earlier in the thread.

If the allowed medicine for migrane is taken, then there will be another substance in the sample. It can be scientifically tested and proven if the source of the banned substance was the migraine medicine or not.

And if both are taken?

 

[Lzbee]

"A very contradictory and complicated situation has arisen. Very many questions and very few answers. I want to say that I am absolutely sure that Kamila is innocent and pure. This is not a theorem for us, but an axiom; it doesn't need to be proven. I understand that there is some kind of protocol of action that we can't do without. We have by no means abandoned the athlete, we are with our athletes in both trouble and joy to the end.

It is very unclear why an athlete with a dubious doping test on December 25 was allowed to participate in the Olympics. Either it is a fatal coincidence, or it is a very clever plan - well, I do not know, or both. I really hope that our leaders will not abandon us, defend our rights and prove our innocence.

Now our whole team is frozen in anticipation of decisions regarding Kamila Valiyeva. We are afraid of any statements, so as not to violate, not to harm. I do not know who decides what, but I hope that justice will be done".

Thank you for the translation!

Forgive me but I think Eteri's statement was quite reasonable... ish. Sounds like even she agrees that Kamila should still be provisionally suspended.

However, she's clearly setting up the team doctor to take the fall and simultaneously fanning conspiracy theories about the situation being planned to occur with maximum damage. Eteri in fact has very little to lose by saying this as she still has 2 chances at gold.

But can you imagine if they had gotten the test results back after nationals? It would've been quietly hushed up and there would be no investigation into the abuse of minors. Do I have faith that the investigation will turn out results? Not really. But the bigger this gets, the more likely something will have to be done. It will take the Russian public getting angry at their officials to protect their young athletes.

I'm just so so so sorry that Kamila has had to be caught up in this. Someone gave her medication that could destroy her health without her being able to consent RUSADA, RusFed, Team Tut and ISU have all failed her.

 

[brakes]

...

How do you think trimetazidine got into Kamila's system or doping test? You must've been wondering about it.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Wow, It's unexpected to read this from an American journalist.

Although she couldn't resist throwing a stone in the direction of Eteri (completely illogical). Well, this is understandable - if it were a strictly positive article in defense of the Russians, she would probably be lynched

Why would it be unexpected from an American journalist?