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- Aug 8, 2023
They will say its an insipid elevator music program filled with trivial kicks. Trust me, I've seen it. As if they didnt marvel before they were told they shouldnt.
Insatiable people
Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups
- Thread starter GS Forum Staff
- Start date
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- Mar 7, 2015
The wording on this tweet is smart. Very smart.
Moving up, means moving up.. not just medal results but points... So D/Q Valieva means moving up Madeline's results and all other women's results. Then the results are changed for medals.
I am not surprised they didn't recalculate though... They rarely do that.
I am also not surprised about the possibility that Skate Canada appeals the decision.
I am even less surprised that ROC would also appeal but that's ridiculous because their skater has been banned and the decision has been made to remove all her results... What do they want to appeal on now?
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- Aug 16, 2022
If you actually read discussion, then you can see a lot of examples where one athlete DQ doesn't affect the team standings.
I find it funny that such situations are considered completely okay as long as Russians don't benefit from them.
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- Aug 8, 2023
That point has been discussed incessantly here, get off the high horse. You will not be seeing the required full legislative reconstruction of any system over this, there is too much protection. They throw in the girl and let the horde rave back and forth, and the system is untouched. Oldest trick in the book.
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- Mar 7, 2015
I have read the discussion.
I have also read the wording of the rule that says that athletes finishing behind a D/Q skater will be moved up.
So, the ROC team should not be entirely disqualified. I am fine with that. But skaters behind Kamila should be moved up. Why would Kamila retain these 10 points ? (to clarify, I am aware the points were stripped away from Kamila). Why should they not be reallocated ? I mean, she is not retaining her other medals and skaters like Loena are being moved up for her Euro performance right ?
You cannot decide what you move up and what you don't move up arbitrarily... You move it all up.
Here is the statement from Skate Canada if you haven't read it.
Skate Canada’s Response to the ISU’s Statement Regarding the Awarding of Medals for the 2022 Beijing Olympic Games Figure Skating Team Competition
Skate Canada is extremely disappointed with the International Skating Union’s [...]
skatecanada.ca
Skate Canada’s Response to the ISU’s Statement Regarding the Awarding of Medals for the 2022 Beijing Olympic Games Figure Skating Team Competition
January 30, 2024/by Skate CanadaSkate Canada is extremely disappointed with the International Skating Union’s (ISU) position on the long-awaited awarding of medals for the 2022 Beijing Olympic Games Figure Skating Team Competition.
The Court for Arbitration for Sport (CAS) ruled that in addition to a four-year ban from competition, the ban includes “the disqualification [of] all competitive results” achieved by Russian figure skater Kamila Valieva since the positive test. The ISU in its recent decision is not applying Rule 353, which states that “competitors having finished the competition and who initially placed lower than the disqualified competitor will move up accordingly in their placement.”
Skate Canada strongly disagrees with the ISU’s position on this matter and will consider all options to appeal this decision.
So my reading of the rule is that ROC would finish 4th in the team event. Maybe we are not reading things the same way but you cannot say I am not reading.
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- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
Shouting from my high horse: You're an apologist for the very system you cite.
I'm blocking you, and I suggest you do the same to me.
We KNOW who.
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- Aug 8, 2023
I literally couldnt care less about any system
But thanks for being the first to overtly admit you're hiding, unlike the others.
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- Mar 28, 2014
Unfortunately ISU will probably respond that this rule applies to singles, dance, and pairs, not the team event because they didn't bother to create rules for that. Hopefully they bother to create a clause in light of this situation.
Award the medals to the US and Japan. Let Canada and Russia sort their mess out. Though it is nice to see that Canada finally grew a spine and actually said something. 2 years of silence before this.
A positive test does not indicate the athlete was drugged, it could be contamination that the athlete can never prove. It is guilty until proven innocent. Of course the training headquarters should be investigated to cover every base.
Still it was a strange decision to give 4 years to Kamila when we compare to the 15 year old swimmer who got caught doping twice despite saying it was either contamination or sabotage with zero proof to back this up. Just words.
She will have certainly served her punishment at the end of 2025 and all should be forgiven. Few athletes have ever paid a higher price.
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- Aug 16, 2022
Only in individual events, as Europeans for example.
In team event TEAMS are moving up after Kami scores were wiped.
That is exactly what happen.
Rule which is mentioned by Skate Canada is addressing only individual events
Yes, totally agree with that. It breaks my heart that Liza missed the Olympics again just because of a lab in Stockholm.
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- Mar 7, 2015
And you think that's fair ? I don't. Because, exactly, figure skating team event is an addition of individual ranking. So wiping the scores isn't enough. Each segment of the team event is made of individual events.
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- Aug 16, 2022
Well, it is rules. According to lots of people here that mean that this is fair. Of course right now, when such rules are benefitting Russians those people start reconsidering their position.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
If you're looking for someone who is excusing any drug cheat, then you're talking to the wrong man.
I advocate a lifetime ban for any drug cheat. I don't care if that individual is from Russia or is my next-door neighbor.
I think the IOC should take ownership of this. Forget WADA, forget the sports federations, ignore the critics. I think it is within the IOC's power to disqualify any drug cheat from ever appearing in the Olympic Games. If they do that, it will go a long way in fixing the doping issue in sports.
Edit: For example, I was and remain horrified that Justin Gatlin was allowed to compete in the Olympics once his ban had expired, and ashamed that he stood on the medal podium. This is not a nationalistic issue for me.
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- Mar 7, 2015
I have not changed my position and it has nothing to do with ROC. In any case, it seems like ROC doesn't want their bronze medal. So I guess their athletes will never get it anyways.
And what about following anti-doping rules to start with ?
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- Dec 7, 2022
There's no reason to gloat. I wouldn't say Kamila is the biggest talent skating has ever seen, what do I know how to measure talent - but she's definitely an amazing talent, yes. But if we agree that she had the talent to do amazing things without doping, why not direct the anger at those who gave her the substance? Because without them Kamila would simply not be called a doper. She would not be banned.
Why is the anger directed at the WADA, CAS, the ISU, the Swedish lab, the IOC, Vincent Zhou, everyone - but not the ones who doped her?
Yes, of course there are dopers, and yes, of course some have gotten away with less or even extremely mild punishment - but that is just the way the law system works, cases are different, and also judges are different - if you dope you risk punishment. We can come up with all kinds of cases, and the consequences are simply not consequent, but also very different to understand as a laymen, especially if we don't know all the exact circumstances and what exactly was said in court. Overall Kamila was definitely not "targeted". Nobody went over any normal limits. Some might have punished her less, but if we take into regard that she has skated as if there was no doping case for the last two years, an only 2 year retroactive ban would have meant she can skate without pause - which happened before with athletes, yes! But that's not what a doper can rely on to happen.
She should have been protected from this, but not from WADA, or the ISU or CAS.
And once the doping case was opened, any responsible adult (and there are adults responsible for this doping, I'm 100% sure) should have come out and protected her by admitting what they did. Or what they knew about others doing. Did they? No. They threw Kamila under the bus: the girl was careless, if not outright greedy. Yet, many "fans" of Kamila or Russian skating do not direct their anger at these adults. At all.
Why?
Why is the anger directed at the WADA, CAS, the ISU, the Swedish lab, the IOC, Vincent Zhou, everyone - but not the ones who doped her?
Yes, of course there are dopers, and yes, of course some have gotten away with less or even extremely mild punishment - but that is just the way the law system works, cases are different, and also judges are different - if you dope you risk punishment. We can come up with all kinds of cases, and the consequences are simply not consequent, but also very different to understand as a laymen, especially if we don't know all the exact circumstances and what exactly was said in court. Overall Kamila was definitely not "targeted". Nobody went over any normal limits. Some might have punished her less, but if we take into regard that she has skated as if there was no doping case for the last two years, an only 2 year retroactive ban would have meant she can skate without pause - which happened before with athletes, yes! But that's not what a doper can rely on to happen.
She should have been protected from this, but not from WADA, or the ISU or CAS.
And once the doping case was opened, any responsible adult (and there are adults responsible for this doping, I'm 100% sure) should have come out and protected her by admitting what they did. Or what they knew about others doing. Did they? No. They threw Kamila under the bus: the girl was careless, if not outright greedy. Yet, many "fans" of Kamila or Russian skating do not direct their anger at these adults. At all.
Why?
She's been stripped of her points. This is why ROC are bronze instead gold.
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- Aug 16, 2022
Official statement by RusFed:
The Russian Figure Skating Federation (FFKKR) categorically disagrees with the sanction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) on the four-year disqualification of Kamila Valieva, who, being a protected person, was actually equated to an adult athlete, as well as the decision of the International Skating Union (ISU) to deprive Russian athletes of gold medals in team figure skating competitions on ice skating at the 2022 Olympic Winter Games in Beijing.
At the moment, FFKKR has not received any official documents and is waiting for an official notification from the ISU, on the basis of which such a decision was made.
For our part, we declare that the FFKKR has taken and will take all necessary measures to protect the rights and legitimate interests of our team and each athlete individually, including in court. The interests of our skaters have always been and remain the most important priority of the Federation.
We were and still are with our athletes. We are confident in their purity and honesty. We express our full support to all team members who represented our country at the 2022 Olympic Winter Games in Beijing and are rightfully the winners of the figure skating team tournament, and the figure skaters are Olympic champions.
The Russian Figure Skating Federation (FFKKR) categorically disagrees with the sanction of the Court of Arbitration for Sport (CAS) on the four-year disqualification of Kamila Valieva, who, being a protected person, was actually equated to an adult athlete, as well as the decision of the International Skating Union (ISU) to deprive Russian athletes of gold medals in team figure skating competitions on ice skating at the 2022 Olympic Winter Games in Beijing.
At the moment, FFKKR has not received any official documents and is waiting for an official notification from the ISU, on the basis of which such a decision was made.
For our part, we declare that the FFKKR has taken and will take all necessary measures to protect the rights and legitimate interests of our team and each athlete individually, including in court. The interests of our skaters have always been and remain the most important priority of the Federation.
We were and still are with our athletes. We are confident in their purity and honesty. We express our full support to all team members who represented our country at the 2022 Olympic Winter Games in Beijing and are rightfully the winners of the figure skating team tournament, and the figure skaters are Olympic champions.
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