Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Mista Ekko]

It's interesting how the skating of 15 y/o's Tara and Kamila compare against one another. It certainly doesn't flatter little Tara.

Are we shading Lipinski now?

She won an Olympic competition fair and square.

 

[Bentley]

I would like to stuff a rag in Weir and Lipinski's mouth. Like they had no controversies when
they were skating. Tara won her Olympic Gold at 15 and many thought she should not have been their
either. Going to be funny watching them get themselves all twisted in a knot if Kamila wins gold, which
I fully expect her too. No one else come close to her. Except Anna.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Valieva trained for many years for that moment. I can't even imagine how hard it was for her to become undoubtly the best in the Russian ladies field.
And you want her to give up on the dream just to appease the hateful mob.
Especially if she knows she didn't dope.
That's pure lunacy.

My problem is I’m stuck somewhere in between agreeing with this line of thinking while also understanding why maybe I would have preferred she weren’t competing as a gesture not only to her teammates but to the rest of the field. I won’t blame or judge her either way at this point. Not enough is known for that.

I’m curious how I’m going to feel watching her skate. I’m such a softy I bet I’ll just feel for her and hope she lands everything and beats my favorites proper.

I think "western" is some kind of code word for American, but I'm not into deciphering code words. Brazil is a country west of the prime meridian. Morocco is west of the prime meridian. Code words don't help.

IIRC from college (maybe Psychology even) Western Culture refers to countries in the Western Hemisphere that were settled primarily from European decedents. For instance...Western was mostly a reference to Western European culture until it began to migrate to the Americas . While that is a good amount of countries I’d say the term Western in reference to Media would probably be a reference to the US since we probably have the most obnoxious media on the planet with Canada (don Cherry) being a distant second

 

[4everchan]

Enough with the speech "the sport is over for letting a dirty athlete compete". If there are regulations and standards that do not cover all cases, it is WADA's problem, not Kamila's. That Russia failed again, that is just a baseless anti-Russian nationalist argument. This is an isolated case and if Kamila is found guilty, it will not be because there is a state regime or something similar. Leave your heart and think with your head, a little common sense.

there is a difference between anti-Russian and anti-doping... when the Chinese swimmers were caught doping, I was just as vocal about how disturbing it was and how they should be all banned from FINA for a while... same here... there is a reason for ROC.

 

[Bentley]

Are we shading Lipinski now?

She won an Olympic competition fair and square.

Some still say Kwan was the winner.

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

If I were the IOC I would have allowed Kami's participation with reservation without affecting the podium of the others. That is if the results ended: 1. Kami, 2/3/4. Anna, Sasha/Kaori, give gold, silver and bronze to 2/3/4 places in Beijing and if Kami is proven innocent, give her gold/silver/bronze medal, depending on where she finishes, in another event.

I would do that if it were very likely Kamila would not win her case. However, my guess is that since she is a protected athlete and was given the green light to compete here, it's 50/50 whether she receives a suspension or just a warning. Personally, I'm not convinced by any of her defenses thus far because they seem to be more about protecting the adults in her orbit, and I would strip her of her titles unless she names names. No one will be held accountable if the drinking-from-grandpas-cup excuse is accepted by CAS.

 

[Sam-Skwantch]

Some still say Kwan was the winner.

This is why figure skating will never die

 

[drivingmissdaisy]

Some still say Kwan was the winner.

No one says this.

 

[Mista Ekko]

Some still say Kwan was the winner

Lipinski is probably one of the least controversial winners of that title.

Kamila's SP for me is a figure skating marvel, and she is capable of much more than Lipinski of course,
but honestly I'd rather watch Tara's "Rainbow" again over sitting through "Bolero".

 

[el henry]

Are we shading Lipinski now?

She won an Olympic competition fair and square.

Yes and "little Tara". Oh please

But since we are still talking about outraged skaters, I will jump off with other statements from other outraged skaters:








I'll stop here. There are many, many more,

Drawing attention to outraged skaters is not exactly a pro-Kamila flex

 

[skatedreamer]

They keep throwing America under the bus due to the traditional power of their media and/or everything else, and the propaganda currently being aimed at the US. They cannot see the forest for the trees. When they say western, they don't actually mean western but the US and only the US. I too sympathize with Kamila and disappointed that this happened to her. But she shouldn't be held above the rules because she's 15 and competing with adults. If she's old enough to compete, she's old enough to suffer the consequence of actions, whether it was her doing or adults around her.

It's also possible that much of the vitriol is rooted in old Cold War politics. I'm old enough to remember some of that. Americans and Russians of...a certain age grew up thinking of each other as The Bad Guys. To some extent it's still a part of my mindset and over the past week I've really had to think twice about some of my responses to this situation. That's what they call a teachable moment, right?

 

[skatedreamer]

Are we shading Lipinski now?

She won an Olympic competition fair and square.

She did, dang it.

I've posted elsewhere that I still feel bad about it (BIG Michelle fan) but the fact remains that Tara gave the best performance that night. Michelle left it all on the ice at US Nats that year. Her Olympic skate was fine but lacked the spark and passion she had at US Nats. Tara was like a little jumping bean and...welll... JMO.

 

[[email protected]]

No reputable company is going to endorse her at this point. They won't touch her with a 10 foot pole! She'll only be skating in a few skate shows in Russia and then fade away. Its too bad as she was a talented skater without the doping. Karma can be a bitch sometimes...

And there might be another point when she is cleared of all accusations. Let's wait and see.

 

[Draculus]

But that just makes things worse for all Russian athletes if the case is upheld and Kamila loses her medals.

People will point to their reactions and say "You see? All Russians are cheaters, they just care if they're caught, they're probably all doping with some undetectable drugs. Throw them out of all sports, wipe them from the record books."

I'm not saying the should condemn Kamila, of course not but RUSADA could have taken a stand here and shown that Russians DO care about fair play and clean sport. Instead they let national pride take over. The Russian Figure Skating Federation could have insisted that in these circumstances Kamila needed to withdraw.

In this situation where there's an actual positive test rather than unfounded rumors this was a foolhardy approach to take.

For the sake of Russian sport PR worldwide - yes, I would agree, better withdraw Kamilla.
For for her - no. Original claim was that it is better for her and I disagree with it.

 

[millie]

Lipinski is probably the second least controversial winner of a ladies event in 30 years
after Yuna Kim, and Kwan definitely brought it as well, but had a nervy FS with no 3-3s
so the case isn't super strong there.

Kamila's SP for me is a figure skating marvel, and she is capable of much more of course,
but honestly I'd rather watch Tera's "Rainbow" again over sitting through "Bolero".

Valieva trained for many years for that moment. I can't even imagine how hard it was for her to become undoubtly the best in the Russian ladies field.
And you want her to give up on the dream just to appease the hateful mob.
Especially if she knows she didn't dope.
That's pure lunacy.

It’s all in the pee sample…

 

[el henry]

My problem is I’m stuck somewhere in between agreeing with this line of thinking while also understanding why maybe I would have preferred she weren’t competing as a gesture not only to her teammates but to the rest of the field. I won’t blame or judge her either way at this point. Not enough is known for that.

I’m curious how I’m going to feel watching her skate. I’m such a softy I bet I’ll just feel for her and hope she lands everything and beats my favorites proper.

IIRC from college (maybe Psychology even) Western Culture refers to countries in the Western Hemisphere that were settled primarily from European decedents. For instance...Western was mostly a reference to Western European culture until it began to migrate to the Americas . While that is a good amount of countries I’d say the term Western in reference to Media would probably be a reference to the US since we probably have the most obnoxious media on the planet with Canada (don Cherry) being a distant second

I never learned any of that, and it's still confusing to me. Particularly in the context of skating. If you mean American, and you want me to understand you, say American.

And I'm sorry Sam, about American media just isn't my experience. You will need to trust me that in the languages I read, obnoxious media exist, and exist in proportion to their population, just as much as Americans. It's just that I live here, so I see more of what they are saying.

I will agree about Don Cherry

 

[Draculus]

With regards to “foreign” media not being able to overcome it for her, they all are stating the truth and the news because the media like all of us, we are disgusted with the Russian doping of athletes.

But the problem (?) is that Russians do not care.

 

[Sloopy]

I would need to disagree with one point:

Americans do care about the doping story, because they care about fair play. And many many people are comparing this to the Sha'Carri Richardson case (which I believe is completely different, but that's not the point).

Do they care because of Team Event medals. No, they do not. Right now, some Americans could tell you who Nathan Chen is. And that's about it. They wouldn't even know Madi and Zach.

Whether the TE medals are gold, silver, bronze or plastic, 99% of Americans could give a rat's patootie. About the US or anyone else.

Thanks El Henry. I guess I should have clarified that I was speaking in relationship to the Team event medal and the US moving up to a gold medal from the consequences of a doping scandal. Most don't even know or care that Team received a medal or would have received a gold medal for that event. I also was trying to point out that millions of Americans are not watching the Olympics on TV and that the ratings were way down.

 

[skatedreamer]

My problem is I’m stuck somewhere in between agreeing with this line of thinking while also understanding why maybe I would have preferred she weren’t competing as a gesture not only to her teammates but to the rest of the field. I won’t blame or judge her either way at this point. Not enough is known for that.

I’m curious how I’m going to feel watching her skate. I’m such a softy I bet I’ll just feel for her and hope she lands everything and beats my favorites proper.

IIRC from college (maybe Psychology even) Western Culture refers to countries in the Western Hemisphere that were settled primarily from European decedents. For instance...Western was mostly a reference to Western European culture until it began to migrate to the Americas . While that is a good amount of countries I’d say the term Western in reference to Media would probably be a reference to the US since we probably have the most obnoxious media on the planet with Canada (don Cherry) being a distant second

Now just hold on a minute. Some US media are certainly obnoxious but what about the London tabloids like the Daily Mirror? If there were an OGM for gross and obnoxious, I'd put my money on the London tabloids for sure!

 

[Draculus]

But she will probable become persona non grata on the international arena, no big ad contracts, no skate shows. She's already been kind of "cancelled" in the US, even before any investigation took place. Even if she is exonerated in a legal sense I am afraid it won't change much. People have made up their minds as you can see, and it will take a "clearing" campaign of the same magnitude to repair the damage, which will never happen, for obvious reasons.

I think ppl in general have a very short memory. And Europe is much easier on her, US does not matter for top Russian skaters anymore (for shows). "International Ad contracts" - I really doubt that it matters for her.
Even in a bad outcome with this story I really doubt that Kamilla have a bad future.
As long as she has 'it' in her skates - ppl will come to see her. When she lost it - it does not matter anymore