Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Magill]

What if she tested negative at Europeans and they retest all her samples and they are still negative?

AFAIK, it seems it doesn't matter. If she gets suspended, the suspension starts back retroactively at the date the sample was taken - that is RusNats, 25th December, and then goes forward for the decided duration of suspension. Other samples and tests taken during this time are meanigless at this point.

 

[Scott512]

AFAIK, it seems it doesn't matter. If she gets suspended, the suspension starts back retroactively at the date the sample was taken - that is RusNats, 25th December, and then goes forward for the decided duration of suspension. Other samples and tests taken during this time are meanigless at this point.

Thank you for the info. They are probably working on the suspension details as I write this.

 

[florin]

This is a drug that is banned. It isn't only banned in certain amounts. What would be unfair would be if Kamila were allowed to compete regardless of testing positive for a banned drug.

I haven't seen anyone try to convince anyone that her victory or performances are flukes.

But she can't skate when she's failed a drug test. She isn't clean.

I don't think she went searching for this drug or asked anyone for it. One or more adults have failed her. The whole thing is terribly sad.

Why do you exclude the option of accidental consumption of the drug, with some product?

This is not a magic pill that dramatically improves your capabilities on the day of the competition. All theoretical constructions justifying that this is a real doping are based on the fact that it is possible to some increase the performance of training. Which obviously means that this substance is doping only in a situation of systematic use over a long distance.

Ergo - if we could determine exactly that was one-time accidental use, for example, with a contaminated product then this whole theater of the absurd must be stopped and forgotten as a terrible dream.

 

[reneerose]

It gets worse:

https://twitter.com/cbrennansports/status/1492502188173656068?t=bxJ_4u6mcYRgZlBMfrhIFg&s=19

Look at the smug self-serving dribble.

I'm really angry. This is is a horrible thing that's happened. Not some TV drama, these are young people's hopes and dreams.

It's not for Christine's entertainment or self-aggrandizement.

I pray she never gets anywhere NEAR Kamila.

Maybe question Eteri next time.

I don't think Christine can get near Eteri unless she barges in during a ladies practice and calls her out there Eteri is not going to be an available target like Diana was (no where to escape after her dance comp, cornered by media), she's going to deflect and say "no comment" and run away. Christine had poor form for even deigning to question Diana, just like all of the other reaching vulture media asking ridiculous questions of the men about the doping in general during their press conference to get a daily sound byte....poor Hanyu comes to mind when the media asked him about the women's doping, how are people who are not even responsible for the Kamila's situation supposed to answer, makes vulture media during the Games look like the usual nuts they are...

 

[mrrice]

And again I ask you - do you think it is realistic that skaters will do without water consumption for about four days - a couple of days of training and two days of a short and free program?

Well, I can only speak from personal experience. I can promise you, that I didn't drink anything other than sips of water the final 2 days before a concert or competition. Bulimic Dances are not a myth. These aren't "Rec" skaters, there are million dollar endorsement contracts on the line and skaters, coaches, and agents will do whatever it takes to sure they're athlete is in top condition when the time comes.

 

[Magill]

Thank you for the info. They are probably working on the suspension details as I write this.

Not neccessarily. What is now in question is the temporary suspension which regards her current start at the Olympics. They have to decide it now. All the other details will be most probably left to be decided later, after the proper investigation of the case. It will take some time, I think.

 

[matin calin]

Which obviously means that this substance is doping only in a situation of systematic use over a long distance.

Not sure if that is how it works. She was "doped" at the RusNats so if nothing else, her performance was, hypothetically, increased during this competition (for example she did not get as exhausted towards the end of the LP if we assume that the drug in question does increase oxygen flow). This essentially enabled her to be placed ahead of clean (as far as we know it) Liza in the competition for an olympic spot.

 

[Amei]

Why do you exclude the option of accidental consumption of the drug, with some product?

This is not a magic pill that dramatically improves your capabilities on the day of the competition. All theoretical constructions justifying that this is a real doping are based on the fact that it is possible to some increase the performance of training. Which obviously means that this substance is doping only in a situation of systematic use over a long distance.

Ergo - if we could determine exactly if this is a one-time accidental use, for example, with a contaminated product then this whole theater of the absurd must be stopped and forgotten as a terrible dream.

I think most of us have thought of the possibility that this is an accidental consumption, I would say the majority of us are hoping that's the explanation.

There is still the issue that she has taken a banned substance, whether or not she derived any benefit from it is in all likelihood meaningless to the situation that's being determined tomorrow.

 

[anonymoose_au]

I can promise you, that I didn't drink anything other than sips of water the final 2 days before a concert or competition.

Yikes...weren't you horribly dehydrated by this? And how did you not faint from said dehydration?

 

[Alex Fedorov]

Doping in Russia has a systemic nature. Russia has had 44 Olympian medals stripped for doping violations. The most of any country. In Dec. 2019, Russia was banned for 4 years from all major sports for systematic doping and lying to WADA. We all agree that this young skater is a minor and probably don’t know how this got into her system. Did her parents give them permission! If they let them away with doping this time, it’s just as well for the athletics to give up now or everyone dope…

Have you ever tried to somehow analyze this information? If not, then in vain - it's quite interesting. Here are some theses:

1) Not 44, but 46 medals were taken from Russian athletes. We are talking about the segment from 2002 to 2021.
2) Of these 46 medals, the main number falls on the period from 2002 to 2010. Five - in Salt Lake City (2002), three - in Athens (2004), 1 - in Turin (2006), and then 14 in Beijing ( 2008), 2 in Vancouver (2010), 15 in London (2012). In total for this period - 40 medals.
3) For the entire remaining period - 6 medals. Of these, four in Sochi (2014), one in Rio de Janeiro (2016) and one in Pyeongchang (2018). Since the Tokyo Olympics (2021), not a single medal has been lost so far.

Simple questions - why did WADA and the IOC raise a loud fuss about "systemic doping in Russia" not in 2008 and not in 2012, but in 2016?

Why, despite Rodchenkov and the unprecedented attack on Russian sports, do the results look so pitiful - four Sochi medals, and that's it?

Why was there about 100 times more media noise due to one (!) bronze medal taken from Krushelnytsky in 2018 than due to 14 medals taken in Beijing in 2008?

Why, in the summer of 2021, did USADA so powerly pissed off at the “insufficient punishment of Russia”, although not a single medal was taken away from the ROC team?

The questions are, of course, rhetorical. All this supposedly anti-doping hysteria has nothing to do with sports. It should also be noted that until 2016, Russian sports officials practically did not resist WADA, dutifully handing over medals and not filing appeals. Otherwise, it seems to me, even from the London anti-doping triumph there would be little left.

 

[florin]

Well, I can only speak from personal experience. I can promise you, that I didn't drink anything other than sips of water the final 2 days before a concert or competition.

So, did you still drink something?

Are you aware, by the way, that people sweat, blow their noses?(look at the training videos) All this needs water

And finally, the girls need water to... excuse me... pee, for doping. After all, after the free program, athletes drink, do you agree? For example.

All this nonsense about water comes from that interview with Alina, where she said that she controls water consumption immediately before the skate on OG (that's how you said). But this is far from the fact that they do not drink water at competitions at all (and that was my opponent's ridiculous counterargument). In the end, I remind you that at the Olympics, doping officers requested a urine sample from Alina, she had to drink a lot of water (it was reported that she was so heavy that there were problems with training). But nevertheless, this did not prevent her from becoming an Olympic champion, right?

 

[chuckm]

You're really funny and the funniest part is that you don't seem to be joking

You know that the competition goes on for several days - training, short program day, free program day, right? I hope you studied at school and remember the basics of human biology - for example, how much time a person can spend without water consumption You're funny

Just the same, Eteri does not allow her skaters to drink water during competition and even during training. She says drinking water adds extra weight and extra weight is a nono. I am not joking. This has been reported for years.

 

[florin]

Not sure if that is how it works. She was "doped" at the RusNats so if nothing else, her performance was, hypothetically, increased during this competition (for example she did not get as exhausted towards the end of the LP if we assume that the drug in question does increase oxygen flow). This essentially enabled her to be placed ahead of clean (as far as we know it) Liza in the competition for an olympic spot.

Liza? Seriously?

Are we at a forum dedicated to figure skating? You know that Kamila also skated at the Grand Prix stages. Have you seen her scores? Tuktamysheva is not Kamila's rival.

 

[florin]

Just the same, Eteri does not allow her skaters to drink water during competition and even during training. She says drinking water adds extra weight and extra weight is a nono. I am not joking. This has been reported for years.

I am aware that you are not joking, and I repeat this is the funniest part.

This not "been reported for years" There were endless repetition of myths among haters.

 

[florin]

it is in all likelihood meaningless to the situation that's being determined tomorrow.

And it's very sad. This is a theater of formalistic absurdity

 

[Amei]

And it's very sad. This is a theater of formalistic absurdity

No its not, there are a set of rules and a rule was broken.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

I am aware that you are not joking, and I repeat this is the funniest part.

This not "been reported for years" There were endless repetition of myths among haters.

at a press conference after the Russian Championship 2021 (when Shcherbakova won for the third time), Kamila, Sasha and Anna drank bottled water very often. It was obvious that they needed it. But after all, all this happened after a very exhausting FS.

 

[pohatta]

Have you ever tried to somehow analyze this information? If not, then in vain - it's quite interesting. Here are some theses:

1) Not 44, but 46 medals were taken from Russian athletes. We are talking about the segment from 2002 to 2021.
2) Of these 46 medals, the main number falls on the period from 2002 to 2010. Five - in Salt Lake City (2002), three - in Athens (2004), 1 - in Turin (2006), and then 14 in Beijing ( 2008), 2 in Vancouver (2010), 15 in London (2012). In total for this period - 40 medals.
3) For the entire remaining period - 6 medals. Of these, four in Sochi (2014), one in Rio de Janeiro (2016) and one in Pyeongchang (2018). Since the Tokyo Olympics (2021), not a single medal has been lost so far.

Simple questions - why did WADA and the IOC raise a loud fuss about "systemic doping in Russia" not in 2008 and not in 2012, but in 2016?

Why, despite Rodchenkov and the unprecedented attack on Russian sports, do the results look so pitiful - four Sochi medals, and that's it?

Why was there about 100 times more media noise due to one (!) bronze medal taken from Krushelnytsky in 2018 than due to 14 medals taken in Beijing in 2008?

Why, in the summer of 2021, did USADA so powerly pissed off at the “insufficient punishment of Russia”, although not a single medal was taken away from the ROC team?

The questions are, of course, rhetorical. All this supposedly anti-doping hysteria has nothing to do with sports. It should also be noted that until 2016, Russian sports officials practically did not resist WADA, dutifully handing over medals and not filing appeals. Otherwise, it seems to me, even from the London anti-doping triumph there would be little left.

In recent years many cases have been found up to 8 years later because frozen samples have been re-tested. Some athletes got their medals up to 8 years after the actual competition. Which means that it's likely there are still medals to be handed out to new owners from the 2016, 2018 and 2021 games.

 

[matin calin]

Liza? Seriously?

Liza just happened to be next in the line, it could have been someone else, anyone with quads and good artistry for that matter, that would have lost the olympic spot. Point is that the fairness in the competition is distorted, due to some athletes receiving an extra boost and some not. Again, I am not saying Kamila would not have won RN without her heart vitamins, but from a formal/legal perspective she got an unfair advantage. The law may be harsh and unreasonable but it is the law nonetheless, and it should have been followed.

Sadly I for one believe that not all athletes on the olympic level are clean in the strict sense of the word, it is just that some manage to find loopholes and/or correctly time and measure their medication, and some fail embarrassingly. Russian pharm industry is not exactly top level (unlike that of America and some EU countries), so I suspect this is partially why it is Russians and not others who get exposed so often.

 

[Alex Fedorov]

I don't believe Kamila will be acquitted. We can only hope for the comparative loyalty of the cassation instance to Russian athletes (WADA and the IOC are always more confrontational), as well as for the “B” test.

Although it is not yet known what rationale was provided for overturning Camila's initial suspension from the competition. Maybe it's really something convincing. However, there is very little hope.

By the way, before the Tokyo Olympics, RUSADA behaved rather harshly - athletes were not allowed to go to Japan even at the slightest suspicion of doping.