Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[skatedreamer]

I hadn't seen that post but it sure is nice to read. I am really worried about Kamila and her state of mind right now. I'd love to say that things will be ok but, I don't see that happening once she gets to an international event. There's a reason that this is still all over the headlines here in the US as some believe the Team Gold should be given to the US and the other teams moved a spot.

Where are you reading that some in the US think the US should get the team gold? The US asked for a medal ceremony but that’s for the silver and bronze medals.

 

[mrrice]

Where are you reading that some in the US think the US should get the team gold? The US asked for a medal ceremony but that’s for the silver and bronze medals.

I'm not going to chase down the article right now but, I certainly feel that way and it's been in the press for a couple of days. I'll post later. As I said before, this is just one of several articles on my news feed. When Alexa says "There should a medal ceremony for the "Clean Athletes" I'm fairly sure I know who she's talking about. https://kfor.com/2022-olympics/lows-far-outweigh-highs-in-olympic-figure-skating/

 

[gsk8]

So it seems Russia will send Kamila to Worlds

Source please?

 

[withwings]

of course for silver and bronze.
normally gold needed to be taken away immediately from Russia, ROI Team needed to be discredited immediately. but US seems to be humble and stands not for the color of medals but for the integrity of the sport. wish them to succeed. if they do- it will be much much more than any gold medal.

 

[skatedreamer]

I'm not going to chase down the article right now but, I certainly feel that way and it's been in the press for a couple of days. I'll post later. As I said before, this is just one of several articles on my news feed. When Alexa says "There should a medal ceremony for the "Clean Athletes" I'm fairly sure I know who she's talking about. https://kfor.com/2022-olympics/lows-far-outweigh-highs-in-olympic-figure-skating/

A medal ceremony, yes. But she’s not saying anything about the team OGM. It’s important to not read too much into this or any other statement.

 

[Justlooking]

So this is a fake twitter account?
https://twitter.com/i/status/1494304905686835202

Sorry I did a mistake and mybrain misremembered The fake news part is "promising Russian Army will defend innocent Russian ice skaters from evil dark forces." It just says "The pupils of the Stavropol PKU joined the flash mob #KamilaMySToboy in support of the Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva."

 

[[email protected]]

If there's a possibility that this is true, I wish her coach would say so instead of blaming Kamila. Put the WADA in the headlines and leave this young girl alone.

I respect you usual balanced and level-headed position. Here I can't agree with you. If there was no systemic doping in Kamila's case there are 3 options: contamination, lab's mistake, and sabotage. Sabotage might come not necessarily from WADA's side - it could happen in Russia - it was a microdose found - theoretically someone could put a crumb in water. But both WADA's and local sabotage is virtually impossible to prove. That's why one can easily imagine what would happen if Eteri and Russian officials started to post such headlines - nothing good for Kamila, TT, and Russian figure skating would happen.

Lab's mistake if there was no sabotage can be proven by opening Sample B. Russia requested to open sample B - that's in CAS report.

Finally, what is left is contamination. Imagine you had this blow on your head - an unexpected blow of tremendous power. You are not prepared for it. Your brain start to work how it could happen? And alas, you have no idea beside the fact that the grandpa uses this drug. For me it's another reason to believe that there was nothing there. They were not prepared. If you dope a star athlete who is 99% guaranteed to win, and dope her with a long-lasting drug with high chances to be caught, yes, you would prepare a better explanation just in case. They were not prepared, they could find no other contamination explanation but grandpa, and sabotage or lab's mistake (which might be the true reasons) are off limits to them.

 

[mrrice]

A medal ceremony, yes. But she’s not saying anything about the team OGM.

I believe the "Implication" when she says clean athletes means she doesn't think Russia should be getting the team gold. It's over now so, I'm going to move on.

 

[gsk8]

This thread will be closed until further news comes to light.

Press from everywhere is just regurgitating the same thing and spinning it as much as they can. When official news comes out, we will re-open.

 

[Skating91]

The Russian championships will be held the final weekend of 2025 anyway so she will be able to skate in it.

She would effectively be missing out on Spartakiad (I don't think she was skating in that she had given up for the season imo), all of 2024, then some GP stages late 2025.

Spartakiad 2024, two GP stages 2024 next season, Russian championship December 2024, GP final 2025, then two GP stages 2025. 7 events, plus demonstration events, Channel 1 Cup, jumping tournament (I doubt any senior female apart from Adelia would bother competing in future).

Anyway she was already banned from international events.

She makes enough money to buy her own coaches, trainers, and ice time.

Honestly, I thought she was finished anyway looking at her the passion had left her and she was going through the motions especially with the free skate. It's like she hated it and didn't even try with the choreography. Then the shows in St Petersburg from last night she fully commits to them and there's some emotion to the skating, and that's all just improvised stuff for the most part.

It's real glass half full stuff, but the time off, she won't be able to train at Team Tutberitze buy a new coach, buy a choreographer, make a lot of money doing shows, and she might return to competition at the end of next year reinvigorated maybe doing a performance along the lines like a Frolova. I think she can retain the 4T.

There's got to be more to this to give a 4 year suspension to a minor athlete when I have read some of the excuses from adult athletes (recently), and protected athletes who have been caught with multiple positive samples have been allowed to keep their results and escape sanction with flimsy excuses. The tennis player Yastremskaya who just made the semi final at the Australian Opan had a real unbelievable excuse and had it overturned without a whimper from WADA (Google it you will have a good laugh at the documents).

What if it was planted. How do you go about proving it if there's no evidence?

 

[TontoK]

And now the (probably) long drawn-out drama of how the final podium shakes out.

 

[figureskatingandrainbows]

Following the CAS decision on the Kamila Valieva case all results from the date of the doping (Dec. 25, 2021) have since been disqualified. *Note that this decision could be appealed within the next 30 days of the decision, and so is not 100% set in stone.* The disqualifications apply to the 2022 European Championships and, of course, the 2022 Olympic Team Event and Women's Event. CAS did not make a ruling on the medals, saying "The consequences linked to the retroactive disqualification of Ms Valieva from past events, including from the Olympic Winter Games Beijing 2022, were not within the scope of this arbitration procedure and will have to be examined by the sports organisations concerned.”

I am assuming this to mean the ISU and the IOC will determine medals. I've seen some confusion over whether all of ROC will be DQ and how the tallies will be done. The ISU has a set procedure for disqualification of athletes, saying "Disqualified Competitors will lose their placements and be officially noted in the intermediate and final results as disqualified (DSQ). Competitors having finished the competition and who initially placed lower than the disqualified Competitor(s) will move up accordingly in their placement(s)." (ISU Special Rules & Technical Regulations 2022).

Assuming the ISU follows their set procedures, only Valieva would be DQ and the podiums for the affected events will change as follows:
EC 2022
Gold: Anna Shcherbakova (RUS)
Silver: Alexandra Trusova (RUS)
Bronze: Loena Hendrickx (BEL)
(all other women move up one place. Anete Lace (LAT) would have qualified for the FS)
OLY Team 2022
SP: All women move up one place. Wakaba Higuchi (JPN) is first, Madeline Schizas (CAN) second, and Anastasiia Gubanova (GEO) is third. Scores after all SPs would be as follows:
USA: 35
JPN: 30
ROC: 26
CAN: 25
CHN: 23
GEO: 23
ITA: 21
CZE: 16
DEU: 9
UKR: 9

FS: All women move up one place. Kaori Sakamoto (JPN) is first, Madeline Schizas (CAN) is second, and Karen Chen (USA) is third. Scores for all FS would be as follows:

USA: 32
JPN: 35
CAN: 30
ROC: 28
CHN: 29

This would bring the tally and podium to
Gold USA: 67
Silver JPN: 65
Bronze CAN: 55
4th ROC: 54
5th CHN: 52
6th GEO: 23
7th ITA: 21
8th CZE: 16
9th GER: 9
10th UKR: 9

For the individual event, the podium would remain the same. Wakaba Higuchi and all skaters after move up one place. 25 skaters were let into the FS for this exact scenario.

Of course, this is all pending appeal and decision by the ISU and IOC. They could decide to do something else, but since it is quite explicitly stated in the rulebook, the above are the most likely scenarios in my eyes. It is worth noting that in 2000, the entire Chinese women's gymnastics team was DQ due to a gymnast being underage, but in this instance, I suppose it could be argued that the organizing federation knew, whereas with the Valieva situation the federation did not know because the sample had not been processed yet. If that is the case, then we have to assume that all placements would move up based on the DQ of ROC athletes, which makes the math very strange. I think the placements will stay the same, because the difference in ID placements is made up for by the men's FS placements.

 

[Ivana]

So we have banned the teenager for 4 years (as expected) and all the adults around her walked away without any consequences. We have learned nothing...

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Well, finally a decision has been reached in this long-running doping scandal. I look forward to the egregiously impacted athletes finally being awarded their deserved Olympic team medals! Sadly, they have all still lost the ability to experience receiving their medals in the flush of excitement at the Olympic venue where they competed. Nothing will replace the loss of that elusive experience and culmination of emotions from years of hard work. Kudos to all the athletes who have responded with grace and determination to the lengthy disappointment.

Long-term, who knows whether or not certain individual adults and federations learn anything.

 

[Skating91]

And now the (probably) long drawn-out drama of how the final podium shakes out.

It's quite simple ROC is stripped of gold, although it is quite unfair because if the result had been returned 28 hours earlier then Kamila would have been replaced and ROC would have just as easily won gold.

Just another strange, bizarre set of circumstances in this case. What are the odds?

 

[readernick]

Correct ruling. Letting minors get away with doping would set a terrible precedent and encourage coaches to take dangerous risks with their minor athletes' health.

But , as has already been stated, the real guilty parties are the adults around her. It's depressing they aren't being banned.

 

[throw_triple_flip]

although it is quite unfair because if the result had been returned 28 hours earlier then Kamila would have been replaced and ROC would have just as easily won gold.

What a ridiculous thing to type. You don't win for what you might do.

There are many unfair things about this situation and that is not one of them. Where is the consideration or empathy for the other clean athletes affected by this? A child was doped for heaven's sake! That's really serious.

 

[Skating91]

So we have banned the teenager for 4 years (as expected) and all the adults around her walked away without any consequences. We have learned nothing...

Not expected. Quite unprecedented. WADA must now go after every protected child athlete with the same vigour as they have pursued Valieva otherwise questions will be asked. It does not matter if it is a trace amount of a common drug no-one really knows whether it gives benefits, but WADA must go after them and seek 4 years.

This is what people wanted.

 

[LolaSkatesInJapan]

The Russian championships will be held the final weekend of 2025 anyway so she will be able to skate in it.

She would effectively be missing out on Spartakiad (I don't think she was skating in that she had given up for the season imo), all of 2024, then some GP stages late 2025.

Spartakiad 2024, two GP stages 2024 next season, Russian championship December 2024, GP final 2025, then two GP stages 2025. 7 events, plus demonstration events, Channel 1 Cup, jumping tournament (I doubt any senior female apart from Adelia would bother competing in future).

Anyway she was already banned from international events.

She makes enough money to buy her own coaches, trainers, and ice time.

Honestly, I thought she was finished anyway looking at her the passion had left her and she was going through the motions especially with the free skate. It's like she hated it and didn't even try with the choreography. Then the shows in St Petersburg from last night she fully commits to them and there's some emotion to the skating, and that's all just improvised stuff for the most part.

It's real glass half full stuff, but the time off, she won't be able to train at Team Tutberitze buy a new coach, buy a choreographer, make a lot of money doing shows, and she might return to competition at the end of next year reinvigorated maybe doing a performance along the lines like a Frolova. I think she can retain the 4T.

There's got to be more to this to give a 4 year suspension to a minor athlete when I have read some of the excuses from adult athletes (recently), and protected athletes who have been caught with multiple positive samples have been allowed to keep their results and escape sanction with flimsy excuses. The tennis player Yastremskaya who just made the semi final at the Australian Opan had a real unbelievable excuse and had it overturned without a whimper from WADA.

What if it was planted. How do you go about proving it if there's no evidence?

Apart from

I thought she was finished anyway looking at her the passion had left her and she was going through the motions especially with the free skate.

which I absolutely disagree, she's not finished at all, she went through recent health issues + big body changes with adulthood + stress waiting for this CAS decision, yet she kept skating beautifully and she has many years yet to skate, which I hope she does and doesn't let this unfair decision get her too sad and depressed with no motivation to continue, I absolutely agree with all the rest you said.
She can skate the 2025 Russian Championships, keep up with shows and fully supported by many. people who do appreciate her.

But very, very sad CAS decision nevertheless

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

And now the (probably) long drawn-out drama of how the final podium shakes out.

What drama? With Valieva's results eliminated, the U.S. wins gold, Japan, silver, and Canada, bronze, in the team event. Where do you see any drama arising? That's what the numbers will add up to, minus Valieva's results.