2009 World Figure Skating Championships

[zephyrskates]

For once I envy the canucks. wonder if i can move to buffalo for the skating season, and i can get CBC coverage.

 

[R.D.]

Something just occurred to me, and I posted it on the MKF.

I think one of the issues is that many of the events take place at odd hours in the "TV time zone" (EST). If you look at the broadcast times, most events are taking place in the early evening (when affiliates have local news) and late night/early morning (when late local news and late night shows are on). I'm sure NBC could have a say to try to shift the times of the events around to better fit a network TV schedule (like they did for the Olympics in swimming) but I doubt they give this event that much importance.

 

[Tonichelle]

You guys will get plenty of coverage, and there's nothing to fret about.

Trust me, I'm not losing sleep over the coverage.

 

[sillylionlove]

I am so happy that it's going to be on Oxygen since I do have that channel. I am happy to see that some of it will be live...although that's easy to do since it's in the US this year.

 

[Blades of Passion]

Excuse me, but where are the Finnish ladies on that list? Do you feel the four Americans (with Kimmie Meissner excluded?) have all done better?

Yes. If you compare what Nagasu, Zhang, Flatt, and Wagner have accomplished when at their best, it eclipses the Fins. I'm not sure if their best can be seen as better than Kimmie's best (2006 Worlds), but I'd at least put them on equal footing and additionally say that I think they are ALL more musical than Kimmie and also technically stronger than Kimmie has been the past 2 years (and it's highly doubtful that Kimmie will ever reach the peak she achieved in 2006, but, I guess we'll have to wait and see to be sure...).

 

[Buttercup]

Yes. If you compare what Nagasu, Zhang, Flatt, and Wagner have accomplished when at their best, it eclipses the Fins.

I must respectfully disagree. At the very least, I would argue that in international competition, Wagner has not proven herself superior to Laura Lepistö, who was the 2008 European bronze medalist, finished 8th at her first Worlds, and has a higher personal best. Wagner did do a bit better than Lepistö in her Grand Prix events last year, but results-wise, I think she doesn't even match up that well with Korpi and Pöykiö. The Finnish ladies also have a better record in major events than she does (Euros/4CC and Worlds).

You can certainly make a case for Zhang based on her Grand Prix accomplishments last year. Nagasu and Flatt haven't done much of anything in seniors so far so I don't think it's right to rate them yet. Junior success doesn't necessarily translate into senior results.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Oxygen is owned by Oprah, an extemely powerful woman capable of electing a President. I do not think it is an affiliate of NBC. I think it was arranged through negotiations.

 

[chuckm]

I must respectfully disagree. At the very least, I would argue that in international competition, Wagner has not proven herself superior to Laura Lepistö, who was the 2008 European bronze medalist, finished 8th at her first Worlds, and has a higher personal best. Wagner did do a bit better than Lepistö in her Grand Prix events last year, but results-wise, I think she doesn't even match up that well with Korpi and Pöykiö. The Finnish ladies also have a better record in major events than she does (Euros/4CC and Worlds).

You can certainly make a case for Zhang based on her Grand Prix accomplishments last year. Nagasu and Flatt haven't done much of anything in seniors so far so I don't think it's right to rate them yet. Junior success doesn't necessarily translate into senior results.

Zhang and Flatt are #7 and #8 on the 2007-2008 SB list, and Nagasu is #12. Lepisto is #10, Korpi is #15, Vahamaa is #34. Poykio is not even on the list because she didn't skate at any GP or ISU Championship event last season.
Flatt, Zhang and Nagasu all beat Jenni Vahamaa at JW (Nagasu and Zhang for the second time) and Flatt and Nagasu beat her at the JGPF. Wagner beat Vahamaa at JW 2007.

All the Finnish ladies are lovely skaters, but Lepisto has limited triples (no lutz or flip) and Korpi and Vahamaa are inconsistent jumpers. At Worlds, Lepisto was 21st in the SP and 7th in the FS, while Korpi was 4th in the SP but 17th in the FS.

Usually, the Finnish ladies shine at Finlandia, but this year they all struggled, and Akiko Suzuki (a skater who's never competed at anything other than an International "B" as yet) won by more than 16 points. In the FS, Lepisto landed just 3 triples, and Poykio and Vahamaa, each 4.

 

[Buttercup]

Zhang and Flatt are #7 and #8 on the 2007-2008 SB list, and Nagasu is #12. Lepisto is #10, Korpi is #15, Vahamaa is #34. Poykio is not even on the list because she didn't skate at any GP or ISU Championship event last season.
Flatt, Zhang and Nagasu all beat Jenni Vahamaa at JW (Nagasu and Zhang for the second time) and Flatt and Nagasu beat her at the JGPF. Wagner beat Vahamaa at JW 2007.

All the Finnish ladies are lovely skaters, but Lepisto has limited triples (no lutz or flip) and Korpi and Vahamaa are inconsistent jumpers. At Worlds, Lepisto was 21st in the SP and 7th in the FS, while Korpi was 4th in the SP but 17th in the FS.

My point was that of the four American ladies mentioned, one has had impressive results in her first senior season (Zhang), two have yet to skate as seniors in international competition (Flatt, Nagasu), and one had results at 4CC and Worlds last year that were not that impressive, and has a lower PB than the top three Finnish ladies (Wagner). Jenni Vahamaa was not mentioned in my post because I don't think one can argue that she is currently close to being a top ten skater in seniors. I don't think there's a contradiction between any of that and your post.

I know there's a tendency sometimes to become very excited about skaters coming up from juniors, but I really feel it's better to wait until they prove themselves as seniors. If that's what happens with the US ladies, more power to them.

 

[chuckm]

Keep in mind that Kimmie Meissner, with all her jump problems, beat both Lepisto and Korpi at Worlds. And Nagasu, Flatt and Zhang all beat Meissner at Nationals 2008. Wagner, IMO, is not quite in the same category as the other three, although I saw her performances at Liberty and she has improved greatly since her coaching change.

All four US ladies have lutz and flip and are consistent with them, although Zhang and Wagner have been dinged for flutzing, Flatt and Nagasu only occasionally. Nagasu, Zhang and Flatt have all had their 3/3s ratified in performance, and they are doing them in combination with lutz or flip, not 3T/3T.

 

[museksk8r]

Oxygen is owned by Oprah, an extemely powerful woman capable of electing a President. I do not think it is an affiliate of NBC. I think it was arranged through negotiations.

I don't know if all of your response was sarcastic or not, but the truth is that The Oxygen Network is owned by NBC Universal.

 

[Buttercup]

Keep in mind that Kimmie Meissner, with all her jump problems, beat both Lepisto and Korpi at Worlds. And Nagasu, Flatt and Zhang all beat Meissner at Nationals 2008. Wagner, IMO, is not quite in the same category as the other three, although I saw her performances at Liberty and she has improved greatly since her coaching change.

Well, Lepisto skated better at Euros than at Worlds, and didn't Meissner do better at Worlds than at Nats? I'd really rather compare the skaters within the same competition if possible, or if not then under similar conditions. The good news, of course, is that the new season is underway, so we'll be able to see all of them soon enough.

 

[chuckm]

Well, Lepisto skated better at Euros than at Worlds, and didn't Meissner do better at Worlds than at Nats? I'd really rather compare the skaters within the same competition if possible, or if not then under similar conditions. The good news, of course, is that the new season is underway, so we'll be able to see all of them soon enough.

You have to look at Euros in context as well. At Euros, there were no Japanese, Korean, Canadian and US skaters. Those missing skaters accounted for 5 of the top places at Worlds. Lepisto was 3rd at Euros, and Korpi 5th, behind Kostner and Meier. Add 5 to Lepisto and Korpi's Euro placements and you come close to their 8th and 9th places at Worlds.

 

[Tonichelle]

Oxygen is owned by Oprah, an extemely powerful woman capable of electing a President. I do not think it is an affiliate of NBC. I think it was arranged through negotiations.

While the "O" network is Oprah's baby, it is part of the NBC Universal family.

 

[Buttercup]

Just to clarify, my previous post referred to Lepisto's scores at Euros vs. Worlds, not her placement. FWIW, Wagner's 8th-place score from 4CC would have had her in 7th at Euros, behind Valentina Marchei. She had a lower score at Worlds.

 

[chuckm]

Just to clarify, my previous post referred to Lepisto's scores at Euros vs. Worlds, not her placement. FWIW, Wagner's 8th-place score from 4CC would have had her in 7th at Euros, behind Valentina Marchei. She had a lower score at Worlds.

Flatt's JW score (with one less spin in the FS) would have won Euros (Flatt scored 61.74 TES vs. Kostner's 54.99 and Meier's 57.96)---but it's useless to compare scores across competitions.

 

[Blades of Passion]

I must respectfully disagree. At the very least, I would argue that in international competition, Wagner has not proven herself superior to Laura Lepistö, who was the 2008 European bronze medalist, finished 8th at her first Worlds, and has a higher personal best. Wagner did do a bit better than Lepistö in her Grand Prix events last year, but results-wise, I think she doesn't even match up that well with Korpi and Pöykiö. The Finnish ladies also have a better record in major events than she does (Euros/4CC and Worlds).

Lepisto's personal best shouldn't be higher than Wagner's, not in the least. Wagner's performance at Nationals last year is much better than any competition from Lepisto. Wagner's performance at 4 Continents should have also been marked as higher than anything I've seen from Lepisto as well, but she was the victim of terrible CoP judging.

 

[museksk8r]

Lepisto's personal best shouldn't be higher than Wagner's, not in the least. Wagner's performance at Nationals last year is much better than any competition from Lepisto. Wagner's performance at 4 Continents should have also been marked as higher than anything I've seen from Lepisto as well, but she was the victim of terrible CoP judging.

No, at 4CC and at Worlds, Wagner was finally judged by an unbiased panel that did not hand out overinflated marks. The Nationals judges did not mark her down for some of her wrong edge entries and under-rotated jumps.

 

[all that]

post deleted.

 

[Mathman]

Hey, what happened to All That's post?

I was just about to reply, "I guess Oprah needed the money (the 925 million dollars she got when she sold Oxygen to NBC last year. )