Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

[Alex Fedorov]

The sad and ironic thing is that KV was an excellent skater as a junior and had transitioned well to senior. She had all the talent and ability to win without juicing. Why any of this happened is beyond me. The person who made the decision for her to use TMZ was an idiot or blindly ambitious on her behalf. I do think consequences are appropriate and warranted. And yes Carol1 (great post) I do remember Meldonium. I know of one athlete (tennis) who used it because she stated it was for her asthma. Yet it had not been previously disclosed that she even had asthma. Or what she took after she could no longer take Meldonium (see Jon Wertheim, sportswriter). She was banned for a couple of years and then retired.

Asthma is a common condition among Norwegian skiers and biathletes. While the worldwide average incidence rate is approximately 5%, the Norwegian team sometimes has up to 75% asthmatics. Such seriously ill people could compete at the Paralympics, but for some reason they prefer the regular Olympics, where they often win. This situation has been dragging on for decades and no one seems to be interested, although the drugs used by these gallant and clean athletes, unlike meldonium, have a clinically proven and brightly pronounced effect.

But the situation with Maria Sharapova was completely different. By the way, she herself made a statement about taking meldonium for many years (since 2006). Let me remind you that the drug was banned on January 1, 2016.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

If we are talking about integrity of the figure skating as a sport the right results ISU should come with is - Gold: no one, Silver: USA, Bronze: Japan... And that's all

 

[4everchan]

If we are talking about integrity of the figure skating as a sport the right results ISU should come with is - Gold: no one, Silver: USA, Bronze: Japan... And that's all

In some ways, it would make more sense ..still not perfect. There is probably no perfect solution to that mess

 

[yelyoh]

Asthma is a common condition among Norwegian skiers and biathletes. While the worldwide average incidence rate is approximately 5%, the Norwegian team sometimes has up to 75% asthmatics. Such seriously ill people could compete at the Paralympics, but for some reason they prefer the regular Olympics, where they often win. This situation has been dragging on for decades and no one seems to be interested, although the drugs used by these gallant and clean athletes, unlike meldonium, have a clinically proven and brightly pronounced effect.

But the situation with Maria Sharapova was completely different. By the way, she herself made a statement about taking meldonium for many years (since 2006). Let me remind you that the drug was banned on January 1, 2016.

For the record, I have/have had asthma (and other health issues) and it severely compromised my ability to train when I ran track. Her explanation was not deemed sufficient and she was banned - like other athletes who use performance enhancing drugs. And she had to make that statement to protect her endosements. And for the record, I like Maria. She has a hilarious, self-depracating self of humor. And she was a good though injury-prone athlete. And so back to the Winter Olympics and KV, the decision though clearly controversial in both directions, was the one that was handed down. TBC.

 

[Jumping_Bean]

Asthma is a common condition among Norwegian skiers and biathletes. While the worldwide average incidence rate is approximately 5%, the Norwegian team sometimes has up to 75% asthmatics. Such seriously ill people could compete at the Paralympics, but for some reason they prefer the regular Olympics, where they often win. This situation has been dragging on for decades and no one seems to be interested, although the drugs used by these gallant and clean athletes, unlike meldonium, have a clinically proven and brightly pronounced effect.

You do realise that there are studies about the effect of elite long-endurance sports on the lungs and how these sports significantly increase the risk of developing or exacerbating lung conditions? There are even studies about Norwegian elite athletes, and in clinical settings, the athletes diagnosed with asthma also actually had lower lung capacity, so - surprise, surprise - aren't "faking it" as you clearly are trying to insinuate. Giving asthma medication to asthmatics is not giving them an advantage, it is levelling the playing field. Let me put it like this: You have a solid wall of 1.70m height and one person who is 1.60 m tall and another one who is 1.80 m tall. Does giving the person who is 1.60 m tall a 20 cm high crate to stand on to look over the wall give them any advantage over the person who is 1.80 m tall? No, not really, right?

The Paralympics are also not for "seriously ill people", they are for people with certain birth defects, developmental divergences or disabilities that cannot be treated in a way that would allow them to compete as equals with non-affected people. A person with hypertension can be treated to the point where their biomarkers resemble those of healthy people, while a person who is blind cannot simply be made seeing (in most cases).

 

[Minz]

TUE’s exist if you have a reason. Believe it or not, sometimes, people actually do need to take medications and are not faking conditions.

 

[Baron Vladimir]

In some ways, it would make more sense ..still not perfect. There is probably no perfect solution to that mess

At least I'm happy my beloved Anna Shcherbakova now have World, Olympic and plus European title

 

[Minz]

My other question is how exactly do the other medals get reallocated? Like does Valieva just put them in the mail and they get sent to the athletes who get them? And how do they ensure that it actually gets done? Just curious as to how this process works if anyone knows.

 

[YuBluByMe]

If we are talking about integrity of the figure skating as a sport the right results ISU should come with is - Gold: no one, Silver: USA, Bronze: Japan... And that's all

I agree with the way it is now, but if anything has to change, that’s the way to go.

 

[el henry]

I see many "laughing" emojis to posts that are not written for amusement.

Since I do not believe that anyone on this forum would be so cowardly as to hide behind a laughing emoji rather than engage in conversation, I must assume they are slips of the wrist.

And I will do so.

ETA: including of course, any slips of the wrist or cowardly reactions to this post, which was not meant to be amusing.

 

[Mathman]

This nonsense has to end. Just set up the ceremony for the US and Japanese teams to get their medals so they don't have to wait at least another year to finally get their medals. Let Canada and the Russians appeal and when a decision is finally made either give the Canadians a ceremony for their medals or if the Russians win the Bronze ship them off with FedEx.

I would say, forget the ceremonies. Just mail out the medals. The recipients can play their national anthems on itunes at their leisure.

 

[skatingguy]

And I'm saying the IOC should ignore that CAS ruling. The IOC should withdraw whatever fealty they have to CAS in this instance and dare anybody to do something about it.

It's not the CAS Games. It's the Olympic Games, and this seemingly never-ending series of drug scandals has damaged the standing of the Olympic movement in the eyes of the public.

You see it all the time in these discussions... "Everybody on the Olympic level is doping, they're just not getting caught." I bet if I looked, I could find that sentiment expressed on this thread.

If it is true, it means that the threat of existing sanctions is insufficient to deter doping among any elite athletes. How's this for a deterrent: "No matter what you do in life from this moment forward, you will NEVER call yourself an Olympian."

If it is not true, it means that clean athletes, those who have played by the rules, are smeared. Doping athletes besmirch the reputations of every competitor who enters the field of play, because people assume they are doping. Personally, I'd like to see some lawsuits from clean athletes who have been harmed against their cheating counterparts. Financially ruining a few of these cheats might help - and I'm not just talking forfeiting prize money. I'm talking about going after their last dime. I'd like to see Lance Armstrong and Justin Gatlin destitute, living in a cardboard box.

That seems unlikely because the IOC is still subject to laws, and if they ignored the CAS ruling in one case then they couldn't just go back to CAS to appeal a ruling in a different case. Also, the IOC is headquartered in Switzerland, as is CAS, as is the Swiss Federal Tribunal is obviously in Switzerland so there are limits to the power of IOC even to adjudicate their own events.

 

[beachmouse]

You do realise that there are studies about the effect of elite long-endurance sports on the lungs and how these sports significantly increase the risk of developing or exacerbating lung conditions? There are even studies about Norwegian elite athletes, and in clinical settings, the athletes diagnosed with asthma also actually had lower lung capacity, so - surprise, surprise - aren't "faking it" as you clearly are trying to insinuate. Giving asthma medication to asthmatics is not giving them an advantage, it is levelling the playing field. Let me put it like this: You have a solid wall of 1.70m height and one person who is 1.60 m tall and another one who is 1.80 m tall. Does giving the person who is 1.60 m tall a 20 cm high crate to stand on to look over the wall give them any advantage over the person who is 1.80 m tall? No, not really, right?

Interestingly, there were studies about 15 years back that traced athletic-induced asthma in swimmers back to so many training pools not properly calibrating pool chemicals, leading to lung issues durign heavy training blocks.

This was after years of accusations from the usual suspects over fake TUEs for asthma inhalers for many elite swimmers.

Given the extremely cold temperatures many Nordic skiers train and race in, I wouldn’t be surprised if there was a higher likelihood of lung damage because of those training conditions.

My other question is how exactly do the other medals get reallocated? Like does Valieva just put them in the mail and they get sent to the athletes who get them? And how do they ensure that it actually gets done? Just curious as to how this process works if anyone knows.

Pretty much that. Some dopers refuse to give them back, but there’s not much the IOC can really do to pursue that.

 

[skatingguy]

She competed at the Commonwealth Games and is based in the United States.

I didn't know that she competed at the Commonwealth Games. The articles I read only referenced high school competitions, and the event at which she was competing when the doping violation came up. Sorry about that misinformation

She last competed three days ago.

Anything short of an appeal from WADA and seeking a 4 year suspension could possibly indicate a bias and an agenda against Valieva.

To me this is highly discriminatory. It highly unlikely WADA are appealing this.

That's a big jump of logic there. I don't know whether WADA has or has not appealed the decision, but I agree that WADA should appeal it,.

 

[NanaPat]

My other question is how exactly do the other medals get reallocated? Like does Valieva just put them in the mail and they get sent to the athletes who get them? And how do they ensure that it actually gets done? Just curious as to how this process works if anyone knows.

I think it is the responsibility for retrieving Olympic medals is on the athlete's national olympic committee. I seem to recall that when Ben Johnson was stripped of his medal, it was a member of the Canadian Olympic Committee who knocked on his door and asked for it back.

For non-Olympic medals, I suspect the ISU would expect an official from the Russian Skating Federation to retrieve them. Good luck with that! Maybe they have some extras they can award to the new/real winners.

 

[Mathman]

And I'm saying the IOC should ignore that CAS ruling. The IOC should withdraw whatever fealty they have to CAS in this instance and dare anybody to do something about it.

I am not a lawyer, but I think that the whole idea of "mandatory arbitration" is a legal mare's nest. Here is the Court of Arbitration for Sports' official stance: "In the context of ordinary arbitration, the parties are free to agree on the law applicable to the merits of the dispute. Failing such agreement, Swiss law applies."

Well, that's clear as mud. You are "free to agree." But the CAS, the IOC, and the ISU are all headqurted in Lausanne, Switzerland. I would suppose that it is not a simple matter for someone who doesn't like a CAS ruling just to tell them to go to hell. If that were the case, we wouldn't need "Swiss Law" at all, everyone could just exercise his freedom to agree.

About the whole doping issue in general, I am not optimistic. If you take performance enhancing drugs then your performance will be enhanced and you will win. If you don't, then it won't and you won't. Crooks and cheaters do not expect to get caught, so draconian punishments cannot be relied on to have as much effect as we might hope.

Baseball player Pete Rose, the all-time leader in hits, was banned for life from for betting on sports. That did not stop the National Football League from accepting the "betting and gaming industry" as its number two sponsor (dropping beer to number three). Money talks, principle walks.

 

[alexikeguchi]

I would say, forget the ceremonies. Just mail out the medals. The recipients can play their national anthems on itunes at their leisure.

I hope this is a poor attempt at a joke. These athletes have trained hard for many years, made many sacrifices, and then had the Olympic moment that was the purpose of all their efforts stolen from them by cheating cheaters who cheat. If they don't deserve a public celebration for their accomplishments, why do we have medal ceremonies at all?

 

[anonymoose_au]

When I posted yesterday I thought Russia got no medal at all, so it was a big surprise to see they got bronze!

But ROC is appealing the decision? Is the gold worth that much to them? They might find themselves banned forever from figure skating with this sort of behaviour. Which is just unfair to all the skaters in that country who want to compete internationally...

Also... I haven't been following - cake story? How would the banned substance get in the cake?!

What a mess...

 

[zebobes]

I think that it is important to point out that it is the Russian Olympic committee that is appealing the decision, not the Russian figure skating federation. I have a feeling that that this is not something the Rusfed would want to do, but that this is something more politically motivated by the powers that be to make a statement.

Unfortunately, it is the athletes in the middle that will ultimately lose the most from this behavior.

 

[Tyranid]

One can definitely see that the vatnik pain is real in this thread.

I have lived (and still currently do) in russia for about two thirds of my life, including the past 14 years, while having to eat all of the dirt that it so generoulsy offers (that is why I like to call it "rushka" and have every right to do so). Now, I apologize for going off-topic, but many of the posts and "arguments" of russian and pro-russian users here are a sort of a microcosm which quite accurately shows the degenerate state of the russian civilization in general: arrogance, rash and overly emotional behavior, diverting attention from the topic at hand (we're talking about her doping case, not about how high her scores were or who is she more talented than), and, of course, the beloved russian/sovok whataboutism.

Watch russian politicicians of any rank, ministers of sport, sports federation heads, other public figures (celebs, other athletes, etc.) respond to this doping verdict in the following days, it will be the same stuff, although in a much more extreme form than what you have seen here. It is sad to see so-called my so-called country go this way.

Sigh... apologies for this outburst.