Why so much bitterness and hostility?

[krenseby]

I don't understand the bitterness and hostility that Evan and Johnny have lately shown towards each other! As well as the drama stirred up on this board.

Seems to me people can't see the simple fact that two skaters can often be neck to neck against each other and a narrow win is something for both to be proud of.

When Miki beat Mao at Worlds, I don't think either of them took it too seriously. Neither the Japanese federation nor Miki herself decided that Miki's win made her to be "a more succesful skater" than Mao.

Why can't then that Evan, Johnny, and the US federation see the matter in the same way. Evan and Johnny will still face each other at Worlds and at the GP. The competition between them seem to be rather close. And yet some fans and even Johnny and Evan that a national titlle, no matter by how small a margin it is win (even by a margin of 0.00000) really sets one skater up as a winner and the other as the loser.

(And yes, even if the judges happen to be biased towards Johnny, which I am unsure about, that will surely not be the case in international competitions! A really strong skater will eventually come out on top on the international level.)

 

[76olympics]

I don't care for the trash talking either and it's doesn't matter if it has happened before or not between other skaters or in other countries. I wish they had canned some of the "rivalry" footage and screened a two minute fluff on Christopher Bowman. For all his well-known failings, that would have been a better use of film. When he passed, I looked at some of the old fluffs and footage on You Tube and there was a fluff from 1989 Nationals featuring Wylie and Bowman. Clearly, you couldn't pick two more different individuals than this, and they acknowledged it pretty frankly. But, they were both light-hearted and classy in the things they chose to say. I doubt they encountered each other outside of competitions and Paul was probably studying when Chris was on the street, but you didn't get the bitter tinge that I pick up from that coverage last night.

That said.. as far as Weir and Lysacek go...

I like some things about both of them - though neither is my favorite. Good luck to both of them at Worlds; they are both representing us. I think it's better if we have skaters with contrasting styles ; it keeps thingson the ice interesting.

 

[demarinis5]

I don't understand the bitterness and hostility that Evan and Johnny have lately shown towards each other! As well as the drama stirred up on this board.

Seems to me people can't see the simple fact that two skaters can often be neck to neck against each other and a narrow win is something for both to be proud of.

When Miki beat Mao at Worlds, I don't think either of them took it too seriously. Neither the Japanese federation nor Miki herself decided that Miki's win made her to be "a more succesful skater" than Mao.

Why can't then that Evan, Johnny, and the US federation see the matter in the same way. Evan and Johnny will still face each other at Worlds and at the GP. The competition between them seem to be rather close. And yet some fans and even Johnny and Evan that a national titlle, no matter by how small a margin it is win (even by a margin of 0.00000) really sets one skater up as a winner and the other as the loser.

(And yes, even if the judges happen to be biased towards Johnny, which I am unsure about, that will surely not be the case in international competitions! A really strong skater will eventually come out on top on the international level.)

Good post and thanks for starting this thread. The bitterness and hostility on this board is nothing compared to other boards.If you so much as mention that you understand why Evan won the FS under the rules you get flamed and lynched. I am sure a lot of Evan fans are lurking right know. I can uinderstand people getting upset about the way things turned out but that is the system we have now and it is not going to change. A clean skate does not necessarily mean you will win the event it is all about the points. I have seen a lot of breakdowns with the scores by posters questioning the judges marks and some of it makes sense yet it still does not convince me that there was blatant cheating. I am sure glad I am not an uber fan of Johnny's or Evan's right now.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's all about devotion to one of the skaters. I believe Johnny has more fans than Evan and therefore the attacks on Evan are inevitable.

Since I am not devoted to either Johnny or Evan, I can look at it as I did in St.Paul. Neither of them were at their best while all the other top contestants were at their best. For me, Evan was an over-the-top drama king while Johnny lost all his body language to ensure his elements. Neither was not good for me.

Scott Smith set the barre with his skate, the best he has ever done.
Jeremy Abbot surprised me with his skate. Finally a beaut of a routine.
Stephen Carriere did not surprise me. He is just cool under fire.

IMO, anyone of the 5 could have won the competition, and I would have approved.

Joe

 

[Mathman]

Johnny Weir has a lot of passionate fans on Internet forums, plus he is the only U.S. skater in any discipline who enjoys a substantial international fan base. This makes it seem like everyone is for Johnny and against Evan. But I doon't think that's true. Evan is equally popluar among the rank-and-file, they are just not so vocal about it.

Anyway, about the "hostility" -- I think it's a hoot. Like a World Wrestling Federation Smackdown (except wrestling has better chpreography).

 

[Penny]

Exactly. Anything to fire up the ratings.

I was very impressed with Jeremy Abbott and his beautifully choreographed programs.

 

[Ausrick]

I believe Johnny has more fans than Evan and therefore the attacks on Evan are inevitable.

A simple question then. Why does Johnny have more fans than Evan ? Could it be so simple a thing as that people (world-wide) enjoy watching Johnny skate more than they do Evan ?

For me, Evan was an over-the-top drama king while Johnny lost all his body language to ensure his elements.

Is it that the control and discipline he exhibited that you are now so quick to denigrate, is exactly what so many really admire about what he has managed to achieve ?

He took an unbelievable pounding during and after the Olympics, mainly because of his naievity in handling the press.

It's clear to all that he was profoundly hurt by all that, but despite all that, he can still 'get it together' to be clearly the best US Ice-Man.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

My comments are those of corrective criticisms. Johnny Weir is an exceptional skater for his time in this era. I just believe he can be better under Tarrasova than under his present camp.

Joe

 

[Winnipeg]

My comments are those of corrective criticisms. Johnny Weir is an exceptional skater for his time in this era. I just believe he can be better under Tarrasova than under his present camp.

Joe

Another thread has him planning to skate for Russia after 2010? I noted he spoke Russian on the K and C area??

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Generally, the bitterness and hostility has more to do with being a fan than the actual competition. Its pretty normal for fans to be passionate about their favs and hostil towards the rival team. For example: my husband & his friends are a diehard Michigan fans. As an Ohio State fan, I have become used to and actually enjoy the drama we create in November... espcially the time my hubby's best friend announced that this should be grounds for divorce... granted, my response of good, I'll remarry Troy Smith didn't exactly improve the situation...

But if its all in good, passionate fun - then so what? No blood, no foul.

Skating is different because its all so subjective - whose jump was better, who spins faster - who simply gives you butterflies & whatnot. Fans were promised that CoP would eliminate this and judging would be "fair." For many of us, we simply haven't seen that... Or I should say I don't see that... what I see is sloppy skating, messy turns, bad edges and strange cheorography and don't get me started on the death of the clean program... But this is supposed to be "fair" and adding intergrity to the sport. And that's fine - if & when it works... But has it?

On Sunday - I watched two top US skaters compete and one, in my opinion, was significantly better / cleaner... and then the score is tied. Huh? It simply doesn't make sense and I've been a fan of skating for so long that I'm pretty immune to poor judging - but it just seems like Evan was given his title vs. competed for it.. and that's sad.

 

[jennylovskt]

That's the way things work. The judges keep fuel up.

I do enjoy Evan's skating. Of course, I appreciate his charactors more than his skating. I like Johnny's skating, but that's about the only thing I like. I think the bitterness and hostility, if there is any, are not towarding to the two skaters. It's about the justice that people feel the need to defend according to their own judgement. We can't avoid them, or there will be no more forums. The only thing people can do, IMHO, is to express them in a gentler way.

Joe, I think that there is no devotion to either of these two skaters in many cases. It's about the justice. Some feel the result is justified, some feel it's not. Of course, some ardent fans will defend whatever comes regardless.

 

[chuckm]

I just watched the Men's medal ceremony on IceNetwork. I don't think Evan was overly thrilled that Johnny got a bigger hand than he did--when each came out on the ice, and as the medals were being given.

There's no doubt that it's not just outside the US that Johnny is more popular than Evan. If Evan weren't always so dour and sulky when he wins and so whiny when he loses, maybe the ranks of his fans would increase. Methinks the dude takes himself much too seriously. Fans who have met Evan say that he is standoffish and just a tad snotty.

 

[demarinis5]

I just watched the Men's medal ceremony on IceNetwork. I don't think Evan was overly thrilled that Johnny got a bigger hand than he did--when each came out on the ice, and as the medals were being given.

There's no doubt that it's not just outside the US that Johnny is more popular than Evan. If Evan weren't always so dour and sulky when he wins and so whiny when he loses, maybe the ranks of his fans would increase. Methinks the dude takes himself much too seriously. Fans who have met Evan say that he is standoffish and just a tad snotty.

I don't get your post. What does it have to do with the theme of this thread which is hostility and bitterness. Unless you are saying that Johnny being more popular than Evan causes hostility and bitterness.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It's all about the CoP who wins and who doesn't, and we will see Johnny and Evan up against Daisuke, Tomas, Brian and Stephane. Maybe we can include Jeffrey and Patrick? Will that be a contest?????

Joe

 

[Mathman]

A simple question then. Why does Johnny have more fans than Evan ? Could it be so simple a thing as that people (world-wide) enjoy watching Johnny skate more than they do Evan ?

I think that is indeed the reason. IMHO, no matter what the new judging sytem tells us, from the fans' perspective figure skating is a second mark sport.

People like to watch beautiful skating. If you want to see someone jump high or run fast, you can go to a track meet. No need to have music playing if your main interest is in seeing feats of athletic prowess.

I agree with Joe that Johnny, like all skaters, must sacrifice his artistic vision if he wants to score a lot of CoP points. To me, Johnny's exhibition numbers are ten times better than his competitve routines.

 

[GoldMedalist]

Scott Smith set the barre with his skate, the best he has ever done.
Jeremy Abbot surprised me with his skate. Finally a beaut of a routine.
Stephen Carriere did not surprise me. He is just cool under fire.

IMO, anyone of the 5 could have won the competition, and I would have approved.

Awww, you just made Ryan Bradley cry. Wet, silent Charlie Chaplin tears.

 

[AdamFan]

The issue is clearly a personal issue between the two of them. If you read Johnny's Q+A's and Journals, it is pretty obvious exactly what it is. You just have to add in some common sense.

 

[Nadine]

Regarding the poster's original question:

Skating has always been like this, and as far as the internet goes, it has also always been like this since I've been following the skating boards since 1999. It was a thousand times worse when Tara Lipinski won over Michelle Kwan in 1998, and so on...

After a while, you will notice a pattern, some never getting over a loss that happened years or decades ago. And that's their right, it comes with the territory. If you don't like it, ignore it, it's better for peace of mind. Just some friendly advise from a fellow f.s. fan.

edited to add: actually if you're an armchair psychologist like me , at times it can be really interesting over the years to psychoanalyze; better than reading a book, lol.

 

[Vodka Shot]

It's just a sport. Being a sport fan is one of the rare times in life that one can be completely irrational. Next time I'm at a football game I'm going to turn to the screaming cussing dude next to me and say, "You need to calm down. You're a clearly an ubber fan and are showing bias in who you root for." and see how hard I get punched. This is what people do in sports, they shoot the trash talk. It doesn't mean anything terrible.

Obviously some of the bitterness from fans at the moment is because many feel Johnny should have won and honestly looking at the skating and then comparing it to the protocols I agree with that assessment.

The bitterness between them personally is probably a bit show, a little personal (we'll never know what it's about) and a lot just simple competitiveness.

 

[heyang]

I think some of Johnny's fans enjoy him because of his 'rebelious' actions. They seem him as not being cookie cutter. He also seem to interact with his fans more than Evan (I don't think Evan has an line journal, etc.)

Personally, I prefer Evan's style. I do think Weir put his head into play this year and really worked hard.

So, as an objective fan, I can understand why Evan won Nationals this year based upon the current rules. If this had been 6.0, I would've given it to Johnny, instead. However, this is just a classic example of why COP is even worse than 6.0 for the casual viewer. I can explain ordinals and placements , but I can't quickly explain points, GOE's and PCS scores.

BTW, as a Kwan fan, I readily understood why Tara won Oly gold in 98. I didn't even have a problem with Sarah Hughes getting gold, but I did have a problem with Irina getting silver over Kwan's bronze in 2002.