Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Mista Ekko]

I've been reading this thread for a few days... and... I was curious about the legal aspect. I routinely interpret legal texts in the context of work disputes (union/osh stuff).

So I made an account to share my findings and my interpretation here. That's all. I'm not a skating fan... I'm a legal text fan.

Then by all means help us out
I know I've adjusted my view on some aspects of this about 2 or 3 times in 180 pages
with the rate new (or old) findings have been introduced here.

 

[Draculus]

hmm, i don't know. it seems like its an indicator they moved to TMZ despite it being banned since Valieva tested positive for it

Why to TMZ?

 

[el henry]

@HisShadowBG is there a reason you are placing "laughing icons" on so many posters' posts (including mine)?

If you have something to share, I would like to hear it, and I can agree or disagree.

If you think you are mocking other posters, or laughing because you don't like the post, I don't think it's working

 

[Mista Ekko]

I didn't know Grandpa attended Russian Nationals... my bad.. just me again

I bet he even brought his favourite mug with him to the venue.

 

[Draculus]

Kevin Costner love him

Agree, it's a VEEEERY strong substance.

 

[ManyCairns]

And how does this contradict to what I've said? I have basically said the same thing in my last 2-3 posts only phrased a bit differently.

Where you said "If she had I don't know, an concentration equal to consuming 1 whole tablet of TMZ this version would have probably been dismissed right away without any further investigation."

I don't think they ruled on anything about the potential doping itself, just the procedural aspects of the provisional suspension. In other words, regardless of the concentration, however big or small.

That doesn't matter.

"Doping" is ingesting a banned substance. It is banned. If apple pie is a banned substance, and I am proven to have eaten apple pie, I am a doper. After the fact "oh it doesn't really help" does not relieve one from the duty to not ingest it.

Jumping off and not directed at your post, (although it may address some of the issues)

1. TMZ doesn't really help performance : irrelevant to whether the athlete ingested it.

2. No reason/motivation: irrelevant to whether the athlete ingested it.

3. They can't be that stupid: really? Someone came up with the gem that is Grandpa's Glass

4. Everyone else does it/all these other athletes got off: irrelevant to whether this athlete ingested it.

And yes, I will repeat myself every ten screens or so, just for good measure.

If Kamila is found to have a defense to the positive test after a hearing, then she is not a doper. If she does not, then she is. ETA: At this point, she was allowed to participate procedurally, but nothing has been proven to contraindicate the positive test. So as of now, she did "dope".

Brilliant!!!! But let me ask, "el henry, what if I ate only one bite of apple pie, not ten whole pies?" (that bite may or may not have been from my own fork)

 

[taikwan]

If i were a commentator, I would have kept silent during the performance. Again, nothing against Kamila, but against the people who manage her, and also the people who manage the sports entity. There were better decisions to be made.

IMO - I feel it took a bit of courage to state emphatically that testing positive is a disqualifier no matter who you are, no matter how many quads you can perform. And that the Olympics is about a standard - that applied to everyone. If you break the promise you made as an Olympian, you don't deserve to compete against others who abide by the rules. And the rule/standard for any competition is ...well.....to be c-l-e-a-n. It's like allowing one athlete to begin a race early, downhill while others wait for the signal to begin and they have to run uphill. It really is black and white - absolutely no gray.

 

[HisShadowBG]

@HisShadowBG is there a reason you are placing "laughing icons" on so many posters' posts (including mine)?

If you have something to share, I would like to hear it, and I can agree or disagree.

If you think you are mocking other posters, or laughing because you don't like the post, I don't think it's working

What is the problem with me laughing at naive comments i consider funny if i want to share something i will . Also it seems to be working alright if you noticed

 

[el henry]

....

Brilliant!!!! But let me ask, "el henry, what if I ate only one bite of apple pie, not ten whole pies?" (that bite may or may not have been from my own fork)

You only ever test for Gala apples. I know you're a hater because you never ever test for Golden Delicious, only Galas. Hater, hater, hater of Galas.

Grammy made the apple pie while downing every medication she's on (and it's Grammy, she's on a lot).

Galas are terrible apples. Why would I risk my career eating such a tasteless apple?

And so on....

 

[macy]

@HisShadowBG is there a reason you are placing "laughing icons" on so many posters' posts (including mine)?

If you have something to share, I would like to hear it, and I can agree or disagree.

If you think you are mocking other posters, or laughing because you don't like the post, I don't think it's working

they've been doing it the entire (both?) threads. just trying to mock everyone.

 

[el henry]

they've been doing it the entire (both?) threads. just trying to mock everyone.

It's like arms above the head on *every* *single* *jump*.

The effect is not what they think it is

 

[macy]

It's like arms above the head on *every* *single* *jump*.

The effect is not what they think it is

oop you got a heart eyes on that one!

 

[kan01]

What is the problem with me laughing at naive comments i consider funny if i want to share something i will . Also it seems to be working alright if you noticed

Working for what? It seems you are the one who desperately wants to get noticed and boasting that it seems to be working . You're not laughing at naive comments, you're just desperately showing your frustration because people have different opinions than yours instead of respectfully replying and showing your own contradictory opinion with arguments. L to the A to the M to the E.

 

[macy]

Why to TMZ?

why did Eteri choose that drug? or why did Valieva test positive for it?

If they were using meldonium to help with stamina, then it makes sense for them to move to TMZ which has a similar effect.

why did did Valieva test positive for it? because someone gave it to her. EDIT: ask Eteri Tutberidze.

 

[renebaebae]

Had to revive my account to say that the sport is literally over if they are allowing a confirmed doped and drugged up athlete to compete against other clean ones. They need to investigate far enough back and strip her of her previous titles.

 

[flanker]

Brief, reasonable analysis. And a call for using brain instead of emotions:

Valieva skates as the rush to unwarranted judgment roars on | 3 Wire Sports

BEIJING — People, let’s smell the coffee, please. The world is not black and white. Them and us. Americans: you want to make like U.S. Olympic athletes have never, ever used performance-enhancing drugs. Like no one in a position of authority at the U.S. Olympic & Paralympic Committee has eve

www.3wiresports.com

There are possible outcomes:

Here is how the rules can work when the A and B are positive, and in this context for an in-competition test like the one Valieva took Dec. 25 at the Russian national championships:

1. The athlete is disqualified, and

2. Sanctioned with a period of ineligibility

How long is the sanction?

it depends on the type of substance — two or four years.

That two or four years is then eliminated or reduced (or sometimes increased) based on factors set out in the Code.

1. Someone “not at fault” can see the ineligibility period totally eliminated. See Code section 10.5

2. Someone “not at significant fault” can have the period reduced, and in the case of a “protected person” — not yet 16 — can be reduced to a warning or reprimand with no ineligibility. See 10.6 and for “protected person,” 10.6.1.3

3. Someone more at fault will get two to four years (depending on the substance and other factors)

In Valieva’s case, working through the intersection of what’s what, there would ultimately appear to be four possibilities:

1. She is cleared. Totally exonerated. That is, no doping violation of any sort. How? For example, the B sample doesn’t show trimetazidine.

2. A doping violation is confirmed — some level of TMZ in the B — but she is found not at fault. Result: no ineligibility.

3. Doping violation confirmed but she is found “not to have significant fault,” and given the minimum penalty, which for a “protected person” is a reprimand or warning and no ineligibility

4. Doping violation confirmed, she is found to have some fault and given up to two years off.

And this:

The three-judge panel had to balance a lot of stuff. This is what judges do, right? Here: “fundamental principles of fairness, proportionality, irreparable harm and the relative balance of interests as between the Applicants,” meaning the ITA and the other institutions appealing the lifting provisional suspension, “and the Athlete,” Valieva.

“Irreparable harm” is one of those bits of jargon that lawyers toss around. In this instance, going back to the four options above, if Valieva were not allowed to skate and the ultimate finding is any of the first three scenarios, she would be permanently harmed by missing her chance to medal when she would have been found not to have done anything wrong that made her ineligible to compete at the Olympics.

That would be a harm that can’t be undone. That is “irreparable harm.”

On the other hand:

If she were allowed to compete and the fourth scenario is finally what’s what — she ultimately is found to have committed a doping violation, one with enough fault to have been ineligible here in Beijing — she will be disqualified and the other skaters will move up in the standings.

Those skaters will be harmed by not having their moment in the spotlight, no question. But, in the end, they will get their medals. Just like the Nigerians got their golds when the U.S. relay team got stripped after the Jerome Young saga.

 

[skatedreamer]

I've been reading this thread for a few days... and... I was curious about the legal aspect. I routinely interpret legal texts in the context of work disputes (union/osh stuff).

So I made an account to share my findings and my interpretation here. That's all. I'm not a skating fan... I'm a legal text fan.

Kudos to you -- I'm a contracts specialist but haven't had the intestinal fortitude (or the time) to wade through all the legal material on this.

Is there anything we can do to turn you into a figure skating fan? Like any sport, it has its share of controversy but isn't usually this bad. I love it for the artistry and the music. At its best, it's ballet on ice.

I mean, look: in FS, skaters routinely launch themselves into the air, turn around 3-4 times, land on one leg on a blade 1/8 inch wide., and look gorgeous doing it. On ICE! For somebody like me who can barely stay upright even in snow boots, that's just absolufreakinlutely amazing...

 

[millie]

I

Agree, it's a VEEEERY strong substance.

I didn't know Grandpa attended Russian Nationals... my bad.. just me again

That exactly what I was thinking! These are questions that I would have asked….
Did he have the mug with him and his medication at the medal ceremony?
Was she staying with her grandpa during that time?
Where was her grandpa staying at that time?
A good prosecutor will ask all those question.
How did she know what his medication looked like and what was it called.
How could she remember months later that she drank from that cup and to remember what was in it? There was no denying that she took the TMZ because she sdmitted that she drank from the contaminated mug…
This sounds like the game of “CLUE”.

 

[kan01]

They need to investigate far enough back and strip her of her previous titles.

They won't because that's not how corruption works. I feel sad for the clean athletes because a lot of viewers of figure skating will be lost after this competition (including myself). But it will also make parents of little children think twice before investing a lot of money in a potential career in the sport for their children.

 

[prorussian fan]

I guess I am starved of attention enough to quote myself here ... but anyway ... please tell me is it worth my time to read through all 179 pages of this thread that I missed? Should I? Should I not?

I am intruiged but simultaneously I do think that I can spend my time better! I mean it is like falling into a black hole.

It's like an addiction. Even though I know that you will probably read absurd, nationalist or fanatic comments, I couldn't help but stop reading. I only know that here there is already a retinue of expert researchers, pharmacists, lawyers and doctors with too much wasted talent. LOL (WADA and IOC, do not investigate any more, here is the answer from the experts)