Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[GGFan]

This grandfather story: I can't. Doping is one thing, why do they always then try to insult our intelligence as well? Can't wait for the pairs.

 

[Ducky]

Thanks. It really doesn’t make sense.

This was my expectation from the beginning- that somehow someway they’d manage to prevent any blame from going to anyone involved in this highly successful program. And here it is. How convenient.

Like, let's say that she somehow ingested a whole dose of the drug (20mg), according to the half-life equation there would only be 0.172514 mg in her system 2 days after - assuming the 1/2 life is at the 7 hour end of the spectrum - which is below the lowest limit of the usual trimetazidine limits of detection (0.5-50 ng/mL).

Doping control analysis of trimetazidine and characterization of major metabolites using mass spectrometric approaches - PubMed

Since January 2014, the anti-anginal drug trimetazidine [1-(2,3,4-trimethoxybenzyl)-piperazine] has been classified as prohibited substance by the World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA), necessitating specific and robust detection methods in sports drug testing laboratories. In the present study, the...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

 

[norwegianfairytale]

Well the Team doctor is really something....

 

[McBibus]

Exactly. CAS ruled "irreparable harm" if Valieva doesn't compete and then somehow is absolved of the positive test. Who represented the 23 (now 24) other competitors who are facing irreparable harm competing against someone with a positive PEDs test who are now dealing with the situation unfolding knowing their sport and the Olympic institution is allowing a doper to compete. Where is their opportunity for fair competition, integrity, and an Olympic moment? They are being robbed of a chance to compete on an even playing field and flower and medal ceremonies.

Especially when no one else who has tested positive has been given such a presumption of innocence by the international arbitrators.

What does irreparable means to you?
Rules do not deal with emotions, but with results.
If kamila wins and then get disqualified it could be "repaired" by declaring a new winner.
If Kamila is banned and then discharged that is irreparable by definition.

I understand and support the missing the joy of winning argument but in judgement it's expected to weight less than an absolute decision about the final result.
Not having your moment is just the same as th winner testing positive after the competion (happened a lot of times already)

 

[cisum88note]

It has been explained already in the former thread that half life does not mean that the medication gets undetectable with WADA-methods, rather, it takes weeks. So in theory, she could have received TMZ weeks prior to the testing date.

There is one thing that puzzles me, so many people on this forum, Twitter etc professed love and sympathy for Kamila, right? But when they are presented with scenarios that would actually clear her name, like an accidental intake or lab mistake, those are being viciously denied. My explanation is that people dislike Russia a tiny bit more than they like Kamila, and somehow it is just comforting to learn about bad Russians being humiliated and punished once again.

I don't know know who in "former threads" is "explaining" about doping, but as a lab scientist, with the trace elements in this particular medication, that is not correct. People have a right to be suspicious because, as I also noted, the explanation that she drank from the same glass as her grandfather is a scientifically impossible explanation for having these trace substances in her system.

When people are presented with scientific facts, they prefer to believe stories that were presented by the athlete in question's biased family members. My explanation is that people can't handle the systemic corruption in the Russian doping system and in figure skating in general and would rather believe impossible scenarios. Sad, but true, as we've seen with other medical information in the last several years.

 

[Sloopy]

CAS Secretary General Matthieu Reeb said that banning the athlete based on a drugs test in December is detrimental to her future given the young age of the athlete who should be protected under current regulations. The ruling was very generous and compassonate.

There won't be a future for her in figure skating as well as the other two Russian girls, as we all know they're done right after this event is over by following in the footsteps of the previous "Russian Olympic gold" medalist's exit. They are one and done in their 2 year senior level history. If we know this is going to transpire, the people making the ruling should know it. This outcome is detrimental to the sport and the whole Olympic ideal of fair sport and camaraderie among nations through sport. They have just given Russia the ok to continue rounding up underage girls, abusing them in various ways (doping falling under this umbrella), getting them to the gold medal and then dispensing of them. I cannot imagine what the other athletes are thinking or feeling after putting in years and years of hard work, sweat and tears. The governing body will have to up the age limit from 15 in order to close the loop hole but it will be too late as this Olympic cycle will be tarnished for all time.

 

[cisum88note]

What does irreparable means to you?
Rules do not deal with emotions, but with results.
If kamila wins and then get disqualified it could be "repaired" by declaring a new winner.
If Kamila is banned and then discharged that is irreparable by definition.

I understand and support the missing the joy of winning argument but in judgement it's expected to weight less than an absolute decision about the final result.
Not having your moment is just the same as th winner testing positive after the competion (happened a lot of times already)

The psychological toll of competing under the doping scandal and the distraction and effects of that are very real. It's not just about "joy." It's about not being able to compete fairly in a sport that you've spent the majority of your life focusing on and moving towards a goal.

 

[KaliM]

Well the Team doctor is really something....

Completely unrelated, and maybe in poor taste, but boy I got so many Snape vibes from this man

(gotta laugh at the tragedy some times)

 

[cisum88note]

I think it's a pretty easy comparison, but I doubt anything will convince you if you're even asking.

You're making the claim, so I assume you had actual facts to back up your statement.

 

[CrazyKittenLady]

Well the Team doctor is really something....

He'll try to patent Kamila's grandpa's glass next....

 

[Alchamei]

Alysa Liu and Arthur Liu on Russian Doping:

https://www.11alive.com/article/sports/olympics/valieva-cleared-russian-squad-out-ro-sweep-podium/507-1c4bb17a-f552-494d-aeb3-895089e00b1e

It says I don't have permission to read it on this server.

 

[norwegianfairytale]

Completely unrelated, and maybe in poor taste, but boy I got so many Snape vibes from this man

(gotta laugh at the tragedy some times)

Yep, I almost jumped when I saw the one picture with him and the four girls because I thought it was Snape...

 

[Draculus]

Dossier Center's experts say that TMZ is in capsules which dissolve in intestines only and cannot contaminate the glass. https://dossier-center.appspot.com/kamila/

Trimetazidine exists in tablets form too, not only in capsules. And if dosage is f.e. 1/2 tablet (or 3/2) - then usually ppl break tablet in half before ingest it, thus glass can be easily contaminated. No clue about concentration and detection sensitivity.

 

[luvsasha]

What does irreparable means to you?
Rules do not deal with emotions, but with results.
If kamila wins and then get disqualified it could be "repaired" by declaring a new winner.
If Kamila is banned and then discharged that is irreparable by definition.

I understand and support the missing the joy of winning argument but in judgement it's expected to weight less than an absolute decision about the final result.
Not having your moment is just the same as th winner testing positive after the competion (happened a lot of times already)

Thank you. In this case, irreparable harm is probably a legal term since CAS is a COURT.

I thought Kamila shouldn't be allowed to compete, but I understand why CAS did what they did. Also, the IOC won't have a medal ceremony so to me that says "Kamila can skate all she wants, but win a medal? That's a different story."

 

[Draculus]

I gotta say putting a potential Olympic champion in such proximity of a banned substance where
she could accidentally consume it is HIGHLY irresponsible of them, if that was in fact the case,

You expect too much of ordinary ppl, they are not sport medical experts.

 

[Scott512]

There is an easy answer to that: even a broken clock is right twice a day.

Also, I know this is being framed as Russia bad, west good situation, and everyone defending Kamila is being labeled a nationalistic Russian, but I am an American born and raised.

I would defend Kamila even if she was American or anything else.

She deserves the defense because she's been slaughtered internationally and nobody says a thing except us.

And the Western media drives a lot of this.

I willl be interested to see how KV reacts to to all the controversy in her short program performance. I am not expecting Europeans type dominance from her.

 

[fabienne1996]

They also mention that her grandfather had received a heart transplant. If TMZ is on Russian post-heart transplant medical protocols then maybe this scenario is not so improbable after all.

does anyone know how long tmz stays in the blood if only taken once like that? because i heard its not days its hours? and does anyone know when the russian ladoes arrived at rusnats including kamila? the test is from the 25th of december right? the short was on the 24th if i remember correctly , and the draw was even earlier i think so the question is if tmz from a one time intake stays in the body and can be found out in a probe for a few days?because if not..

 

[Draculus]

This medication has a half life of 4-7 hours and would be gone in approximately a day.

Please, learn what half-life is. If half-life is 4 hours then after a day (24 hours) concentration drops by a factor of 64.

 

[TwinnerA]

Hey, I live with my twin sister and even we don't share or drink from the same glass. LOL

 

[Mista Ekko]

You expect too much of ordinary ppl, they are not sport medical experts.

Are you for real? she's an Eteri student,
and she's not ordinary.