Six of the 10 Top Ladies in the Worlds at Skate Amercia

[Joesitz (RIP)]

They didn't say if it was European or American, it could have been both. And what they said is basically they think having an American or a European star would make the sport grow in America/Europe. I'm not sure "if that's racial prejudice" because sadly how many foreign athletes are really popular in the USA?

Until I understand who they are, it is just difficult to believe.

Of course there are fans who jump to conclusions, but we know that, yet what you are saying is that there is a certain group of predjudiced officials who are out to put Mao, Daisuke and YuNa down. So if it is only a rumor that you read somewhere, and can't remember where then it is yet another blow to Figure Skating as a Sport.

Do you believe this is going on? or is it just hearsay?

 

[fumie_fumie]

Bear in mind that there were two judges from Asia and no judge from North America in ladies' competitions. So, I have to question the validity of this theory that Europeans and North Americans wanted a skater of European origin to win.

 

[Mathman]

I'm actually really worried for Yu-na... In the sense that after at last year's worlds that the judges in someways dumped her by putting Kostner ahead of her.. Yu-na does not come from a powerful federation and now with the American girls coming up, and the Japanese girls, the Japanese federation has a lot of power, and Mao with Tarasova is certainly helpful for Mao politically... I'm just really worried that the judges are going to start screwing Yu-na..

Maybe I'm wrong. maybe they will realize that it's great to have Koreans into the sport and stuff. But I don't know.

Well, IMHO, money talks in the power corridors of the ISU as everywhere else. If Korea continues to fill the house for skating competitions and shows, they will get more and more plums like this year's junior and senior Grand Prix Finals.

The USA used to be a powerful voice in the ISU, back in the days when a lot of the ISU's budget was underwritten by U.S. television contracts. Now already it seems a little harder for the US to get its way in the decision-making process.

Times change. Great Britain, Norway and Austria were once major players in the ISU. Now, not so much.

And what's interesting to is pretty Asian girls are immensely popular in America... I think that if they actually tried to market Yu-na and Mao, they might be pleasantly surprised at the reception they got. I know someone who is the most casual fan of figure skating, didn't even know the people's names but happened to watch the World Championships. And just loved Yu-na said she reminded her of Kwan... And was petty mad about Kostner over taking her.

In particular, Canada should be all over Yu-na, promoting her as "our girl." Hey, doesn't she train in Toronto? Isn't Canadian icon Brian Orser her coach? They should make her an offer she can't refuse to headline SOI Canada.

I remember a tape where no one at COI (Japanese documentary) knew who Arakawa was, but afterwards one person was like she's the best I ever saw... So I really don't by the whole Americans won't take to Asian figure skaters (or Europeans) the issue the ISU doesn't want to do its job and market its stars.

When Arakawa skated with COI, she knocked the audiences out of their seats. This was the original concept of these tours -- to take the most recent Olympic and Worlds stars and showcase them to a public that just couldn't get enough of them.

I don't think it was anyone's fault, however, that the tour could not keep its mojo. I think it fell prey to societal and market changes far beyond the power of the ISU or USFS to overcome.

When Shizuka was training briefly in the Detroit area with Richard Callaghan, Detroit area fans really took a shine to her as "our girl." They were even cheering for her to top Michelle Kwan in the local Marshall cheesefest that year (and she would have, but for doubling her last jump, which gave the judges the breathing room to go with Michelle. )

Bear in mind that there were two judges from Asia and no judge from North America in ladies' competitions. So, I have to question the validity of this theory that Europeans and North Americans wanted a skater of European origin to win.

I think the theory was that they didn't want an all-Asian podium, so they held up Kostner as much as possible vis-a-vis Nakano.

Nakano was the "people's choice" after her rousing LP performance. But the CoP said otherwise, generating more grumbilgs againt the scoring system.

 

[bekalc]

When Shizuka was training briefly in the Detroit area with Richard Callaghan, Detroit area fans really took a shine to her as "our girl." They were even cheering for her to top Michelle Kwan in the local Marshall cheesefest that year (and she would have, but for doubling her last jump, which gave the judges the breathing room to go with Michelle.

I always think that Richard didn't get enough credit for Shizuka's success... I mean her jumps improved tremendously under him, and I think she would have won with him, even if she hadn't moved to Tarasova. In contrast, a year after being with Tarasova and Shiz's jumps were downhill...

I remember reading that Richard was so ticked of that Arakawa was taking away like that, that he said he'd never work with the Japanese federation again.

 

[Mathman]

I remember reading that Richard was so ticked of that Arakawa was taking away like that, that he said he'd never work with the Japanese federation again.

I'm not sure about "never," but when the Japanese Federation snatched Shizuka away so abruptly that she didn't even get a chance to say goodby to Callaghan, they (the JSF) offered him Yoshie Onda as a consolation prize. He declined.

 

[Wrlmy]

I'm not sure about "never," but when the Japanese Federation snatched Shizuka away so abruptly that she didn't even get a chance to say goodby to Callaghan, they (the JSF) offered him Yoshie Onda as a consolation prize. He declined.

I still wonder how much say Shizuka had in the matter since she was already an adult fully capable of decision making.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

and looking at that youtube of Mao with TT's Tango. Gorgeous, but those jumps are pure Arutunian. TT is a choreogapher - not a tech coach from what I understand.

 

[bekalc]

and looking at that youtube of Mao with TT's Tango. Gorgeous, but those jumps are pure Arutunian. TT is a choreogapher - not a tech coach from what I understand.

Or whatever Japanese jumping coach she's working with... That's the thing with me is that I feel kind of bad for the coach who will be working with Mao day in and day out and won't get credit.

 

[KayMil01]

Whatever happened to Yoshie Onda? did she retire? last I remember seeing if her was in 2005.

 

[fumie_fumie]

Yoshie retired in 2007. Her last competition was 4CC in 2007. She was quite emotional after her FP and got a big hug from her coach, Josee Chouinard.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Until I understand who they are, it is just difficult to believe.

It was one of the hot topics in Sweden this year, for a number of serious fans whom I respect and whom I know have inside connections.

Kostner looked much worse on TV than live. Kim, whom I adore, looked smoothed out on TV, but not live, at least to me. .

 

[bekalc]

It was one of the hot topics in Sweden this year, for a number of serious fans whom I respect and whom I know have inside connections.

Kostner looked much worse on TV than live. Kim, whom I adore, looked smoothed out on TV, but not live, at least to me. .

Yeah that is part of it Yu-na did not look like her normal self... But I did hear the crowd booed when Yu-na was placed behind Kostner.

 

[hockeyfan228]

Nakano was the "people's choice" after her rousing LP performance. But the CoP said otherwise, generating more grumbilgs againt the scoring system.

Ah, those pesky underrotations...

 

[antmanb]

someone on FSU on their secret sources said that they talked to several figure skating officials. And they said that while it's great skating is growing popular in Japan and stuff. What the sport really needs is a Pretty European American girl to attract Western audiences.

Well then it must be true

Ant

 

[vlaurend]

Yeah that is part of it Yu-na did not look like her normal self... But I did hear the crowd booed when Yu-na was placed behind Kostner.

I'm guessing that's because Carolina's particular type of mistake (2-footing/stumbling on jump landings) was the type of error that is very visible to the audience, but not actually a huge point deduction. The audience could not understand the placements because they only knew what their eyes saw, not what the base values were and whether or not the rotations were fully completed. Contrast that against the less visible but more costly mistakes made by some of the other skaters, most notably Yukari Nakano and her underrotated triple axel.
I am not a big Kostner fan and I really wanted both YuNa and Yukari to medal, but I looked at the scoresheets and had to agree with the calls that were made, at least on the technical scores. And as Hockeyfan pointed out, the PCS scores are based on how the skater looks live, and sometimes it's hard to see how much flow and ice coverage someone has when you're just seeing it on TV.

 

[Ptichka]

I don't think it was anyone's fault, however, that the tour could not keep its mojo. I think it fell prey to societal and market changes far beyond the power of the ISU or USFS to overcome.

I only partially agree with this. I think marketing of both SOI and COI went down two tracks - market heavily to hardcore fans who read skating magazines and such, and market lightly to all other non-fans. This approach missed a huge gray area of the casual fans - those who know major skaters, have some idea about what to look at, but couldn't care less who the coach of the latest Cup of China silver medalist is. Many of my friends fall into the latter category; they will sometimes attend a skating show, but more often than not they find out about those shows from yours truly. Lack of outreach to this market segment has especially hurt COI since SOI is generally more attractive to the non-fan. Having said all that, I truly have no idea how one would go about advertising to the casual fans who do not regularly access skating sites, magazines, etc.

 

[bekalc]

I'm guessing that's because Carolina's particular type of mistake (2-footing/stumbling on jump landings) was the type of error that is very visible to the audience, but not actually a huge point deduction. The audience could not understand the placements because they only knew what their eyes saw, not what the base values were and whether or not the rotations were fully completed. Contrast that against the less visible but more costly mistakes made by some of the other skaters, most notably Yukari Nakano and her underrotated triple axel.
I am not a big Kostner fan and I really wanted both YuNa and Yukari to medal, but I looked at the scoresheets and had to agree with the calls that were made, at least on the technical scores. And as Hockeyfan pointed out, the PCS scores are based on how the skater looks live, and sometimes it's hard to see how much flow and ice coverage someone has when you're just seeing it on TV.

i realize that but I still think that Kostner should have gotten docked majorily for Performance/Execution because she had what two clean jumping passes. Carolina always deserves High Skating skills marks.. And that goes into flow. But her performance was not a good one, because stumbling on almost all of your jumping passes makes it look messy and yes effects the quality of your performance. She may have appeared "better" live but the fact is the crowd booed her placement. That suggests she wasn't that much better live.

I'm not saying Yu-na deserved her normal Pcs, she didn't. I realize that from what I've heard. But I don't get why Kostner got the P/E marks she got.

And the thing is take Joannie Rochette. I believe her and Kostner had similar TES marks, where Kostner got her was in PCS. And I disagree with that.

I'm tired of people getting high marks for multiple mistakes. One fall like Mao had doesn't necessarily affect the quality of the performance a bit but doesn't all the way, but stumbling on almost every jumping pass does.

 

[fairskating01]

There were reports that many Europeans wanted a European/American to be on top at last years worlds they think the Asian "invasion" is bad for the sport. I just don't want the judges to dump her.

i think the whole "asian invasion" idea is wrong, because there's nothing but the fact that there aren't european skaters that are good enough to beat the asian girls. I think Yu-na Kim's skating is far more beautiful than the europeans. She has clean jumps, expressions, and artistry. Her skating is just great to watch. If "asian girls" with skills weren't in the competitions, figure skating wouldn't be so interesting. Maybe in the future there will be european girls with talent, good enough to beat skaters from different ethnicity.

 

[bekalc]

i think the whole "asian invasion" idea is wrong, because there's nothing but the fact that there aren't european skaters that are good enough to beat the asian girls. I think Yu-na Kim's skating is far more beautiful than the europeans. She has clean jumps, expressions, and artistry. Her skating is just great to watch. If "asian girls" with skills weren't in the competitions, figure skating wouldn't be so interesting. Maybe in the future there will be european girls with talent, good enough to beat skaters from different ethnicity.

I totally agree with this. I think the booing of the European crowd should have given the judges and the ISU a very good understanding of what the fans think and want.

 

[Mathman]

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