Why are backflips so overhyped? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

Why are backflips so overhyped?

Magill said:
But the way Ilia took away the pleasure of performing the first backflip on the Olympic ice after it's been allowed again from the one who actually forced ISU to make it legal.... no, that's not cool.
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Wait, wait. You're blaming Ilia for skating his program in the Team Event while France put Kevin Aymose in the team SP and they didn't make the final, thus putting Adam's 2026 Olympic debut back a few days?

By the way, for me the only current skater whose backflip looks cool is Keegan Messing. :)
 
Mathman said:
I think that this sentence answers the question of why the iSU is suddenly so pleased with moves like this. The powers that be are slowly but surely transforming the sport into skateboarding, skiing ariels, doing tricks on dirt bikes, and performing to teenage popular music.

The goal is to attract a younger audience to the sport -- quick, before us old codgers and biddies die out. ;)
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Backreading, but I personally find it so insulting that the ISU thinks that backflips is what you need to get teenagers interested to follow the sport. As if we can't appreciate classical lines and good edges. lmao.
I don't use Tiktok for personal preferences, but the reason why casual fans like the figure skating "aesthetic", to call it that, is *because* and not despite the elegance needed that goes into it.
And yes, this sport has to fight with stereotypes, especially in men's FS but its not as if doing a backflip makes a routine more manly. It's a whole bunch of ** in my opinion.

While I don't subscribe to Malinin's version of artistry at times, it infuriates me that such good jumper wastes his time doing backflips. If he put that time into more edgework and transitions and would be able to do a quality 6-7 quad freeskate you'd get new fans too.

Edit: I guess the backflip looks cool to casuals, but it's not even the highest risk element Ilia can do! And one bad landing can mean massive injury. He is cautious with the 4A, understandably. But spamming backflips instead for GOEs on a choreo sequence? Man idk.
 
One thing that is being missed in this discussion-Ilia's one foot landing does get him points because it is part of his choreo sequence. The base level is like one point, but you can get GOE up to +5. This one was particularly well done, and he got high GOE for it.

His one foot flip is ideal for that purpose because it's hard, and no one else does it. In contrast, a lame choreo sequence that should get low GOE would involve sitting on the ice waving your arms.

Whether you like them or not, choreo skills are graded in all events. One of the purposes of having choreo skills is to allow creativity and skills that cannot be graded elsewhere. One problem with IJS is that when everything is graded, everything is old hat, codified and scored. There are few WOW moments. Choreo solves that if skaters have skill and creativity to do great choreo moves. Many do not take advantage of the opportunity to rack up points here. Ilia did.

So Ilia has been the first since Surya Bonaly to land a one foot landing backflip in the Olympics. Adam can still be the first to land a two foot landing backflip in the Olympics since Terry Kubicka.

BTW One of the original reasons given for making the backflip illegal was that good skating required one foot landings from jumps, preferably on an edge and so with good glide out. Surya's one foot landing was a silent argument against that excuse. She could do it because she was also a skilled gymnast, and had won a world silver medal in trampoline at the 1986 World Team Tumbling championships when she was 12.

en.wikipedia.org

Surya Bonaly - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
 
No, that's the intention of the choreo elements as defined- to encourage doing the unusual, creative, and difficult. Would you rather he sat on the ice waving his arms and then made an Instagram post, claiming it was difficult to do, very creative, and extremely artistic?

Ilia invented his raspberry twist for a previous choreo sequence-good on him for doing something different this year.
 
I'd rather have him work on his dancing skills, the lines, the grace and the beauty of his movement and the general flow which are still seriously lacking, For you know, you might call me conservative but I do not think you should have a high GOE on choreo without them, lol. Or high PCS on presentation, while we are at it.
Then maybe waving his arms would be somewhat more appealing, as he does a lot of it anyway, just without much grace. :laugh:

And let's be honest. Raspberry twist - while you're bringing it here - was a convoluted movement which was neither difficult, nor graceful. It was somewhat surprising at first, but once you got used to it, it was simply ugly. Meanwhile Adam's backflip introduced more or less at the same time got much more buzz on the SMNs, which I suspect was the real reason for the change. Creative? After Adam has forced ISU to make it legal? No.
 
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If you are his coach, you can tell him what to do. However, he is working on his other skills, and has improved.

But if you have an inherent talent for something, you would be silly not to take advantage of it. Ilia has a talent for knowing where he is in the air at all times.

I get it. You detest him for whatever reason. He is not my favorite skater either. But you should give him credit for what he does well. It is a sport, after all. That you can't give credit for what a skater does well says more about you than about the skater.
 
dorispulaski said:
If you are his coach, you can tell him what to do. However, he is working on his other skills, and has improved.

But if you have an inherent talent for something, you would be silly not to take advantage of it. Ilia has a talent for knowing where he is in the air at all times.

I get it. You detest him for whatever reason. He is not my favorite skater either. But you should give him credit for what he does well. It is a sport, after all. That you can't give credit for what a skater does well says more about you than about the skater.
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Let me remind you, this thread is not about Ilia Malinin but about backflips. I do not like them, and I do not think they should get high GOE as a choreo element. What does it say about me? That I do not like backflips and I do not think they should get high GOE as a choreo element.
Anything else is fantasizing, not to use the applicable technical term: "projection".
Otherwise, I am a casual viewer, a member of the public, I can like any public person or dislike them for whatever reason I choose, for whatever it is that appeals to me or puts me off, just like anyone else and there is no one telling me what I should give anyone credit for. You think he deserves credit? You give it to him. Personally I do not find him appealing neither as a skater, nor as a public persona, that's true. Yes, he's a good jumper but this is not what I find impressing in skaters. I am under no obligation to like him and his jumps, and that's the end of story.These constant expectations and demands that everyone is praising llia Malinin and his quads become somewhat annoying. When preceded or accompanied by mean or diminishing remarks about other skaters whoever you meant in your posts above, these appeals appear to be pure hypocrisy, that's all.
 
dorispulaski said:
No, that's the intention of the choreo elements as defined- to encourage doing the unusual, creative, and difficult. Would you rather he sat on the ice waving his arms and then made an Instagram post, claiming it was difficult to do, very creative, and extremely artistic?

Ilia invented his raspberry twist for a previous choreo sequence-good on him for doing something different this year.
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Indeed his previous compatriot hyped skater had even less "big step" difficulty in his Choreographic sequence, having seemingly a stamina problem, and would often get away with the highest GOEs of the competition (bar Jason Brown's, by little).
sportlandiamartina.link

Nathan Chen: ChSq1

English/Italiano English In my check on the elements executed by Nathan Chen I’m now at the ChSq1. I remember that In the first post of the series, dedicated to Hanyu’s 4Lo, I explained how I …
sportlandiamartina.link sportlandiamartina.link
So, we could say that, being the favoured American Figure Skater of the moment, the Backflip is by no way necessary for him to get sky-high GOE on the Choreographic Sequence; anyway nominally, it's only a way not to deserve a deduction for lack of choreographic moves? Although once again, given who he is, it wouldn't matter for the score. And as we can see, the lack of steps altogether doesn't change the judges' opinion.
Honestly, I would rather see in his Backflip the hope of some buzz among the general public.
 
1000004220.png

From this year's technical handbooks for singles on how to identify a choreo sequence

And here how judges determine GOE:

1000004221.png

So a +4 GOE is justified for Ilia for this backflip, for 4 out of 6 bullets. Note only one bullet has any reference to music or any other artistic consideration.

So for the question of use of a backflip in a choreo sequence, landing on one foot SP you can link to another movement in the sequence is a good idea
 
I don't think anyone questioned here backflips were within the rules. I think what was questioned were the rules themselves, and whether they made sense or not. With a pov that rather not.
And was the intention really to give +4 for another jump element instead of a decent choreo? :laugh:
This would be criminal in this era dominated by jumps and nothing but jumps....
 
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