Johnny Weir, Last Year & This Year

[dorispulaski]

There has been a great deal of moaning about how many points Johnny left on the table. This when this is the first time Johnny has ever won a World medal.

Johnny has usually been a skater that excelled in the short program but lost focus in the long program. He has had years when he left out whole jumping passes as well as popping jumps.

In order to get a better perspective on Johnny's skating, last year and this, let's take a look at his free program scores:

Last year 10th in the free program:

3A3T
4t<
3Lz2T
2a
2Lo
1a
3f
3s

Steps, level 1 circular
level 2 straight line
F sit level 4 (twice)
Com spin level 3

total plan 55.56
total 132.71


This year 5th in the free skate
4t<
3A
3Lz
3A2T
3S
3Lo
3Lz2T
3F

Steps, Circ lev2, straight level 3
co spn 3 flyspin4, co spin4

67.20 planned
no falls

141.05

So on his jumps, last year Johnny popped two jumps, the loop and an axel. He had only one triple axel last year. He had only one lutz. The only thing he did better last year was tack a triple toe on his triple axel combination.

In steps, both his sequences were at a lower level than this year.

His spins were the same levels last year as this.

Both years, his quad was downgraded and two footed, but this year the commentators were feeling that it should not have been downgraded.

Also, last year edge calls were not made, and he did not get dinged for a lip as he did this year.

Johnny's base score went up from 55.56 to 67.20, and should have been 4 points higher without the quad downgrade.

Johnny has made a huge improvement in his ability to put out a long program at Worlds this year! Yes, he still needs to complete 3 combinations and get at least one quad rotated, but this year was a huge advance for him in every way.

Congratulations Johnny! And congratulations to his coaches Viktor & Gallina who did a wonderful job with him.

 

[GoldMedalist]

I'd still recommend this jump lay-out for Johnny:

4Toe
3Axel-3Toe
3Flip
3Axel
---------
3Lutz-3Toe
3Loop
2Axel-2Toe-2Loop
3Sal

He needs to start doing all of his combinations. Can't leave those out.

 

[Skye]

With a quad, Johnny doesn't have to include the 2A anymore in his programs. He can repeat the 3A and the 3Lz like he did at Worlds. What I would like to recommend is 1) to do the combinations earlier on and not wait until the very last jumping pass when your legs are tired and 2) to not frontload the jumps (he had 5 jumping passes in the first half compared to other men who have only 3 or 4) and 3) please add some transitions, because even though his stroking is beautiful I don't want to see him stroke, stroke, jump, stroke, stroke, jump.

 

[dorispulaski]

Of course Johnny should do his combinations next year. I just wanted to make the point of how far he had come this year.

Not only did he overcome some of his demons and get some more discipline, there were actual technical improvements, too.

And yes, if he's going to do the quad, he shouldn't be wasting the time with the 2A. A lutz combination and 2nd lutz is a better choice for him.

I'm sure that his program was frontloaded precisely because of his stamina/loss of focus in the second half of his programs in the past. That is indeed another area he needs to work on..

 

[Mathman]

In hs interview with Peter Carruthers, Johnny said that he felt like he was being super-cautious in his LP. His focus was on completing each element. I thought he was skating to hold on to his podium spot, rather than trying to go all out for the win.

Maybe if he develops a true confidence in his jumps he can go back to wowing us with his performances, like he did when he first burst onto the scene.

 

[sillylionlove]

In hs interview with Peter Carruthers, Johnny said that he felt like he was being super-cautious in his LP. His focus was on completing each element. I thought he was skating to hold on to his podium spot, rather than trying to go all out for the win.

Maybe if he develops a true confidence in his jumps he can go back to wowing us with his performances, like he did when he first burst onto the scene.

He actually compared himself to Michelle Kwan in the 1998 Olympics when everyone said that she was skating cautious!! Regardless...he was really great and deserved the medal. I think next year he will be even better!!

 

[Medusa]

In hs interview with Peter Carruthers, Johnny said that he felt like he was being super-cautious in his LP. His focus was on completing each element. I thought he was skating to hold on to his podium spot, rather than trying to go all out for the win.

I had the feeling that after he had a bit of a tight landing (I actually thought that is was underrotated) on his first Triple Axel and then only tacked on the double Toe to his second Triple Axel - that he was thinking constantly about where to tack on that Triple Toe, and therefore had strange and not really Johnny-like landings on the rest of his jumps.

This long program is certainly very empty and somehow flat compared to his other programs, he brought it to life once - at Nationals - but that's about it.

I think he will have new programs next season, that hopefully suit him better and emphasise his qualities + challenge his artistry. He talked about ideas for next season in the icenetwork-telephone-conference and it certainly sounded very interesting. And please, please - make him stop using some pop-classical-electro music, that may have not been used by every second skater in the last decade - but still isn't very interesting.

 

[dorispulaski]

I've got to agree that for an artistic guy, Johnny uses a lot of music that I'd rather not listen do.

 

[chuckm]

I'd like to see Johnny start off with a quad-triple-double or even a quad-double-double, and get that 3-jump sucker done right off the bat. Then he would have to worry about only 2 combos downstream.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I was a big Johnny fan long before anyone knew him, and he reached his pinnacle a few years later with 'Otonal'. However he started going down hill after that incredible skate, imo. I agree with others that he needs the jumps for the points because his style has changed so much from Otonal. He is a perfect example for bringing back the Free Skate and dump those points.

Joe

 

[dorispulaski]

I'd like to see Johnny start off with a quad-triple-double or even a quad-double-double, and get that 3-jump sucker done right off the bat. Then he would have to worry about only 2 combos downstream.

I suspect that's what Johnny plans in that slot. He just hasn't ever landed the quad cleanly enough in competition to add the extra jumps to it.

 

[Bennett]

3) please add some transitions, because even though his stroking is beautiful I don't want to see him stroke, stroke, jump, stroke, stroke, jump.

I agree about the transitions. I think his program extremely pleasant to watch. But compared to Takahashi's, a bit sparse in transitions. Perhaps more stamina needed?

I was a bit surprised to see Takahashi and Jonny so close because Johnny looked so much cleaner. But yeah, he didn't do enough jumping passes. So it's a little bit like Takahshi's zayak violation. I was also surprised that his 4t was downgraded (I am also a bit surprised to hear that he had a quad last season, which I wasn't really aware of. But that's another story). But because Johnny was so much cleaner, I am glad that Johnny medaled here instead of Takahashi. I wish him great next season!

 

[antmanb]

I agree about the transitions. I think his program extremely pleasant to watch. But compared to Takahashi's, a bit sparse in transitions. Perhaps more stamina needed?

I was a bit surprised to see Takahashi and Jonny so close because Johnny looked so much cleaner. But yeah, he didn't do enough jumping passes. So it's a little bit like Takahshi's zayak violation. I was also surprised that his 4t was downgraded (I am also a bit surprised to hear that he had a quad last season, which I wasn't really aware of. But that's another story). But because Johnny was so much cleaner, I am glad that Johnny medaled here instead of Takahashi. I wish him great next season!

Johnny didn't miss a jumping pass he just missed a combination. The way johnny was skating he wasn't going to manage to put the 3T in there so the most he gave up was a 2T/2T on the back of one of the other jumps.

I think going back and speculating about what should have happened is a pretty fruitless exercise with COP - you do what you do in the moment, you focus on the program. Under 6.0 you used to be able to throw in extra things, under COP you simpy can't have the concetration to work what you can and can't do or how you can or can't change the program and still perform - ask Daice!

Like Doris said - Johnny's completed more elements this season than he did last. I'm sure his plan is to get even more in for next year and follow that on to the Olympic year.

Ant

 

[jennylovskt]

Athletically, he is stronger this year. Artistically, he goes down this year than last year.

 

[antmanb]

Athletically, he is stronger this year. Artistically, he goes down this year than last year.

I agree I think choreographically his programs were a lot emptier than normal. But, wildly, speculating perhaps this season's tactic is land those pesky jumps and do the elements. Next season, add to the elements with more of his traditional beautiful skating with transitions. See what needs fine tuning from that season to put together a strong Olympic season pair of programmes to wind up on the olympics podium preferrably at the top.

I think it would be a good strategy and since we know he can do the inbetweens, working on the elements is a good strategy.

Ant

 

[dorispulaski]

I hope Johnny hits the ground flying and lands a quad combination in the Grand Prix. If he can get a secure program start with the combination, he should be able to put more transitions in the rest of the program (and I hope he does).

He went down hill by not making the transition to COP very well and he is finally coping with it.

He still is not all that old, and he didn't start skating until he was 12 or so, wasn't it.

 

[Eevun]

Right. I think he's amazing for "just" been skating half his life, compared to most of the other skaters. A true prodigy. I really look forward to watch him next season, he totally captured my heart this Worlds <3

 

[Bennett]

Johnny didn't miss a jumping pass he just missed a combination. The way johnny was skating he wasn't going to manage to put the 3T in there so the most he gave up was a 2T/2T on the back of one of the other jumps.

Yes, that was what I mean by missing a jumping pass; failing to max out what was allowed to do. Thank you for correcting the wording!

 

[Bennett]

Athletically, he is stronger this year. Artistically, he goes down this year than last year.

Yeah, I agree about the limited transitions. Somehow, I like this year's programs so much better than the last year's primarily because the types of the music and the messages in them just hit his personality so well. I also liked his costumes. There were something really soulful about this year's programs. I heartily enjoyed them. I was especially moved when I saw his LP performance at CoR.

 

[Medusa]

Hmm, I found this in Libération, a French respectable left-wing newspaper. It disturbs me a bit that someone could see Johnny's change like this:

L’entraîneur national (et commentateur pour la chaîne Eurosport) Philippe Pélissier rendait compte samedi d’un désastre : pourtant troisièmede la compétition, Johnny Weir s’est perdu. La préciosité quasi féminine du patineur de Coatesville (Pennsylvanie) s’est envolée, écrasée par la nécessité (?) de viriliser sa glisse pour accéder aux podiums internationaux. Pélissier : «Weir a bétonné son patinage.» Samedi, l’Américain fut propre jusqu’à la transparence, lisse jusqu’à l’insignifiance. Sans âme. Peut-être qu’une médaille de bronze méritait de la vendre.

I know that Johnny's style changed a bit, but.. Oh right, translation.

National Coach (and commentator for the channel Eurosport) Phillipe Pélissier reported a disaster on saturday: despite the fact that he came in third at the competition, Johnny Weir lost himself / got lost. The nearly feminine precious skater is gone, destroyed by the necessity (?) to butch up his skating in order to achieve international podium placements. Pélissier: "Weir petrified his skating". On Saturday, the American was clean close to transparent, flat close to insignificant. Without soul. Perhaps a bronze medal is worth selling your soul.

And Joe, I know that you agree with the guy. What does everybody else think? Of course Joe can still say what he thinks...

He definitely changed his style a bit, though I have to say that I enjoy the short program just not so much the long. But that's also because of the music. I don't know. I think the nice Frenchman is exaggerating.