Is ice dancing too biased towards skaters of North American and Western European background? | Golden Skate

Is ice dancing too biased towards skaters of North American and Western European background?

Skating91

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Sep 16, 2023
And is the reason why there are so few Japanese and Korean ice dance teams but they dominate the other genres where they are free to choose their own music, theme, style, choreography, etc.

This is something I've never really thought about until I made a throwaway comment in another thread.

Look at this season the theme for RD.

"In April 2024, the ISU published the requirements for the 2024–2025 season.[15] Both junior and senior dance teams had to choose music from the social dances and styles of the 1950s, 1960s, and 1970s. The ISU gave the following examples of music from the above-mentioned decades, although teams were not limited to them: rock n' roll, the Jitterbug, the Twist, the Hustle, and disco."

Sure they say 1950's to 1970's, but no-one is skating to Sukiyaki it's all American or Western European music. The subtext is choose music that they were dancing to in North America and Western Europe during that period.

Don't interpret this as negativity in any way to these musical styles. Of course this music deserves to be a part of ice dancing, and all genres originating from these cultures.

A skater born in North America for example, a choreographer or coach who may have grew up immersed in this music and culture, understands the history, the subtleties, maybe has a better understanding of the lyrics than someone who does not speak English as a first language, is at a advantage to a choreographer or coach who grew up in 1970's China, Russia, Japan, Korea, etc.

The Koreans seem to only have one ice dance team, and both dancers had spent much of their life in Canada. So it seems some kind of western cultural background and influence really helps in ice dancing. The number one team in Japanese ice dance, one partner was born and grew up in the United States. Even in many other teams, it seems there are a lot of people of North American/British descent who have transferred to other federations for example the Spanish team, one dancer in the Lithuanian team (nothing wrong with that just an observation).

What would be wrong having 2000's K-Pop as the theme for RD next season? There's nothing wrong with having music from the 50's to 70's that originated mostly in the US, but why not rotate it around the world each season to represent if not all the world but align more with the culture of the important figure skating countries in the world like Japan and Korea, and China with 1.2 billion people as well.

It feels to me if the genres each year align with the same cultures and same styles, then it places skaters, coaches, choreographers, from those cultures at an advantage. It's like playing a board game with loaded dice.

It would also help spread cultural awareness. A Canadian skater or choreographer interpreting Japanese music would be quite interesting I think.
 
What would be an appropriate dance style and pattern for Kpop?

Ballroom dance and modern social dances originated in Europe and the Americas. The dance holds and steps are influenced by these off-ice dances. Unless your theme is folk dances as it was in 2010 I believe, I'm not sure how you'd integrate a variety of dances from others cultures. The movements of traditional Japanese dance are not very suited for dancing with a partner eg.

Now for the free, if skaters wanted to, they could dance to Kpop or something similar. If younvan skate to Beyonce, You can skate to Kpop. But maybe it's just not to their taste?

I believe ID in Japan has become more popular thanks to KanaDai and there are more new dance teams?
 
I agree that there is a frustrating amount of ignorance in the ice dance world about music and dance styles outside of a handful of countries and cultures, but part of why I know this is because whenever the ISU has tried to issue a theme that encourages expanding beyond the usual cultural comfort zones, we inevitably get programs that are weakly choreographed stereotype mush at best and horrifically racist at worst. Just look at “folk dances” in 2009-2010 and hip-hop/blues in 2016-17 and 2021-2022. There were many teams that took their research seriously and learned new dance styles to match the music, but there was also the infamous routine by Domnina/Shabalin which was rewarded with bronze. And that sent a message—a horrible one. No one was quite as blatantly racist in the blues/hip-hop seasons, but it still did not feel to me like most teams actually tried to do justice to hip-hop, and I suspect a Kpop theme would go similarly. Copying the moves from one or two popular music videos, almost everyone picking the same handful of artists from the last decade.

Another point I want to bring up is the “Latin” theme from a couple years ago. Now in the days of pattern dance the ISU used to have to get more specific about that, considering just saying “Latin dancing” is lumping so many different countries and traditions together. Request a rhumba, fine, merengue, fine, tango, fine. But when you just say “Latin” and the majority of skaters are not actually given incentives to be specific or to learn specific choreography, what you get is an absolute nightmare of a season where everyone is just caught somewhere between imitating a JLo video and not even trying for anything other than adding bongos to Imagine Dragons, with zero penalty. Because the judges are equally to blame for not actually enforcing music violations here, and there seems to be a very real fallacy among the committee choosing the rhythm dance that giving the skaters “more freedom” will result in more diversity of music and choreography. As we have seen in fact it gives a slurry of vague ideas much of which end up being the same flavor at the end of the day.

And that’s my rant lol. But basically, I think the problems are a lot more deeply rooted than just choices of theme or music styles.
 
The new direction the rhythm dances have been going into, with the wibbly-wobbly "themes" is the single most damaging thing that has happened to ID in a long time methinks. A lot of the programs are atrocious and gimmicky, there is no commitment to rhythm, steps and exploring a specific kind of dance and its variations. I think the only two RDs in the last Olympic season that really explored the theme of what that Rnb/Blues/Street dance could be were KanaDai and P/C. Last season's 80s they didn't event get the costumes and makeup right, half of the programs were MJ or Madonna...This season is slightly better I think, but still, so much disco, where they just shake their asses to the beat.
 
The new direction the rhythm dances have been going into, with the wibbly-wobbly "themes" is the single most damaging thing that has happened to ID in a long time methinks. A lot of the programs are atrocious and gimmicky, there is no commitment to rhythm, steps and exploring a specific kind of dance and its variations. I think the only two RDs in the last Olympic season that really explored the theme of what that Rnb/Blues/Street dance could be were KanaDai and P/C. Last season's 80s they didn't event get the costumes and makeup right, half of the programs were MJ or Madonna...This season is slightly better I think, but still, so much disco, where they just shake their asses to the beat.
And both last season and this were better suited to the younger competitors, in my eyes. I know generational attitudes are shifting and youth lasts longer these days, but when I was in my thirties my kids were in middle school. They would have died of embarrassment if their parents had danced like that at parties at home, let alone in public :palmf:.
 
The funny thing is that 1950s American music (rock and roll) really owes very little to Western Europe. Much more to African genesis, I would say. I hope someone dances to You Ain't Nothing But A Hound Dog by Big Mama Thornton (later covered by Elvis Presley).

(Spare us the Twist, though. ;) )
 
Sure they say 1950's to 1970's, but no-one is skating to Sukiyaki it's all American or Western European music. The subtext is choose music that they were dancing to in North America and Western Europe during that period.t
This is on skaters, choreographers, and the monopoly that is IAM to think somewhat outside the box. The ISU is not discouraging dancers from only skating to Western music choices.

Why must we "rotate around the world"? Skaters are permitted to pick music from any country of their choosing right now. We will never be able to make anything 100% inclusive, and sometimes in striving for that maximum level of inclusivity, creativity is stifled.
 
When the theme was Street Dancing Takahashi and partner did classical Japanese iirc and I don't remeber them being underscored. I honestly fully expect the ISU to pick something like 'dances around the world' theme in keeping with the way they do things in the past 3 years.
 
Not the hulu, not Evan but Greg Zuerlein - but there is some lively hip action at the end of this program from Madison that shows me she would excel at it
 
I think that isn’t preference. An example k -pop or J-pop even pop music haven’t a standard rhythm pattern neither a standard musical measure in tempo , bpm and rhythm and can’t be translated into a OSP. Waltz,Polka and others . By example a waltz is 3/4 time or a polka even existing depending if is Polish polka or Finnish polka have a standard tempo and a pattern very similar and can be translated into OSP (original set pattern)
 
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