- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
From the very beginnings of the CoP, I said the Caller (the name used in the early days) was all powerful. As usual, no one agreed.
Joe
Ladies LP
- Thread starter bibi
- Start date
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Feraina - As much as I love Caroline, after all I discovered her some years ago, to me she is still a little girl dressing up in mommie's clothing. She takes all the good points she can from Senior ladies and puts them into her style which in my opinion hasn't fully developed yet.
Rachael, on the other hand, when I first saw her it was like why bother? But she is growing into a first class skater and has gone beyond the 'little girl' stage. Now she must continue as a senior skater. Who ever took over for her pesentation did a magnificent job.
Jenni, is the most Senior-like skater of the bunch.
Joe
Rachael, on the other hand, when I first saw her it was like why bother? But she is growing into a first class skater and has gone beyond the 'little girl' stage. Now she must continue as a senior skater. Who ever took over for her pesentation did a magnificent job.
Jenni, is the most Senior-like skater of the bunch.
Joe
- Joined
- Jul 1, 2007
Still, what an amazing group of girls. This is some fierce competition.
Zhang took Junior Worlds last year.
Flatt takes it this year.
Nagasu took two National titles in a row.
And then you can't forget about Ashley Wagner either!
An amazing depth of talent.
Zhang took Junior Worlds last year.
Flatt takes it this year.
Nagasu took two National titles in a row.
And then you can't forget about Ashley Wagner either!
An amazing depth of talent.
I don't know why I'm being so dense today, but I only just somehow connected the dots in my mind just why Caroline's score (110) was lower than GPF (114), even though there she had a downgraded lutz and fell on it too. There's one fewer spin, of course! So that must've cost her 3-4 points. Plus her combination spin got called level 3. So all the points do add up.
By the way, Caroline lost to Mirai in the SP on TES not because of jumps, as common wisdom might have suggested, but rather because of spins and footwork sequence! Even though her 3F-3T had a lower base value than Mirai's 3Z-3T, because the latter was flutzed, Mirai ended up with 2 fewer GOE points. The 2A and 3R GOE's helped Mirai to gain some of it back, but she was still 1 point short on total jump points. But Caroline's getting called level 3 on the combination spin really hurt (it cost more than 1 point), as well as having a low GOE on the new forward flying sit spin which she's only been working on since National's. Also her footwork sequence was only level 2, to Mirai's level 3.
Even Rachael had a level 4 combination spin in the SP. The difference between hers and Caroline's level 3 (but with higher GOE) was just about .35 . Like I said, if Caroline had added half a revolution somewhere in one of her combination spins, she probably would've gotten level 4 and become the first repeat champion!
Oh, well, c'est la vie!
By the way, Caroline lost to Mirai in the SP on TES not because of jumps, as common wisdom might have suggested, but rather because of spins and footwork sequence! Even though her 3F-3T had a lower base value than Mirai's 3Z-3T, because the latter was flutzed, Mirai ended up with 2 fewer GOE points. The 2A and 3R GOE's helped Mirai to gain some of it back, but she was still 1 point short on total jump points. But Caroline's getting called level 3 on the combination spin really hurt (it cost more than 1 point), as well as having a low GOE on the new forward flying sit spin which she's only been working on since National's. Also her footwork sequence was only level 2, to Mirai's level 3.
Even Rachael had a level 4 combination spin in the SP. The difference between hers and Caroline's level 3 (but with higher GOE) was just about .35 . Like I said, if Caroline had added half a revolution somewhere in one of her combination spins, she probably would've gotten level 4 and become the first repeat champion!
Oh, well, c'est la vie!
I remember reading that she had an injured tailbone right before and during Europeans,so that must have affected her as well.
I'm so glad Jenni did so well here. Really, it was the best possible finish for her with the three strong American ladies. I agree, Joe, I think she's the most Senior like out of the bunch. She has maturity, grace and poise beyond her years. You should check out her skates from the Finlandia trophy on youtube, they're awesome! IMO, she deserved higher component scores for interpretation and performance and skating skills.
I wonder if she'll do the JGP again next year or move up to Seniors.
I am sure the technical specialists generally (must) do a good job. Everybody from the ISU can control them with the help of the super slow motion.
- Joined
- Mar 23, 2006
I think Rachael definitely deserved to win this. Yes she should have got deductions for those flutz combinations which were overlooked by the technical panel, but in ideal world judges shouldn't have rewarded such high GOEs to Caroline's stand-still double axels (+0.86, +0.43, +0.14) that barely make it off the ice and she wouldn't be receiving the highest PCS on Skating Skills of all things.
In the end, I think the judging was not perfect, but not that bad either.
In the end, I think the judging was not perfect, but not that bad either.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Statistically, the margins of error totally swamp the margin of victory in almost every competition. This means that the CoP is little better than flipping a coin.
IMO the heart of the problem is that figure skating is a judged sport, whereas the CoP assumes (falsely) that it is a measured one.
Joesitz said:
I gotta give you your props, Joe. At the beginning of the CoP, after Salt Lake, everyone was so hopeful. It took us a long time to realize that Emperor Cinquanta's New Scoring System was buck naked.
Same here. I watched the competition and I found Rachael at worlds as bland and forgettable as she was at nationals. She's completely solid though and I think she deserved the gold (possibly at nationals too).
Mule-kicks aside, Caroline does have the wow factor for me and she is currently my favorite ladies to watch perform. She draws me in. I think Mirai does have some of that wow factor in her too. Maybe not to the same degree as Caroline, but for me Mirai's all around package more than makes up for any small deficiencies she might have against Caroline. Just for the heck of it, Ashley Wagner scores some cool points for me as well.
Count me in as another person who loved Jenni's performance here at Worlds. She has a great style and carries herself beautifully.
Oh I adore Jenni. I think she's my favorite of all the girls here, although I know without more jumping consistency and a more difficult 3/3 she won't compete (sigh)
She's just so lovely across the ice. She made me cry in the short. She makes it look so effortless, and she just floats. There's nothing put upon about her performance.. And my mom who has some ballet experience, went just nuts when she watched her arms...
Jenni is lovely.. If they could just put her with a good jumping coach, she'd be unstoppable.
She's just so lovely across the ice. She made me cry in the short. She makes it look so effortless, and she just floats. There's nothing put upon about her performance.. And my mom who has some ballet experience, went just nuts when she watched her arms...
Jenni is lovely.. If they could just put her with a good jumping coach, she'd be unstoppable.
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2007
Unlike Lepisto, who also struggles with the more difficult jumps, Jenni is so young, she might still be able to get them all. I heard that they sent Lepisto to Mishin's summer camp once, maybe that would be good for Jenni. St.Petersburg is also right around the corner (if you are from Finland) - she might be able to work with Mishin on a more regular basis. I hope she improves - she is just so lovely to watch. All the Finnish ladies have amazing basic skating skills - but Jenni stands out.
- Joined
- Aug 3, 2007
- Joined
- Feb 17, 2007
I think that with either Rachael or Caroline winning, none of us could put up much of an arguement.
- Joined
- Jan 23, 2004
This has to be the best post I read today. So much nitpicking over these young ladies. They out-performed a slew of contenders to get on the podium and brought (speaking for myself here) much needed excitement to figure skating that the senior level has not done for me in awhile. After a long season of hard work I hope they all enjoy a nice break from the rigors of competition and come back stronger next season.
First I want to congratulate the three American girls, they did a great job and achieved another sweep! They are amazing. Only the lutz issue and some under- or pre-rotations, everything else is splendid. But they are still so young, they have time to develope and correct their little shortcomings!
I'm so happy that our Jenni repeated her brilliant 4th place again and that she got so much admiration and new friends in Sofia. She is such a lovely skater and a real natural talent. She already has all the triples and is going for the 3-3 combo, too. This season she had to leave her lutz (she has a true lutz!) from her SP and LP because of an injury, and she has been a little bit tentative, but I'm sure she will come back strong next year! She's so soft, balletic, and natural! I'm more than happy that we have so talented ladies figure skaters in Finland now, Susanna Pöykiö, Kiira Korpi, Laura Lepistö, and Jenni Vähämaa! What a competition next year, when we are going to have Europeans in Helsinki, four talented ladies and only 3 spots... Have to go to Nationals this year, too!
I'm so happy that our Jenni repeated her brilliant 4th place again and that she got so much admiration and new friends in Sofia. She is such a lovely skater and a real natural talent. She already has all the triples and is going for the 3-3 combo, too. This season she had to leave her lutz (she has a true lutz!) from her SP and LP because of an injury, and she has been a little bit tentative, but I'm sure she will come back strong next year! She's so soft, balletic, and natural! I'm more than happy that we have so talented ladies figure skaters in Finland now, Susanna Pöykiö, Kiira Korpi, Laura Lepistö, and Jenni Vähämaa! What a competition next year, when we are going to have Europeans in Helsinki, four talented ladies and only 3 spots... Have to go to Nationals this year, too!
I haven't seen the long program yet but I love all three US ladies so I'm looking forward.
I think Rachael understands music. I just feel the same way about her as I did when I first saw Kristi Yamaguchi skate as a jr and young senior. I don't think they skate the same exactly. I don't know why really but I I just feel connected the same way with both skaters.
Caroline is a little wow girl and I love watching her skate. Her ticks grab me and I watch with excitment. I see her and think she skates like Sasha and I can help but look forward to whats to come. To me it doesn't matter what medals she wins I'll watch her skate no matter what. I can't wait until she's a pro.
I think Mirai is the better skater of all three young ladies. She reminds me of a young Michelle with better dressing. I think that says it all. I hope she stays pretty much injury free.
Congrats to all the three for a fab year!
I think Rachael understands music. I just feel the same way about her as I did when I first saw Kristi Yamaguchi skate as a jr and young senior. I don't think they skate the same exactly. I don't know why really but I I just feel connected the same way with both skaters.
Caroline is a little wow girl and I love watching her skate. Her ticks grab me and I watch with excitment. I see her and think she skates like Sasha and I can help but look forward to whats to come. To me it doesn't matter what medals she wins I'll watch her skate no matter what. I can't wait until she's a pro.
I think Mirai is the better skater of all three young ladies. She reminds me of a young Michelle with better dressing. I think that says it all. I hope she stays pretty much injury free.
Congrats to all the three for a fab year!
Probably the media and USFSA would've preferred one superstar who can grab the public's attention, and help build the popularity of figure skating again in the US. But I think for the future of figure skating as a sport, and also for the individual athletes, how the season played out was wonderful.
With Caroline shining on the GP circuit, and being soooooooooo close to defending her JW title, Rachael improving all season and culminating in a JW gold medal, and Mirai skating the lights out at National's SP and being crowned the champion -- this puts all of them on pretty equal footing going into the next season. And let's not forget Ashley Wagner, who also received a lot of attention at National's as the highest placing age-eligible skaters, but then who got dinged for flutzing and under-rotation at 4cc. Let's hope she'll do well at Worlds!
The future of all three skaters are definitely bright. And with the spoils of this season shared among them, the hype and pressure into the next season will also be split. Nobody will have to endure what Caroline did, for instance, before National's, or all the hype surrounding Mirai after National's. That's my _hope_ anyway.
Hopefully the media will now stop putting all the spotlight on any one girl pre-maturely. It's very exciting when there are all these excellent young skaters, and you can never tell beforehand exactly how a competition will play out. I don't think U.S. figure skating ever had such breadth of young talents and unpredictable outcomes before.
With Caroline shining on the GP circuit, and being soooooooooo close to defending her JW title, Rachael improving all season and culminating in a JW gold medal, and Mirai skating the lights out at National's SP and being crowned the champion -- this puts all of them on pretty equal footing going into the next season. And let's not forget Ashley Wagner, who also received a lot of attention at National's as the highest placing age-eligible skaters, but then who got dinged for flutzing and under-rotation at 4cc. Let's hope she'll do well at Worlds!
The future of all three skaters are definitely bright. And with the spoils of this season shared among them, the hype and pressure into the next season will also be split. Nobody will have to endure what Caroline did, for instance, before National's, or all the hype surrounding Mirai after National's. That's my _hope_ anyway.
Hopefully the media will now stop putting all the spotlight on any one girl pre-maturely. It's very exciting when there are all these excellent young skaters, and you can never tell beforehand exactly how a competition will play out. I don't think U.S. figure skating ever had such breadth of young talents and unpredictable outcomes before.Jenni is almost 16 (May 26, 1992), a year or more older than Rachael, Caroline and Mirai. The three US girls had all or most of the difficult jumps by the time they were 13, and were doing 3/3s with the tough jumps at 14.
That's not to say Jenni can't get the jumps, but it's going to be hard to learn them and get them consistent while she is growing taller and filling out.
Jenni's landed all the jumps in competition - she just got injured halfway through the season and took the lutz out of her program. She's inconsistent but most young skaters are. She's clearly practicing triple-triples (I think I remember reading that she was practicing triple flip-triple toe, for example, and she attempted the 3toe-3toe here). I think she has a lot of potential.
The American girls are prodigies, but many skaters (like our reigning Olympic champion, for example) take longer to season and develop.
The American girls are prodigies, but many skaters (like our reigning Olympic champion, for example) take longer to season and develop.
