Cohen Still Considering 2010 Games.......

[MKFSfan]

Michelle must have done something right with Tosca. She did win the LP at Nationals, and was 2nd in the LP at Worlds. All I really remember is watching Nats, Sasha went 1st and I really believe Swan Lake was Sasha's best LP. But her mistakes just deflated the whole program and I was left with this,"Oh. That's a shame." No real emotion one way or the other. But then Michelle went and blew the roof off. The choreo and elements she did have were crisp and clean, her peformance and passion was out of the world. I had to rewind and watch the last minute, from just before the 2nd 3lutz and the amazing FW, to the ending fist pumping pose, because the first time around, it was a blur.

Maybe Tosca was rather lacking compared to other programs, but it still had so much for me to like about it. That's what I think Michelle brought to FS more than anything else.

 

[Mathman]

I didn't find her 'Tosca' program special at all. Choreographically, it was very empty.

But then Michelle went and blew the roof off. The choreo and elements she did have were crisp and clean, her peformance and passion was out of the world.

That's the difference, right there. It wasn't the program that was great, it was the performance. :yes:

 

[Andalusia]

Kwan. :banging::disagree::scowl:

And yet, geisha, you post on her forum as if it's the most normal thing in the world.

Eww, eww, eww!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I didn't find her 'Tosca' program special at all. Choreographically, it was very empty.

And Sasha's Nutcracker and Roti's R&J were all so different? hmmm.

Joe

 

[goldenpleasures]

That's the difference, right there. It wasn't the program that was great, it was the performance. :yes:

Well, I didn't see her Nationals performance, so I'm just judging by Worlds. I didn't think it was anything special there, but it was the last year of 6.0 and the judges were handing out the sixes like Smarties.

 

[goldenpleasures]

And Sasha's Nutcracker and Roti's R&J were all so different? hmmm.

Joe

No, I'm not making out a case for Sasha being any more innovative than Michelle. Neither of them are among my favorite skaters.

 

[Wrlmy]

Well, I didn't see her Nationals performance, so I'm just judging by Worlds. I didn't think it was anything special there, but it was the last year of 6.0 and the judges were handing out the sixes like Smarties.

Then, who should've placed ahead of Kwan? Ando? BTW, her Nationals performance was much better.

 

[goldenpleasures]

Then, who should've placed ahead of Kwan? Ando? BTW, her Nationals performance was much better.

I'm not saying anything about placements; I'm simply reiterating that I didn't think her performance was anything special. And that will remain my opinion, however much I'm challenged over it.

 

[Mathman]

Well, I didn't see her Nationals performance, so I'm just judging by Worlds. I didn't think it was anything special there, but it was the last year of 6.0 and the judges were handing out the sixes like Smarties.

What made the U.S. Nationals performance so amazing was how Michelle was able to catalyze the latent emotion in the arena.

As MKFSfan describes it, this was the year that Michelle's run at the top of the U.S. podium was in jeopardy, Sasha was going to rise to the occasion, this would be a huge and historic "changing of the guard" competition. The grizzled, bemedaled champion, bloodied but unbowed, strapping on her armor one more time, defying time, fate, the skating gods themselves, to stand against the rising sun of the new challenger.

Then when Sasha, going first, faltered, that took the wind out of everyone's sails. Maybe this was going to be a dud of a competition after all, with the winner backing into the title only because of others' mistakes. Boo, what a downer.

And then...AND THEN...Michelle picked up the sport of figure skating in the U.S. and, as she had done for 8 years and more, put it on her shoulders and took it to the stratosphere.

Now, when you look at a you tube of the performance (especially with the noise of the crowd dialed down), well, you miss all that, and it just seems like another skate. But anyway, that's why Kwan fans cherish that performance so much. Sort of like how Hungarians feel about Julia Sebestyen's victory at Europeans, I guess.

 

[demarinis5]

I'm not saying anything about placements; I'm simply reiterating that I didn't think her performance was anything special. And that will remain my opinion, however much I'm challenged over it.

That is fine, your are entitled to your opinion and I am sure you are not alone. You either get Kwan or you don't. No big deal.

 

[Wrlmy]

I'm not saying anything about placements; I'm simply reiterating that I didn't think her performance was anything special. And that will remain my opinion, however much I'm challenged over it.

I thought you meant Kwan was unfairly held up, no biggie I have to agree her Tosca at worlds wasn't one of her special programs although I believe she deserved her bronze. As to other comments that Kwan's programs were all alike, aside from Aranjuez and Tosca, all other programs were different and original IMO.

 

[rtureck]

This is well stated. I think every skater impacts the sport at some level. Both Sasha and Michelle impacted the sport in ways that we may never know. Additionally, these two skates may have influenced or inspired some one else, i.e. Caroline Zhang, who has just or will be emerging on the scene and in return they may influence others and the sport even further.

Caroline Zhang for the record HAS NEVER mentioned Sasha Cohen as her role model. Zhang is naturally flexibile, and Lucindah Ruh is or has been her spin coach, therefore her spins should be credited to Lucindah. Caroline mentioned many times that Kwan is her role model. Actually, has any young skaters ever credited Cohen as their inspiration? Kimmie, Rachel, Caroline and Mirari all list Michelle Kwan.

with all due respect to miss Kwan, I have to say that her earlier stuff.. 1996-2001 was one the whole very good, but after that a lot of her programs looked alike. I also have to say that sasha used the same jump layout for the nutcraker, swan lake and romeo and juliet which made them look a little to much alike, but watch her face from rachminoff, malaguena, dark eyes and romeo and juliet. four completely diffrent looks, diffrent expressions emotions and of course she always has a new spiral sequence and WONDERFUL footwork.

Facial expression? We are still on the topic of skating and not Hollywood acting right?

I have to disagree with the so call new spiral sequence. Footwork, I have to credit Cohen's choreographers that gives some variation of her footwork. Unfortunately Cohen is basically a skater with average speed at best, and that extends to her footwork. She does not generate much speed to give her fw any excitement.

What and Sasha's 2006 olympic freeskate wasn't heartbreaking. For me one of the saddest outcomes in skating!

Cohen herself mentioned a few times that it was a "gift", so she was grateful for the gift.

IMO, Kwan earned her silver medal at Nagano, probably skated the best silver medal performance in olys history, same can not be said of Cohen's. IMO Fumie WUZ robbed.

 

[goldenpleasures]

As to other comments that Kwan's programs were all alike, aside from Aranjuez and Tosca, all other programs were different and original IMO.

I agree with that.

 

[attyfan]

Well, I didn't see her Nationals performance, so I'm just judging by Worlds. I didn't think it was anything special there, but it was the last year of 6.0 and the judges were handing out the sixes like Smarties.

There was also the problem under the 6.0 system of "leaving room for other skaters". Somehow (and I could never understand this), three or four judges placed Sasha Cohen (with bobbles) either over Shizuka's masterpiece or so close to Shizuka that there was no way to put Michelle second. So, they had to give Michelle the 6.0s to put her ahead of Sasha. Considering that the one mistake in Michelle's program (doubling a planned triple) was less disruptive to the program than Sasha's bobbles, a decision to place Michelle ahead of Sasha was quite reasonable -- and the use of the 6.0s was due to the inflating of other marks.

 

[Lonewolf]

Caroline Zhang for the record HAS NEVER mentioned Sasha Cohen as her role model. Zhang is naturally flexibile, and Lucindah Ruh is or has been her spin coach, therefore her spins should be credited to Lucindah. Caroline mentioned many times that Kwan is her role model. Actually, has any young skaters ever credited Cohen as their inspiration? Kimmie, Rachel, Caroline and Mirari all list Michelle Kwan.

Caroline’s inspiration is Michelle but that does not mean that Sasha has not influenced her or other skaters in someway, shape or form. Let’s not confuse the two words inspiration, which means that a person is moved or prompted to act, and influence, which means that a person is moved without any direct or apparent effort. Thus, Caroline’s inspiration is Michelle, but she is influenced by many other factors within the skating world, which may includes Sasha.

 

[Fossi]

Well, I think Caroline Zhang has spoken for herself, and never once has she mentioned Cohen. And neither have many other up and coming skaters.

 

[chuckm]

Well, I think Caroline Zhang has spoken for herself, and never once has she mentioned Cohen. And neither have many other up and coming skaters.

The main reason for that is that Sasha didn't win 5 World Championships, 9 US Championships and two Olympic medals. Michelle Kwan is a legend in the sport, while Sasha Cohen will be remembered for making pretty pictures on the ice, but not being quite able to make it to the top of the podium at big events.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

It is hard for Sasha fans, and those that liked her not as favorite but as a skater, that she never clinched what was expected of her. She let two 'old' competitors continue to pass her by in the race for gold, Kwan so often and Slutskaya in Worlds. She did,imo, skate quite wonderfully in 2006 Olys except for the two boo boos at the beginning. There was no doubt that she would win the 2006 Worlds in Calgary. Well,......

Joe

 

[rtureck]

Caroline’s inspiration is Michelle but that does not mean that Sasha has not influenced her or other skaters in someway, shape or form. Let’s not confuse the two words inspiration, which means that a person is moved or prompted to act, and influence, which means that a person is moved without any direct or apparent effort. Thus, Caroline’s inspiration is Michelle, but she is influenced by many other factors within the skating world, which may includes Sasha.

Fair enough. Her inspiration and role model is Michelle Kwan, and she is influenecd by many factors, may include the COP system, the other skaters in her rink, Nagasu (not sure if they still practice at the same rink), Johnny Weir, Evan, Nari Nam, Kimmie, Emily, S&Z, Zhang and Zhang/ Ping and Tong, Sarah, Kristi, Kat Witt, Roz, Tanith and Ben, Sasha....... OK, I see the picture now.

 

[Tinymavy15]

It is hard for Sasha fans, and those that liked her not as favorite but as a skater, that she never clinched what was expected of her. She let two 'old' competitors continue to pass her by in the race for gold, Kwan so often and Slutskaya in Worlds. She did,imo, skate quite wonderfully in 2006 Olys except for the two boo boos at the beginning. There was no doubt that she would win the 2006 Worlds in Calgary. Well,......

Joe

The 2006 Worlds in Calgary was the only time I ever really got mad with Sasha for blowing it again. She was national champion, she had skated beautifully, yet tragiclly in torino and with the big names not competing Sasha had it made. Insead she delivered a sub-par qualifying, the SP lacked the fire that she had in torino and i have never seen her skate a worse Freeskate. We all know where she ended up. I was so mad at her then.