Music rights and USFSA rules

[labgoat]

Not sure what this means for the future of rewatching videos…
https://7926325.fs1.hubspotusercontent-na1.net/hubfs/7926325/U.S. Figure Skating Music Policy.pdf?utm_source=hs_email&utm_medium=email&_hsenc=p2ANqtz--9Tm0WiGCKHywGwa7btb7_PmXp3rUPW2CrbqJHHTdnjFh1jskskU4uQLvIlEgeguIx3gJcGBILhHxpXfG2NcwkM-CSxw

Does this mean Peacock replays won’t have music?

 

[saine]

From what I've read, it seems like it will affect the smaller competitions that aren't on Peacock. If there's streaming or videographers selling videos to the skater, that can only be done without music. But competitions on Peacock would be the larger ones who could license the music? I don't think broadcasting Nationals with no music would go down well with NBC.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Even prior to this coming season, and post the 2022 Olympics suit against USfigsk and NBC brought by those musicians who covered another artist's original song in the first place , USfigsk pulled audio from their replays of past U.S. Nationals events on U.S. fan zone. Who is gonna watch skating footage where there's no audio, outside of interested persons who may be deaf? And even then, where's the enjoyment? There's no reason to post footage without audio.

Whatever the problem is, USfigsk need to grow up, get some expert help in strategizing and figuring out these issues, if they wish to maintain the health and growth of figure skating in the U.S. Instead of cluelessly running scared looking for a place to hide.

Fans need to find an organized way to protest and to fight back.

 

[cheerknithanson]

Even prior to this coming season, and post the 2022 Olympics suit against USfigsk and NBC brought by those musicians who covered another artist's original song in the first place , USfigsk pulled audio from their replays of past U.S. Nationals events on U.S. fan zone. Who is gonna watch skating footage where there's no audio, outside of interested persons who may be deaf? And even then, where's the enjoyment? There's no reason to post footage without audio.

Whatever the problem is, USfigsk need to grow up, get some expert help in strategizing and figuring out these issues, if they wish to maintain the health and growth of figure skating in the U.S. Instead of cluelessly running scared looking for a place to hide.

Fans need to find an organized way to protest and to fight back.

I think the ones that need to grow up are the artists who put out the music and record companies. Don't act like 5 year-old babies. Be thankful and humble.

 

[Ic3Rabbit]

I think the ones that need to grow up are the artists who put out the music and record companies. Don't act like 5 year-old babies. Be thankful and humble.

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The music artists and record companies put it out there, it's their creation. If someone was using my creation and I wasn't getting recognized/paid for it, you'd better bet I'd start an issue. That's how it works. This all isn't an issue if the USFS would just credit/pay these artists and do things correctly or just say skaters can't use certain music artists.

 

[TallyT]

I think the ones that need to grow up are the artists who put out the music and record companies. Don't act like 5 year-old babies. Be thankful and humble.

No, they are acting like anyone who works for a living and would like to be paid for their work. I am as cross about what it does for skating as anyone else, but the rise of the internet and the public expectation that all music/art etc should be free is what nearly did for the music industry, destroyed a lot of previously successful careers. Even now, many are having to spend as much time hustling online as making music (there was a podcast by an very high-level Australian musician I listened to not long ago that laid out what they need to do to get clicks and sales online and it's way more work than people think).

It's a problem, and a tough one for officialdom to deal with properly. But be honest, would you agree to feelings of 'thankful and humble' (which doesn't pay the bills, does it?) replacing your salary?

 

[cheerknithanson]

Sorry, it doesn't work that way. The music artists and record companies put it out there, it's their creation. If someone was using my creation and I wasn't getting recognized/paid for it, you'd better bet I'd start an issue. That's how it works. This all isn't an issue if the USFS would just credit/pay these artists and do things correctly or just say skaters can't use certain music artists.

No, they are acting like anyone who works for a living and would like to be paid for their work. I am as cross about what it does for skating as anyone else, but the rise of the internet and the public expectation that all music/art etc should be free is what nearly did for the music industry, destroyed a lot of previously successful careers. Even now, many are having to spend as much time hustling online as making music (there was a podcast by an very high-level Australian musician I listened to not long ago that laid out what they need to do to get clicks and sales online and it's way more work than people think).

It's a problem, and a tough one for officialdom to deal with properly. But be honest, would you agree to feelings of 'thankful and humble' (which doesn't pay the bills, does it?) replacing your salary?

I apologize. I understand about crediting artists when the song is put out there. I 100% agree on it.

It's just frustrating when we can't watch replays for individual programs like a number of countries because it was claimed by certain record companies.

Apologies for sounding like an immature brat.

 

[TallyT]

I apologize. I understand about crediting artists when the song is put out there. I 100% agree on it.

It's just frustrating when we can't replays for individual programs like a number of countries because it was claimed by certain record companies.

Apologies for sounding like an immature brat.

And my apologies for sounding short... I know a lot of folk don't think so much about that side of it (heaven knows I didn't much before listening to that podcast). Some musicians are thankful if a top skater uses their music (the ones whose works were used in Yuzu's shows and tours went on social media about it) but they still probably want at least a bit of money as well.

And I totally agree how frustrating it is, both for us and for the sport in general.

 

[jorge2912]

i think USFSA don't understand the difference between use a music with rights for a sports and without intention of resell or do lucrative activities and use it for resell or distribute with lucrative purposes of course if they offer replay on their platform and with charges for get access to that videos logically will apply the copyrights.

is different if you record a video and suddenly the environmental noise have a music ,that is very understable and can apply copyrights unless who check that have a common sense and notice that is just audio that suddenly captured from the moment when is recording the video and that no apply copyrights because haven't the intention of do a lucrative activity with the audio, is for personal use also neither we have control about the noise there is on environment like a ice rink or the street by example.

being that the case is ok the rule about music rights, maybe sounds like cold but being fair is right .

 

[Magill]

And my apologies for sounding short... I know a lot of folk don't think so much about that side of it (heaven knows I didn't much before listening to that podcast). Some musicians are thankful if a top skater uses their music (the ones whose works were used in Yuzu's shows and tours went on social media about it) but they still probably want at least a bit of money as well.

And I totally agree how frustrating it is, both for us and for the sport in general.

Yes, quite a few musicians seem to love it when Yuzu is using their music, and they share it with their fans on their social media, and he also seems to be on very good personal terms with some of them, if not just friends, but it does not change the fact that they get more than just flowers from him for their input. And music rights are expensive in Japan. Yuzu himself admitted money for music copyright was a really challenging financial burden to young skaters in Japan. I wonder if it might also play a role in difficult access to Japanese skating footage from outside of Japan. Still I do not think there is any problem with it when you're watching from the country. Actually there is a lot of skating on Japanese TV and various outlets and channels when you're in. So it seems they resolved it somehow.
It is not easy to watch US recent skating from outside of US either. Recently, it got much worse. I understand now it is going to be even more difficult, from inside of the country, too. Which will not help the sport's popularity.
This should be resolved on the fed / ISU level. If you just want to cut the costs this way, you could easily end up cutting down your income even further, too.

 

[TontoK]

So much of the music that is chosen by skaters is non-descript. I think they should just have an AI program generate their music and be done with it.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Yeah, the fact is that we live in a very different world and USfigsk needs to make more of an effort to work out whatever the complications are involving streaming, YouTube views, and music rights. Get help from music rights experts. Work with skaters on music selection choices. Do something reasonable to credit and pay artists for their work, while ensuring that fans are not prevented from adequately viewing full programs with video and original audio.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

So much of the music that is chosen by skaters is non-descript. I think they should just have an AI program generate their music and be done with it.

Hmm, I think they could first try to experiment with having skaters use music that's in the public domain, before going AI route. Public domain music use is not a final solution, but a possible stop-gap measure while they figure out what will benefically work the best for everyone longterm.

 

[TallyT]

So much of the music that is chosen by skaters is non-descript. I think they should just have an AI program generate their music and be done with it.

While quite a bit of it (including some of the classical, because being old does not by definition make it good) is not to my taste, I think we should remember that this is for young people to skate to, and the USFS did, I believe, say they were aiming to attract younger people? So modern tastes need to be at least considered. You may find it nondescript, but let's be fair, much of what you and I love the skaters themselves would decry as dreary and past it.

Hmm, I think they could first try to experiment with having skaters use music that's in the public domain, before going AI route. Public domain music use is not a final solution, but a possible stop-gap measure while they figure out what will benefically work the best for everyone longterm.

Even if the music is in the public domain, they do have to pay the performers unless they go for royalty-free...

 

[saine]

So much of the music that is chosen by skaters is non-descript. I think they should just have an AI program generate their music and be done with it.

Considering that AI right now relies on copyrighted material in order to generate art, that would probably make the issues worse

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Even if the music is in the public domain, they do have to pay the performers unless they go for royalty-free...

Yes, sure. It depends a lot on what version of public domain music is selected. I'm obviously grasping for straws here. As I said, this is not a long-term solution at all.

 

[4everchan]

I find very unfortunate that the US Fed doesn't just purchase the necessary licenses. They are not that expensive. I wonder why is it so much harder for the US Fed versus Skate Canada who live streams and archives everything FOR FREE. Maybe someone who knows the different laws can enlighten us...

Re the even remote suggestion (with apology, thank you ! ) that musicians should grow up : you have NO idea how much it costs to even produce an album, let alone market it and distribute it... It's thousands and thousands of dollars.. and it's not the small royalties from online platforms, because really, many people no longer purchase physical copies of albums, that even starts to cover the expenses. So no. It's not the musicians fault. Except for the very very rich ones, most musicians barely make a living. They deserve not only recognition but the money that goes with it. Most of the times, they are very gracious and will say nice things to people using their music... (let alone destroy it with figure skating friendly music cuts LOL) but that doesn't mean that they don't want to be paid. It's always an honour to hear your music broadcast... btw.. one of my track was played for quite a while on national radio stations and guess how much money I made from that LOL

so yeah.. .there you go

Pay the musicians for once and for all. Costume designers get paid. Choreographers get paid. Music editors get paid too. Dance coaches, physios... why not musicians when it is often the most striking and memorable part of the program (sometimes even more than the skating itself!)

 

[4everchan]

Considering that AI right now relies on copyrighted material in order to generate art, that would probably make the issues worse

the few bits of AI music I heard was real garbage... mind you, I didn't really give it a try... but yeah... I wouldn't recommend it at all

 

[TontoK]

While quite a bit of it (including some of the classical, because being old does not by definition make it good) is not to my taste, I think we should remember that this is for young people to skate to, and the USFS did, I believe, say they were aiming to attract younger people? So modern tastes need to be at least considered. You may find it nondescript, but let's be fair, much of what you and I love the skaters themselves would decry as dreary and past it.


Even if the music is in the public domain, they do have to pay the performers unless they go for royalty-free...

Huh. Oh well.

The USA Gymnastics trials were on TV tonight, and I gave it a glance while my wife was watching. The women's floor exercise is set to music, and I don't recall that being an issue for them. I wonder what the gym feds do about this issue.

 

[4everchan]

Huh. Oh well.

The USA Gymnastics trials were on TV tonight, and I gave it a glance while my wife was watching. The women's floor exercise is set to music, and I don't recall that being an issue for them. I wonder what the gym feds do about this issue.

They pay the licenses