Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[skatedreamer]

I really should stop reading this thread. The details of what happened to poor Jessica made me start checking the ingredient lists on all my skin care products for chlorphenesin. Next up will be lip balms. Like who knows what heinous substances I'll find in those?

But seriously, folks, how does anybody keep this stuff straight? The mind boggles.

 

[reneerose]

I'm mostly unhappy with the double standard just because she is 15 and making the clean ladies skaters who might also podium to no ceremony in case K.V. does podium. I think I had a major awareness of what was wrong and right when I was 15 but again I was living in America and not under the circumstances K.V is in. I just read on Twitter about Jessica Calalang's being seriously triggered by this current scandal as she was suspended during her doping situation case and just due to being a minor K.V. isn't.

 

[Greengemmonster]

But seriously, folks, how does anybody keep this stuff straight? The mind boggles.

Just roll with it!!!! It's hard to keep straight. I've yoyo-ed around so much I feel like I'm going crazy.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

I have seen very little castigation of the girl. The system? Yes. The chicken heartedness of IOC/WADA/ISU to take a stand? Absolutely. Most see Valieva as a victim who will become collateral damage

Bolded part: I don't agree with the characterization of "chicken heartedness" of these organizations. While in the past IOC/ISU have seemed reluctant to ruffle Russian feathers, in this case, all three organizations pretty much immediately did the only thing they could legally do: appeal to the CAS. It was the CAS that in my opinion, and that of about 90% of the skating-aware planet, got it wrong.

The IOC, in further stating it will not award medals just yet in the event of a Valieva-inclusive ladies' podium (or the concluded Team competition), did about what it could do right now, with the limited cards it has to play.

It's the PAST stance of the IOC, being too lenient with Russia, that has led to this debacle so in that sense, yes they screwed up by not imposing draconian consequences from the outset, after the Sochi doping scandal was laid bare for all to see.

 

[4everchan]

this case sounds like it's taken from Legally Blonde Beijing 2022 edition... Elle Woods against child abuse and doping in sports.

At this point, there is nothing left to do than laugh about the stupidity of that decision...

 

[bigsisjiejie]

Being upset, absolutely. Going out public with condemnation after CAS ruling that allowed Kamila to skate - I am not sure. Do they really have to, for instance people like Johnny Weir and Yuna Kim? Isn't it a bit early for the radical statements? Why don't they concede for a second that CAS could, in fact, have some valid unannounced reasons to take that decision except for Kamila being under 16 - it should not take 7 hours to establish her age, right? I am sure other circumstances were discussed and considered, circumstances that no upset skater knows about, presumably.

No, it's not too early for FAIR statements. Nothing "radical" about so many people being angry about this. Kamila is getting special treatment, and the CAS statement gave its main rationale as her "protected athlete" status (age). If you have not yet read the CAS statement, I suggest you do so.

 

[chuckm]

The big advantage of the grandfather story is that it doesn't link Eteri or the any of the doctors to the case. How convenient.

Big disadvantage: On Dec 25, Valieva was at Russian Nationals in St. Petersburg. Her grandfather was at his home (not in SP). So they weren't in the same place at the same time when the 'ingestion' occurred.

 

[silveruskate]

BBC sums it up perfectly -


'It decided that because of Valieva's age and the "untimely notification of the results" of the failed test - in the middle of the Games and nearly six weeks after she gave the sample - that it would do her "irreparable harm" if she were not allowed to compete.'

 

[Greengemmonster]

Is the commitment to the Grandfather story verified or is it a case of "I heard that they are blaming it on Grandpa"

Like are they officially committing to the Grandpa story?

 

[Draculus]

Is the commitment to the Grandfather story verified or is it a case of "I heard that they are blaming it on Grandpa"

Like are they officially committing to the Grandpa story?

For now it is just a rumor. But who knows...

 

[silveruskate]

Is the commitment to the Grandfather story verified or is it a case of "I heard that they are blaming it on Grandpa"

Like are they officially committing to the Grandpa story?

If it was brought up then this is the least solid part of the argument as contaminated product was not even mention in the CAS statement as a reason for upholding the decision to lift the provisional suspension.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I'm truly intrigued as to what their decision will end up being here,
it could be so many things influenced by a bunch of factors,
with an international magnifying glass hovering over.

Well, I had a feeling that Valieva was going to be allowed to skate, so I'm not surprised. I just wanted to see how they were planning to justify this, when so many other athletes have been immediately suspended with no questions asked, and no later lifting of suspensions for special cases either.

Although, I agree with those who say Valieva herself is not at fault, rules are rules. Trying to jerry-fit some new, off-the-cuff rules into place with the excuse that Valieva is a minor, doesn't wash. No one is buying this reasoning, especially not the athletes, and skaters like Jessica Calalang, who was so harshly dealt with in a way that negatively impacted her career for something she was not responsible for. There was no way for Calalang or other similarly affected athletes to know about a legal substance in cosmetics that could metabolize in their bodies and turn into traces of a banned substance.

Meanwhile, the Russian federation is known to be involved in condoning and facilitating athlete doping. It's why they are currently under a slap-on-the-wrist punishment, which is not really a punishment. Isn't it a Russian who is currently the head of the ISU? Huge clout and conflicts of interest. This is not going to die down easily. While it is not Valieva's fault, if she wins under this cloud, it's not going to be good for figure skating.

The training methods under Eteri have already not been good for health and career longevity of any of the young male and female athletes Eteri has trained. Scandalous isn't even the right word for what we are seeing and have been seeing in so many aspects of this sport. The long term outcome needs to be thorough investigation of the adults involved, and lifetime bans.

I also don't see how if Valieva wins the individual gold that she should be allowed to keep it under the rules in place for all the athletes.

 

[fabienne1996]

Rather than advancing 24 skaters to the free program, they'll advance 25. There's no "new girl." It just means that one more of the existing field will get to skate again.

This decision was reached so that if she is ultimately disqualified no one can make the claim that another skater was denied entry to the free program.

You're right about the other matter. If she medals, there will be no ceremony. The IOC isn't giving her a medal until the issue of her eligibility is cleared once and for all.

the no medal ceremony if she medals is probably also for practical reasons , in that way if kamila does not get cleared in the investigation afterwards and gets a ban and gets the medals taken away it means they dont have to gte the medals back from each of the medalists and send them new ones ,

Actually, the whole granpa story can be kind of verified and without too much difficulties.
Time passed till actual test is know, concentration in the sample in known (lab measured metabolites, so it can be calculated).
Age, gender, mass, other relevant things are also known (or can be measured if something like blood pH is required to very high precision or I do not know what is important here).

If she drinks from that glass, so she can say how much she drank (let's say 2 sips) - so amount of water with supposed TMZ is also known.
If her grandpa really has heart problems (can be verified via his doctor) and he takes TMZ (probably by doctor prescription, which can be verified) or by pharmacy checks or whatever. And he also can say how much water he drank.

So at the end we have required concentration of TMZ that has to be in that water. If that is possible to achieve f.e. by taking broken pill in the mouth and taking specified amount of sips from that glass, I can believe her. Quite low chances that all numbers fit just randomly.

question is how much she had that it could have lasted 5 days or more because the test was on 25.12, , sp one day before and the draw for sp i think was around the 20.12 correct me please if. am wrong so how so how high would have the dosis for a one time only dosis to be that it could be traced for more than 5 days. ? and it means if they use the defense now that they knew her test could come back positive?

 

[esteticlove]

If Kamila is as good as they say (which assuming she isn't doping, I would say she is that good), then this whole "once in a lifetime Olympic moment" and "irreparable harm" that CAS is alluding to is total BS. Kamila would be able to survive a temporary suspension, and essentially dominate the next Olympic quad going into 2026. The only reason this feels like Kamila's one shot at Olympic gold is because everyone is aware of how disposable these young ladies are in the Eteri camp. Tbh, even without this doping scandal, I could not see Kamila staying relevant beyond one or two more seasons after this one...because that's just how brutal (and now we can plausibly say, "abusive") the Eteri camp is.

They are not disposable in Eteri's camp, but within the Russian quota of only 3 places for the Olympics. Lift the quotas and let them skate according to the world rankings, then the Olys will turn into another Russian Nationals and would be actually interesting to watch.

 

[fabienne1996]

oh and the latest news are that rusada actually forgot to flag kamilas probe as a priority sample which it should have been so the lab did not know that the sample should have been fast tracked. i would guess that the probe from euros was flagged which is the reason it got fast tracked and the results were there before the results from rusnats. so its not the labs fault according to WADA.

https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1493155423746236417?t=ay0yO3ox4Yl37nOEIRJ0zQ&s=19

 

[fabienne1996]

with that decision that was made , figure skating just became known as the sport that lost a lot of credibility in a lot of country's ,many skaters be it current or. retired are angry , shocked and sad and find it unfair to every other athlete. i think that decision will do kamlia more harm than anything else. how will it feel if the other athletes feel angry , how will it feel that she doesnt know if she medals if she does have to give it back or not?

 

[NaVi]

oh and the latest news are that rusada actually forgot to flag kamilas probe as a priority sample which it should have been so the lab did not know that the sample should have been fast tracked. i would guess that the probe from euros was flagged which is the reason it got fast tracked and the results were there before the results from rusnats. so its not the labs fault according to WADA.

https://twitter.com/rockerskating/status/1493155423746236417?t=ay0yO3ox4Yl37nOEIRJ0zQ&s=19

Actually, the latest news is that RUSADA claims that the WADA lab emailed to say they would send the results before the end of January.

The athlete's sample, taken on December 25, 2021, was delivered to the laboratory in time sufficient to perform the analysis within the standard time frame.

After the expiration of the international standard, the laboratory informed the agency of delays in testing and reporting by the laboratory due to another wave of COVID-19, an increase in the incidence among laboratory staff and quarantine rules.

At the same time, in its messages, the laboratory indicated the deadlines for the availability of the analysis results, allowing to receive information from the laboratory until the end of January 2022, that is, before the start of the Olympic Games in Beijing. Also, in January, the laboratory informed that the analysis would be performed as a priority, however, an adverse analysis report was submitted on February 7, 2022.

РУСАДА о деле Валиевой: «Проба спортсменки была доставлена в лабораторию в срок, достаточный для выполнения анализа в стандартные временные рамки»

РУСАДА про допинг Валиевой, комментарий российского антидопингового агентства про допинг на Олимпиаде 2022

www.sports.ru

 

[4everchan]

Am I the only one to feel that there are a lot of bits and parts of the story that are being purposely released one by one, contradicting one another, just to confuse everyone about what is really happening??? Folks, there is only one thing that matters : the test was positive.

 

[Scott512]

I have seen very little castigation of the girl. The system? Yes. The chicken heartedness of IOC/WADA/ISU to take a stand? Absolutely. Most see Valieva as a victim who will become collateral damage

Lots of castigation.

The IOC rules say they can't take strong action against an under age Olympic athlete. But I don't particularly like any of those organizations that you mentioned. Or the Rusfed and Rusada. I think they all need to be turned over and get fresh blood in there.

 

[Joe Mendoza]

Has anyone actually read the ISU Anti-Doping Rules (link) and Procedures (link) in detail?

I wonder, based on what has transpired these past week, which portions of these rules and procedures ISU would actually change and I wonder if those would be aligned with what WADA would/should be changing.