Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups | Page 268 | Golden Skate

Kamila Valieva: Anti-doping Case and Follow-ups

21 days is the limit. It took 40-45 to return the result, so clearly the lab is at fault for that delay.

Sample was taken the 25th December, arrived at the lab on the 27th December. If they took the sample the 25th December, but it arrived at the lab 7th February then you could blame RUSADA, but since the lab had the sample for 6 weeks and 21 days to return the result, the lab has to take the blame on this one.
All evidence concerning any wrong doing on the part of the lab should have been presented to CAS by the lawyers representing Kamila. It is their job to explore every possibility where the rules and procedures were not followed. If they feel that CAS did not take that into consideration in their ruling, it is their job to appeal that decision based on that.

Whatever happened with the lab, I do hope that all the evidence concerning the delays was presented by her lawyers and that it was taken into consideration in the ruling. Kamila deserves good legal representation in this case and I hope her lawyers provide it for her with the upcoming appeal. CAS may rule against the evidence that they provide, but the lawyers should have supplied it and explored every possibility on her behalf.
 
All evidence concerning any wrong doing on the part of the lab should have been presented to CAS by the lawyers representing Kamila. It is their job to explore every possibility where the rules and procedures were not followed. If they feel that CAS did not take that into consideration in their ruling, it is their job to appeal that decision based on that.

Whatever happened with the lab, I do hope that all the evidence concerning the delays was presented by her lawyers and that it was taken into consideration in the ruling. Kamila deserves good legal representation in this case and I hope her lawyers provide it for her with the upcoming appeal. CAS may rule against the evidence that they provide, but the lawyers should have supplied it and explored every possibility on her behalf.
Apparently the report of the case is very elaborate... so let's assume here for a moment that Kamila's lawyers did all they could to defend their high profile client/athlete. In the end, lab delays or not, it doesn't matter for Kamila, she would have been suspended, then banned. Just like it ended up happening.
 
Apparently the report of the case is very elaborate... so let's assume here for a moment that Kamila's lawyers did all they could to defend their high profile client/athlete. In the end, lab delays or not, it doesn't matter for Kamila, she would have been suspended, then banned. Just like it ended up happening.
Exactly. They would have done their job and explored every possibility in her defence. Even with the outcome of being banned, the lawyers would have done everything they could for her and didn't miss anything that could have helped her case.
 
Apparently the report of the case is very elaborate... so let's assume here for a moment that Kamila's lawyers did all they could to defend their high profile client/athlete. In the end, lab delays or not, it doesn't matter for Kamila, she would have been suspended, then banned. Just like it ended up happening.
Unfortunately in the end It most likely is all going to be left to speculation if ROC has their way because I’m nearly certain they have asked that all evidence presented in front of the CAS be sealed and kept private citing she is a protected athlete (reason being she is under 18). I believe they likely will win this motion and Kamila and the evidence for and against her will remain protected.

I still hope that doesn’t include learning the reasoning behind the decision to not reallocate points. Clearly they left the door open in the Olympic Events to exclude rule 353 from the ISU Technical handbook but it’s driving bonkers as to why!! To me that’s the only mystery remaining. Why oh why is this event not limited to the ISU handbook. I wonder if other sports have similar provisions at Olympic events?
 
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I think ROC have the stronger case because they selected their team in good faith, Kamila did not test positive at the event, performed her programs within the rules. If WADA had followed their own procedures then ROC would have had an opportunity to replace her.
I wonder what evidence, if any will become public. It will be difficult to prove that the lab is to blame for not only the delayed results but that their negligence led to consequential interference affecting the integrity of the event ( i.e. Team Russia’s decision making) It’s not the worst case I could imagine being presented to prevent reallocating points but I don’t believe it will sit well with many fans. Even if there is some precedent for such an argument in front of the CAS the fact that Russia brought an athlete who violated doping rules just prior to attending the Olympics is not only concerning but arguably presents its own consequential interference to the integrity of the event :unsure:
 
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It's fair to be upset that the lab took so long to return the results of Kamila's test. However, it was not the lab's decision to have Kamila compete in the team event when they knew she had an outstanding test. They took the risk and assumed it would be negative. They were wrong. Aside from whatever caused the test to be positive, aside from the lab delay, choosing Kamila to skate without having the result of that test was a gamble made by those who chose the team athletes. The other Russian athletes have a right to be upset about this choice and how it has affected their result.
 
It's fair to be upset that the lab took so long to return the results of Kamila's test. However, it was not the lab's decision to have Kamila compete in the team event when they knew she had an outstanding test. They took the risk and assumed it would be negative. They were wrong. Aside from whatever caused the test to be positive, aside from the lab delay, choosing Kamila to skate without having the result of that test was a gamble made by those who chose the team athletes. The other Russian athletes have a right to be upset about this choice and how it has affected their result.
As a fan of many Russian athletes I do wish they would take an over abundance of caution and elevated awareness of their own responsibilities when attending major international events. They have all the means necessary to test each and every athlete themselves before sending them anywhere. Yes the tests are in an unofficial capacity but they do not need to rely on international labs to officially certify test results when selecting teams and individuals to send. I mean yes…they may not catch everyone and disputable results can appear at international events but given their recent violations and controversies I think they need to be beyond extra cautious.

This sport needs it’s Russian athletes back on the Main Stage and soon IMO.
 
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So I guess you hate bodybuilding and all of the crazy stuff they do.
And yes bodybuilders have a high mortality rate and yet it's still crazy popular despite all of the participants knowing this. Are you going to outlaw it?
That's why there are divisions: bodybuilding and "natural" bodybuilding. And everyone gets to decide how risky they want to be in the "drugged" event, but they all know it's high risk regardless. If they don't like the risk, they signup for the "natural" competitions.

I already pointed out you can't do that with children since they are below the age of consent, but with adults we already have had it happening for years and years. Are you going to outlaw it and tell adults what they can and can't do with their bodies because its super risky? Make sure you outlaw smoking, drinking, and meat-eating while you're at it because those are also high risk. And driving cars or climbing up ladders.

I'm for freedom of choice for adults as long as they've read the waiver and understood all of the things that can go wrong.

I absolutely hate bodybuilding, yes. Although from what I know they do have some testing even there, but yeah, I know nothing about it because I would never watch that.
I only have some kind of knowledge from someone I know who knows someone who did bodybuilding competitively and honestly him and his partner have obvious serious issues with self esteem and a totally screwed body image.

I think it's too easy to say people are adults and it's their responsibility only. People smoke or eat for pleasure, yes, but we as societies usually don't put a price out there ((althought there are some freak eating competitions or the likes but those should not exist either...)): If you smoke more, eat more, we as a society will recognize you, hang a medal around your neck, give you prize money and make you famous - so if you want that, make sure to smoke and eat A LOT and MORE.

We can also make competitions where people have to fight lions to gain a prize or where they have to balance in 100 meters above concrete or where they have to run from pistol shots and if they don't make it - well. They decided to take part, didn't they? They are adults, so they have to know.
 
I wish the WADA would not have said "it's not worth commenting" to the all out doping games, I wish they would use this to explain doping and anti doping, because I think many people are just not educated on this topic at all.

And one of the topics they should educate a lot more on is why seemingly harmless, everyday medication like ephedrine or substances the body itself produces are on the doping list, as well as why micro dosages matter.
 
I'll help you with it. I gave you the name in the post you just had to search for it.


21 days is the limit. It took 40-45 to return the result, so clearly the lab is at fault for that delay.

Sample was taken the 25th December, arrived at the lab on the 27th December. If they took the sample the 25th December, but it arrived at the lab 7th February then you could blame RUSADA, but since the lab had the sample for 6 weeks and 21 days to return the result, the lab has to take the blame on this one.
So again, no source, cause I googled it and can't find 21 days anywhere!

Please provide where your vast knowledge comes from.
 
All evidence concerning any wrong doing on the part of the lab should have been presented to CAS by the lawyers representing Kamila. It is their job to explore every possibility where the rules and procedures were not followed. If they feel that CAS did not take that into consideration in their ruling, it is their job to appeal that decision based on that.

The CAS appeal was argued over the theory of contaminated food, not whether WADA's lab deprived Kamila of the opportunity to find the smoking gun in a supplements bottle, etc by sending the result 6 weeks after it was collected. We will have to see the report if it ever gets released.

I think Kamila was kind of railroaded into this contaminated food theory from day one in Beijing, they should have said we do not know we need to go back to Moscow to investigate. They should have said WADA's lab denied us this opportunity to investigate by not returning the sample result within 21 days. It was a total debacle. 15 year old being interviewed without representation. Total disgrace.

If they choose to appeal this CAS decision, then I imagine they will make an argument that this Estonian guy who was at RUSADA lacked objectivity, and that late notification possibly deprived Kamila the opportunity to test all food, supplements, cosmetics she had in her possession.

In a world where you are guilty and must prove innocence, time is of the essence and the accused must be given every opportunity to find evidence to prove their innocence. To not allow the accused to commence an investigation until late February rather than mid-January creates what is the equivalent of what would be a contaminated crime scene.

Whatever happened with the lab, I do hope that all the evidence concerning the delays was presented by her lawyers and that it was taken into consideration in the ruling. Kamila deserves good legal representation in this case and I hope her lawyers provide it for her with the upcoming appeal. CAS may rule against the evidence that they provide, but the lawyers should have supplied it and explored every possibility on her behalf.

The CAS hearing would have been based on whether it is probable that Kamila tested positive via eating food the grandfather accidentally contaminated. They weren't there to argue whether WADA were incompetent/malicious in waiting until the end of the team event for the lab to send the result.
 
The CAS appeal was argued over the theory of contaminated food, not whether WADA's lab deprived Kamila of the opportunity to find the smoking gun in a supplements bottle, etc by sending the result 6 weeks after it was collected. We will have to see the report if it ever gets released.

I think Kamila was kind of railroaded into this contaminated food theory from day one in Beijing, they should have said we do not know we need to go back to Moscow to investigate. They should have said WADA's lab denied us this opportunity to investigate by not returning the sample result within 21 days. It was a total debacle. 15 year old being interviewed without representation. Total disgrace.

If they choose to appeal this CAS decision, then I imagine they will make an argument that this Estonian guy who was at RUSADA lacked objectivity, and that late notification possibly deprived Kamila the opportunity to test all food, supplements, cosmetics she had in her possession.

In a world where you are guilty and must prove innocence, time is of the essence and the accused must be given every opportunity to find evidence to prove their innocence. To not allow the accused to commence an investigation until late February rather than mid-January creates what is the equivalent of what would be a contaminated crime scene.



The CAS hearing would have been based on whether it is probable that Kamila tested positive via eating food the grandfather accidentally contaminated. They weren't there to argue whether WADA were incompetent/malicious in waiting until the end of the team event for the lab to send the result.
Regardless of the explanation for the test result presented by her lawyers, all procedural errors on the part of other parties should be included as part of her defence. Any procedural error that could have the case dismissed would need to be presented by the lawyers. That is their job in addition to providing evidence that would prove her innocence.

I expect that given the high profile nature of this case and what is on the line, her lawyers would have done that. When/if the full ruling is published, I expect that that will be part of it. If it isn't, then her lawyers did not do their job.
 
whole post.


I'm sorry, but it appears that this is a narrative made up to support the conspiracy theory of Kamila set upon by evil outside forces.

If you know what was argued before the CAS and you have a link to the copy of the CAS decision, could you please share.

In the meantime, here are the entities that failed Kamila:

1. RUSADA

2. RusFed

3. Her coaching team, and any other adults responsible for her upbringing and skating.

Period. End of strory. NOT WADA, not CAS, not a drug testing lab.

I believe if someone really cared about Kamila, they should direct their ire to the appropriate entities, that is RUSADA, RusFed and her team. Otherwise, it is protecting the entities who truly failed her.
 
The Athletics Integrity Unit (AIU) has today provisionally suspended marathon
runner, Lawrence Cherono of Kenya and 400m runner, Randolph Ross of the USA, meaning both
athletes are out of the World Athletics Championships Oregon22.

A sample collected from Lawrence Cherono tested positive for trimetazidine, a substance that is
prohibited under the 2022 WADA Prohibited List as a metabolic modulator. Substances in this
category modify how the body metabolizes fat. Trimetazidine is approved for use in some countries
to treat chest pain stemming from a lack of blood supply and oxygen to the heart. Trimetazidine is
a non-specified substance, and a provisional suspension is mandatory following an adverse
analytical finding for such a substance under the World Athletics Anti-Doping Rules unless certain
conditions apply.
The AIU collected the sample from Mr Cherono during an out-of-competition test on 23 May 2022.
The World Anti-Doping Agency (WADA)-accredited laboratory in Lausanne that analysed the sample
received it on 27 May 2002 and notified the AIU of the adverse analytical finding on 13 July 2022.

Mr Cherono was travelling to Eugene at this time and was notified of the adverse analytical finding
when he arrived in Eugene on 14 July 2022
. In accordance with the Rules, the athlete was provided
with an opportunity to show cause to the AIU why he should not be provisionally suspended.
Having considered the submission of Mr Cherono, received late on 15 July, the AIU has determined
that a provisional suspension should apply with immediate effect and Mr Cherono will not take part
in the marathon on 17 July.
The AIU notes that under the WADA International Standard for Laboratories, reporting of sample
results should occur within twenty (20) days of receipt of the sample. In this case, the delay to the
time of reporting was 47 days
. The AIU has made a formal complaint to the laboratory in relation
to this unacceptable delay, which has denied the opportunity for another Kenyan athlete to take
the place of Mr Cherono in the marathon.

Another similar case.

If only WADA went after 35 year old men with the same vigour as 15 year old girls.

Eerily similar cases in relaying the result to the athlete.

You have to wonder where WADA and USADA is in all of this?

Although USADA is an organisation that slaps someone like Jon Jones with a 1 year 3 months suspension I think it was for steroids or testosterone, and this is a recidivist, flagrant offender with no respect for doping rules. USADA thought 15 months was appropriate, no challenge from WADA trying to protect clean athletes. Disrespectful, arrogant, recidivist offender using proven performance enhancers like steroids plus an adult. The 15 year old child with a trace amount of a far less useful drug in her system (which is common in Russia and can be bought over the counter therefore increasing the chance of accidental contamination), then WADA and USADA were demanding four years before the investigation was even completed by RUSADA.
 
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Regardless of the explanation for the test result presented by her lawyers, all procedural errors on the part of other parties should be included as part of her defence. Any procedural error that could have the case dismissed would need to be presented by the lawyers. That is their job in addition to providing evidence that would prove her innocence.

I expect that given the high profile nature of this case and what is on the line, her lawyers would have done that. When/if the full ruling is published, I expect that that will be part of it. If it isn't, then her lawyers did not do their job.

This should have been part of the original plea to RUSADA. WADA were appealing the case brought before RUSADA.

She has been failed on all sides. People who want to destroy to chalk up a victory against supposed Russian doping (for all we know it is just contamination and she is completely innocent), and then on the Russian side it was easier to not ask questions, let her take the hit we will put banners all over Moscow.
 
I'm sorry, but it appears that this is a narrative made up to support the conspiracy theory of Kamila set upon by evil outside forces.

I'm one of the only people here sticking to the facts.

If you know what was argued before the CAS and you have a link to the copy of the CAS decision, could you please share.

We will find out, or maybe not. It hasn't stopped anyone for two years laughing about grandfather's glass even though they don't have the facts.

In the meantime, here are the entities that failed Kamila:

1. RUSADA
They're the one's who "caught" her. They are likely quite pleased with themselves. Maybe WADA will let them sit at the adults table again. It's not RUSADA's job to defend her.

2. RusFed

Maybe they conducted a thorough investigation, maybe not. They are probably happy this is going away.

3. Her coaching team, and any other adults responsible for her upbringing and skating.

This could just be contamination from a supplement but was not able to prove it. I don't think coaches or a parent can be automatically blamed, sometimes these things happen through no-one's fault. Given that she went out of her to have a bunch of legal, approved supplements in her system (which is common in high level athletes), it's odd that the would go to such lengths to do everything properly but then drop a highly illegal pill into the mix to ruin someone's life and risk a 20 year prison term for themselves.

[quotePeriod. End of strory. NOT WADA, not CAS, not a drug testing lab.[/quote]

WADA didn't fail, just highly hypocritical, bloodthirsty with zero respect for the rights of a 15 year old child. A swimmer on American soil can perform despite multiple drugs over multiple tests in her system, let off with a reprimand. One of the worst doping offender on Earth and maybe historythe American Jon Jones, given 15 months by USADA for steroids ticked off by WADA no appeal. American swimmer Cox claims contamination via tap water, just two years and ticket off by WADA.

CAS even said she was honest and credible, said the punishment will be disproportionate and unfair.

The lab is the reason why the US team have empty boxes. No-one else.

I believe if someone really cared about Kamila, they should direct their ire to the appropriate entities, that is RUSADA, RusFed and her team. Otherwise, it is protecting the entities who truly failed her.

RUSADA? The caught her. You wouldn't know about this if not for RUSADA.
 
I absolutely hate bodybuilding, yes. Although from what I know they do have some testing even there, but yeah, I know nothing about it because I would never watch that.
I only have some kind of knowledge from someone I know who knows someone who did bodybuilding competitively and honestly him and his partner have obvious serious issues with self esteem and a totally screwed body image.

I think it's too easy to say people are adults and it's their responsibility only. People smoke or eat for pleasure, yes, but we as societies usually don't put a price out there ((althought there are some freak eating competitions or the likes but those should not exist either...)): If you smoke more, eat more, we as a society will recognize you, hang a medal around your neck, give you prize money and make you famous - so if you want that, make sure to smoke and eat A LOT and MORE.

We can also make competitions where people have to fight lions to gain a prize or where they have to balance in 100 meters above concrete or where they have to run from pistol shots and if they don't make it - well. They decided to take part, didn't they? They are adults, so they have to know.

It's all in what you consider "too dangerous" and how much other people should "make them stop" vs hanging a medal on their necks. I know figure skating is dangerous, but at least we don't intentionally run into each other like football players and hockey players. Those two sports remind me of roman gladiators and people cheer that and hang medals around their necks.


the reality is that the lab being late would have had no impact on a clean athlete.

I've already said over and over again that clean athletes can have accidental positive tests from contamination. It's suddenly "their fault" for testing positive even tho they were taking supplements or whatever that were supposed to be clean and yet were not because the testing factory or someone else screwed up.
That is not fair to anyone because the athlete is CLEAN, but everyone involved is getting screwed over because the lab is late.
Everyone = the other team mates and the other teams who have to wait for medals until the situation is resolved.

Returning a lab result on time to get the athlete disqualified (even if it turns out to be a false positive later), protects EVERYONE. It protects the other teams from being denied medals, it protects the current team that athlete would have been a part of, it protects the image of the Olympics itself.

If Kamila had managed to prove she was accidentally contaminated, you would have been screaming at the lab for taking so long to return her test, which caused everyone to have their medals delayed.


I think ROC have the stronger case because they selected their team in good faith, Kamila did not test positive at the event, performed her programs within the rules. If WADA had followed their own procedures then ROC would have had an opportunity to replace her.

What are the odds WADA's lab forgot to test the one positive test, and this one positive test belonged to the most important athlete in the Russian team, plus was 15 so if they notified her early she could have withdrawn and would have been entitled to confidentiality instead of no stop leaking of confidential information about the child (which continues until today)? It has to be in the billions to one these series of events and coincidences.

I'm not saying there's a conspiracy of some kind it's just a series of events that must be in the billions to one.

That really sums it up. WHY was the positive test delayed? WHY only that test? We don't hear about any other test being delayed. Were there other tests delayed and its just not being mentioned?

All evidence concerning any wrong doing on the part of the lab should have been presented to CAS by the lawyers representing Kamila. It is their job to explore every possibility where the rules and procedures were not followed. If they feel that CAS did not take that into consideration in their ruling, it is their job to appeal that decision based on that.

Whatever happened with the lab, I do hope that all the evidence concerning the delays was presented by her lawyers and that it was taken into consideration in the ruling. Kamila deserves good legal representation in this case and I hope her lawyers provide it for her with the upcoming appeal. CAS may rule against the evidence that they provide, but the lawyers should have supplied it and explored every possibility on her behalf.

I hope she was. But we may never know the full story sadly.

As a fan of many Russian athletes I do wish they would take an over abundance of caution and elevated awareness of their own responsibilities when attending major international events. They have all the means necessary to test each and every athlete themselves before sending them anywhere. Yes the tests are in an unofficial capacity but they do not need to rely on international labs to officially certify test results when selecting teams and individuals to send. I mean yes…they may not catch everyone and disputable results can appear at international events but given their recent violations and controversies I think they need to be beyond extra cautious.

This sport needs it’s Russian athletes back on the Main Stage and soon IMO.

Are they capable of this? If the Russians know how to check their skaters, that means they know how WADA checks skaters, which means they know how to avoid testing positive. One of the points of the Icarus movie was if you know how WADA tests, you can come up with ways to avoid a positive test. The whole mixing urine scene in that movie.
 
That really sums it up. WHY was the positive test delayed? WHY only that test? We don't hear about any other test being delayed. Were there other tests delayed and its just not being mentioned?

I believe it was said last week that at least 1 other athlete had to inquire to WADA about the whereabouts of test results at Europeans. So a point of failure i can see is that it appears that they aren't confirming test results are back and it's being left to athletes. Which to me indicates either they are overly confident in their methods to avoid detection or (& I'm sure people will disagree with this) there isn't something widespread.

Are they capable of this? If the Russians know how to check their skaters, that means they know how WADA checks skaters, which means they know how to avoid testing positive. One of the points of the Icarus movie was if you know how WADA tests, you can come up with ways to avoid a positive test. The whole mixing urine scene in that movie.

I think what Sam is saying is that Rusada or the Russian Fed can run their own tests before assigning someone to the team event. Which I don't think is necessary based on the information we have, every governing body involved in the sport should be demanding that no athlete competes with an official test pending, they've done nothing to fix that.
 
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It's all in what you consider "too dangerous" and how much other people should "make them stop" vs hanging a medal on their necks. I know figure skating is dangerous, but at least we don't intentionally run into each other like football players and hockey players. Those two sports remind me of roman gladiators and people cheer that and hang medals around their necks.
To me the issue is not so much the risk of injury that is inherent in a sport, but rather the situation where children are pushed into such siuations solely in order that adult onlookers can shout and cheer and have a good time.
 
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