Cohen Still Considering 2010 Games.......

[R.D.]

Note that she still had the lead after the "sub-par" SP. A repeat of the Torino skate may have been enough to win and I think she knew that.

I really don't think she should have gone to that worlds, quite frankly. I think she had enough of a season after the OLYs. Notice every other Oly medalist wasn't there. As well as the other things which I need not repeat, I don't think she wanted it enough- and that's why she didn't deliver. Actually, the only person who skated like she WANTED the title was Kimmie Meissner.

The World championships have the tendency to bring out the best in a certain skater. Notice that for the past 6 or 7 years SOMEONE has blown the roof off in the ladies' event. Who will it be this year?

 

[kappa_1]

Hmmm, I think this thread has quickly turned into a Sasha bash-fest. Is I had no idea about Sasha before reading this thread I would have thought she was some mediocre skater who had all the talent in the world but did absolutely nothing with it. IMO Sasha has been one of the most innovative skaters in my lifetime (i.e. the past twenty years) and even though she did not win world or Olympic titles she is still one of the best there is. While everyone was doing mediocre layback spins, she did hers with speed, good center and superb positions throughout. While everyone else was rushing through the spiral sequence, she really emphasized each one, maximizing her wonderful flexibility (that she still maintains today well after her baby ballerina phase). She would always fight back and had very few meltdowns in big competitions. She really made herself stand out among the crowd.

Her competitive record, while not legendary by any means, is still incredibly outstanding.

Also the question of influence vs. inspiration. So yes, all these skaters mentioned list Kwan as their inspiration, it is obvious that Sasha had a big influence on their style. Although CoP rewards these positions, I think Sasha and Irina really showed everyone how to milk the system very early on in the CoP's existence. Remember Irina's Biellmania? Everyone followed suit. Not many used to do the Hydrant spiral or the split catchfoot spin before, but everyone saw that Sasha was garnering big points by doing this and (unfortunately) everyone followed suit. Denying that Sasha didn't have any influence on these skaters is IMO quite ludicrous.

 

[Mathman]

Biellmania...the Hydrant spiral

Proving that not all "influences" are for the better.

 

[kappa_1]

Proving that not all "influences" are for the better.

Oh I totally agree. But, if more could hit gorgeous positions like Sasha did (that were all somewhat unique) there will be no complaints from me.

 

[rtureck]

Also the question of influence vs. inspiration. So yes, all these skaters mentioned list Kwan as their inspiration, it is obvious that Sasha had a big influence on their style.

It is not obviously too me that Sasha has an influence on their style. Nagsu's style is very different from Caroline's style. Mao's style is very different from YuNa's style, and none of the above has style similar to Cohen's.

Although CoP rewards these positions, I think Sasha and Irina really showed everyone how to milk the system very early on in the CoP's existence. Remember Irina's Biellmania? Everyone followed suit. Not many used to do the Hydrant spiral or the split catchfoot spin before, but everyone saw that Sasha was garnering big points by doing this and (unfortunately) everyone followed suit. Denying that Sasha didn't have any influence on these skaters is IMO quite ludicrous.

Among the young skaters, Caroline, Mirari, and Mao are naturally flexibile than others. Where is Cohen's influence on them? Last I check, Cohen does not do triple axels, 3f/3t, or 3z/3t You have to give more than the example of I spin. BTW they all do the COE spiral ala Michelle too. Who said that Irina and Sasha are the only ones who know how to milk COP system, IMO these young skaters are milking the system better than Irina and Sasha combine.

 

[Tinymavy15]

I think that Sasha went to worlds because she thought she could finally win, and she knew that she would not be skating next year... or perhaps ever again so she wanted one last shot at it. She was not prepared, she underestimated the competition and so she did not even earn her usual silver.

 

[rtureck]

I think that Sasha went to worlds because she thought she could finally win, and she knew that she would not be skating next year... or perhaps ever again so she wanted one last shot at it. She was not prepared, she underestimated the competition and so she did not even earn her usual silver.

She had as much time as Fumie or Kimmie to prepare. In Calgary, it looked like both Cohen and Johnny didn't want to be there. The way they skated reflected that too iMO

 

[Lonewolf]

She had as much time as Fumie or Kimmie to prepare. In Calgary, it looked like both Cohen and Johnny didn't want to be there. The way they skated reflected that too iMO

Sasha may have had as much time, but I don't think she used it well. She spent too much time on the talk show circuit and not in the skating rink.

 

[Dee4707]

Hmmm, I think this thread has quickly turned into a Sasha bash-fest.

There could be 300 threads and some just have to keep the bash going. I think there is something strange about that.

Dee

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

There could be 300 threads and some just have to keep the bash going. I think there is something strange about that.Dee

I think Dee, many posters recall the many threads about Kwan never winning the Olys, as what appears to be bashing. It's kind of like payback. Not necessarily good sportsmanship, but a silly verbal revenge thing. Fans of skating rather than of individuals are quite saddened about Sasha's various results because there was and still is, I believe, so much potential for her in figure skating.

The question is Is she really contemplating a comeback to competitive skating? My answer would be maybe. It's Sasha's decision and her's alone to decide. Not anyone else.

Joe

 

[kappa_1]

^^ ITA.

Stranger things have happened.

 

[Mathman]

There could be 300 threads and some just have to keep the bash going. I think there is something strange about that.

It is strange.

I can see why passionate fans of one skater or another might tee off on their favorite's rival. I love Lysacek, I hate Weir, or vice versa.

But -- not to call Michelle and Sasha dead horses -- you would think that folks would lose interest in beating them after a while.

 

[Medusa]

I hate Weir

I always suspected that...

What I just don't get is this - she hasn't won anything big and therefore disappointed everyone. First of all there is only a limited amount of really big titles you can win - once every year and once every four years - so winning is really really difficult, it's not like soccer where you have a match every week and if you screw up in one week you can redeem yourself the next two weeks.

Secondly - someone who managed to win 3 world medals and one olympic medal can't be a total loser. It is an amazing achievement and perhaps I am not interested enough in women's figure skating - but I never saw Cohen as someone who had the ability to rule them all and just didn't fulfil it. Her jumps were tiny and in my opinion rather mediocre, she was flexible but not so much more flexible than e.g. Arakawa (who had an amazing spiral herself + the Ina Bauer).

Michelle Kwan was superior because of her balanced talents and amazing consistency. That's why she won so much. Cohen wasn't even that inconsistent, yes she had a fall and stumble here and there - but the others weren't much better, I still can't believe that there were only 5-Triple-programs on the podium at the olympics. Cohen was equal to her main competitors (the "aged" Kwan, the "aged" Slutskaya, Arakawa, Suguri). She just missed out on an outstanding performance like Arakawa's (in 2004) at a grand competition. But that's also the reason why Cohen shouldn't try that comeback - because right now it looks very seven-triple-free-program on the podium.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

I always suspected that...

What I just don't get is this - she hasn't won anything big and therefore disappointed everyone. First of all there is only a limited amount of really big titles you can win - once every year and once every four years - so winning is really really difficult, it's not like soccer where you have a match every week and if you screw up in one week you can redeem yourself the next two weeks.

Secondly - someone who managed to win 3 world medals and one olympic medal can't be a total loser. It is an amazing achievement and perhaps I am not interested enough in women's figure skating - but I never saw Cohen as someone who had the ability to rule them all and just didn't fulfil it. Her jumps were tiny and in my opinion rather mediocre, she was flexible but not so much more flexible than e.g. Arakawa (who had an amazing spiral herself + the Ina Bauer).

Michelle Kwan was superior because of her balanced talents and amazing consistency. That's why she won so much. Cohen wasn't even that inconsistent, yes she had a fall and stumble here and there - but the others weren't much better, I still can't believe that there were only 5-Triple-programs on the podium at the olympics. Cohen was equal to her main competitors (the "aged" Kwan, the "aged" Slutskaya, Arakawa, Suguri). She just missed out on an outstanding performance like Arakawa's (in 2004) at a grand competition. But that's also the reason why Cohen shouldn't try that comeback - because right now it looks very seven-triple-free-program on the podium.

As always, Medusa proves to be smarter than the rest of us...awesome post and I couldn't agree more

I'd also like to throw another idea out there... I wonder if Sasha's indecision (if its even a true possibility...) has more to do with the eye of a vetern who has seen these jumping beans come and go due to injury, lack of long term interest, ect or how the 3axel & 3x3s have a way of leaving too soon... "who knows in two years," she might be thinking, "these little girls will understand just what it takes and how hard on your body it is and come to their senses... "

Look at Yu Na... last year we thought we should engrave her name on that olympic medal and now I wouldn't be surprised if she doesn't last that long... or Miki... one year she's in 16th place at the Olympics, next year she's world champ... who's to know? "Unbeatable" Mao has struggled this year and doesn't have a complete set of triples. Kimmie's not the lock we thought. TaDa seems to prefer Yale to skating... And let's not even bring up Irina (granted, Irina is a force of nature...) or DivaKwara...

You simply don't know how things are going to turn out and if she still feels there is more to prove - then who are the fans to decide its a pipe dream? Its easy to armchair quarterback - the only vote that counts is Sasha's...

 

[kappa_1]

TaDa seems to prefer Yale to skating...

Ahem...you mean the far more inferior Harvard

And Kwanford Wife, how dare you make me entertain thoughts about an Arakawa/Slutskaya/Cohen showdown in Vancouver that just raise my heart rate unnecessarily!

If only...

 

[chuckm]

If she does decide to go for it, one thing that will hurt her pretty badly is that she will be debuting her programs at Nationals. All the other Nationals competitors will have skated in the GP at least twice and will have had the benefit of judges' feedback.

Sasha theoretically COULD skate in the GP at least at SA, but the plain fact is that if she starts practicing in June, she cannot possibly be ready to skate two new programs in October. Sasha's never had to face the flutz rule or the rules on underrotations, and Nationals was (IMO) overly lenient on both, so she wouldn't even know what she'd be facing at Worlds (if she finished top two).

Sasha may take into consideration what happens at 2008 Worlds, which may factor heavily in her decision to compete. She may think of Kimmie as her main competition, discounting the young skaters who are ineligible for Worlds this year. However, she should keep in mind that Kimmie was ineligible in 2005, and then won Worlds at her first try, in 2006. Nagasu, Zhang and Flatt are no pushovers. Nagasu and Zhang have equal or better flexibility tricks than Sasha, and Flatt is completely capable of skating a clean 7-triple program.

 

[Kwanford Wife]

Ahem...you mean the far more inferior Harvard

And Kwanford Wife, how dare you make me entertain thoughts about an Arakawa/Slutskaya/Cohen showdown in Vancouver that just raise my heart rate unnecessarily!

If only...

Oh! My apologies... I would never mean to offend...
Hey - you snooty and by far superior ivies should ignore us little liberal arts grads... all we know for sure is that C students rule the world - I always assume its because we have less student loan debt!!!

Personally, I'm not a fan of the children on ice and would pay to see a true ladies competition at the Olympics... or at least less emphasis on the jumps and more on the skating... but that's just me!

 

[kappa_1]

Oh! My apologies... I would never mean to offend...
Hey - you snooty and by far superior ivies should ignore us little liberal arts grads... all we know for sure is that C students rule the world - I always assume its because we have less student loan debt!!!

Personally, I'm not a fan of the children on ice and would pay to see a true ladies competition at the Olympics... or at least less emphasis on the jumps and more on the skating... but that's just me!

I agree with that on every single count. Grades are stupid, having any college degree is impressive, and I'd rather see a woman win the next Olympics as opposed to a little girl. My pick would be Carolina Kostner or Sarah Meier who will be practically middle-aged by the time 2010 rolls around.

 

[Audrey19]

Personally, I'm not a fan of the children on ice and would pay to see a true ladies competition at the Olympics... or at least less emphasis on the jumps and more on the skating... but that's just me!

Very well said! I absolutely agree! It's much more exciting to watch a competition between mature ladies and not little girls. I don't like to watch girls at my age skating at worlds, real ladies, who already have some experience, mostly have a totally different way of skating, which I prefer by miles!

 

[R.D.]

oh man, I can have a field day with this one.

I'd also like to throw another idea out there... I wonder if Sasha's indecision (if its even a true possibility...) has more to do with the eye of a vetern who has seen these jumping beans come and go due to injury, lack of long term interest, ect or how the 3axel & 3x3s have a way of leaving too soon... "who knows in two years," she might be thinking, "these little girls will understand just what it takes and how hard on your body it is and come to their senses... "

First of all- she claims she hasn't watched any skating since she left. So how would she know, really? And if that's true she really could be in for more than she bargained for.

Secondly, if she couldn't get it done when 3-3's WEREN'T the standard...who's to say she would when they ARE the standard?

Look at Yu Na... last year we thought we should engrave her name on that olympic medal...

WE? how about YOU GUYS?

I NEVER jump on any bandwagon when I see a skater do really well in a competition or even have a good season (let alone just simply "look promising"), because you just never know what can happen. Injury, struggles, you name it.

"Unbeatable" Mao has struggled this year and doesn't have a complete set of triples.

Still wiping the floor clean, though.

Kimmie's not the lock we thought.

While it is unfortunate that she is going through these struggles, I can't say I considered her a lock. What I thought would happen but where I turned out to be wrong, though, was that she would show us what she was made of this year after missing the World podium last year. Now this year she didn't even make the National podium. And unlike Kwan or Cohen, she has nothing to fall back on if she has a rough night, so it takes her completely out of contention. Asada and Kim have been messing up all over the place but still wind up 20 points ahead of everyone else. That's not a fun competition.

TaDa seems to prefer Yale to skating...

and just WHO may that be??? the only skater I know who goes there is big Hughes.

You simply don't know how things are going to turn out and if she still feels there is more to prove - then who are the fans to decide its a pipe dream? Its easy to armchair quarterback - the only vote that counts is Sasha's...

now there's a statement I can buy.

With the addition, of course, that I don't think she has anything to add nor prove to competitive skating. She'll have a tough time even nationally (given that the kids have yet to grow up and experience pressure, though, who knows). But, it's her decision, (and I can't help but think it's a ploy for attention that obviously is working given the length of this thread) and like you said, we can sit here and pick it apart and tear it to shreds, but it means nothing until she actually does something.