- Joined
- Apr 3, 2009
I think this one is going to be difficult to come back from.
A public scolding from USFS is pretty major.
Statement from USFS regarding Dave Lease
- Thread starter moonvine
- Start date
A public scolding from USFS is pretty major.
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
I can't imagine he comes back. I have an Instagram and X account, which I use solely as a source for athletics coverage and aging/sports/fitness/nutrition. I'm never post/reply - these are just news feeds for me.
The Instagram post from USFSA has been liked, commented on, or shared as a story by Ilia Malinin, Madison Chock, Danny O'Shea, Misha Mitrofanov, Meagan D, Jackie Wong, Anthony Ponomarenko, SCOB, On Ice Perspectives...the list goes on and on. And these are just the ones highlighted for me because I follow them.
I've heard the skating community is close knit. They've closed ranks, and I doubt he'll be able to book guests now.
- Joined
- May 15, 2024
nah, he will be back, not sure if before Worlds, I've seen far worse cases where the accounts were back
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
Well, he might be back, but without the guests, is there really a point? And I don't think he'll get them. And I regret it, because we didn't get those perspectives in long form very often.
I'm not interested in him and the opera singer bitching about costumes for an hour.
Apart from the sheer vileness and heartlessness of the comments, I do not even understand what he is trying to say - the airplane tragedy and the question of whether these were good skaters or not are entirely unrelated IMO and it feels like he is dragging one of them into the other for an argument I do not understand. It seems...pointless at best.
- Joined
- Apr 23, 2018
My last comment on the whole thing (unless it isn't, something comes up, but really there are more interesting things in skating today for me)
Whether or not we each feel the reaction and outcry is over the top or not, and whether or not we regret that the good things he did are now going to cease or be that much harder to get done... he had industry friends but he created a lot of unnecessary animosity so yes, people in and outside the sport were more than ready to turn on him. And that is also on him for attacking, mocking and belittling for clicks and views. He is not the only one (look at Weir) but it's still on him.
Whether or not we each feel the reaction and outcry is over the top or not, and whether or not we regret that the good things he did are now going to cease or be that much harder to get done... he had industry friends but he created a lot of unnecessary animosity so yes, people in and outside the sport were more than ready to turn on him. And that is also on him for attacking, mocking and belittling for clicks and views. He is not the only one (look at Weir) but it's still on him.
- Joined
- Jun 21, 2003
Cabadianskaterguy has kindly supplied the relevant quote (post 139 above).
"What makes me uncomfortable is, not everyone who's on that plane was that talented at skating, right? Like, I don't think it was worth, like, the gamble of giving up your life and your education and everything for skating. Like that's what hit me when I was doing the... writing tributes to people. Like, these people died - and yes they were at a development camp which they loved... but they were also being taken advantage of, because we all knew they weren't going to make it in skating, right? Like, and it seemed like their families were hook line and sinker, you know involved."
What is an emotionally crushed parent to take away from these words except, If you hadn't been so foolish as to push your talentless son or daughter into figure skating, that child would be alive today.
- Joined
- Jan 25, 2013
Sorry Tonto it wasn't directed at you! I was throwing shade, and rolling my eyes, at Dave's hypocrisy.
Dave questioned if these late skaters were worthy enough to attend a USFS development camp (after proving themselves in competitions, mind you), due to them apparently being "not that talented" and unlikely to "make it in skating".
Meanwhile, even with his comparatively inferior skating ability, and being a casual adult skater — who will never possess an iota of the talent as the skaters he's criticized... he still deemed himself worthy enough to take development/coaching lessons from an Olympic medalist.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Jan 28, 2013
Thanks for the explanation. I thought that didn't sound like you - I mean my interpretation was unlike our previous interactions.
I get what you were saying now.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2017
I have TSL Patreon. I always enjoyed Jenny insight and knowledge. I tolerated Dave, who was often unkind, making fun of me and demeaning my social media posts by adding a context that wasn't there. The TSL patreon channel became so incredibly toxic to the point I tended not to tune in, stopped watching all together but didnt cancel because I was looking forward to hearing what Jenny had to say about worlds. Am I suprised Dave said this no, not at all. He has been talking and saying horrible things for years but because he knew skaters and coaches and had insight info on skating he got away with it. Am I suprised at what he said, not really because thats par for the course of how nasty and vitriol he would talk about anyone he did not like in his Patreon bubble. For years he has critized the USFSA, belittled them as an organization. He is trying to spin this and walk it back but there no coming back from this. Dave is the Author of his own demise.
Last edited:
You did not read my post correctly, whatsoever. In my post I was not referring to Dave Lease, I was referring to a member right here in this forum who was defending Dave Lease and telling USFS to take a hike, so to speak. "Taking up" for someone is the same as defending them or speaking up to support a person. My comment was:
Someone might take up for Lease - so? I think some guy already did in this thread. Should he be ganged up on for expressing his opinion? No. It's called free speech. And yes, we really do have it.
Here is the post the member made and, no, I do not think the member should be ganged up on for having a different opinion than nearly everyone here:
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2004
His mouth worked faster than his brain. I am not giving him a pass at all...but if you were to take his content and rephrase it, it becomes an opinion (I guess) about coaches ripping off families, which he is entitled to. Right or wrong. But it did not come out like that. I am hoping there are no coaches out there who do a Prof. Harold Hill of telling parents their children have the signs of great music ability. When they play the trumpet like I did.....
- Joined
- Dec 4, 2004
ITA. Who amoung you has never said something cruel or hurtful and been sad about it when it was pointed out to you what you said and the way you said it? You may throw the first stone. I certainly have said things to both wives I have regretted and I have told my current wife to point out things I say that are hurtful or at least sound that way in real time so I can reflect and apologize or re-phrase. I am getting better at not doing that and waiting before I speak. I hope he does that too. A few years ago now, I was doing some research on one of skating saddest events of cheating and I found his youtubes, IIRC. He knew a heck of a lot more about the circumstances than I did and wasnt afraid to comment on them. His position can be used for good or evil, accidental or not.
- Joined
- Dec 20, 2019
Is heartless and offensive comment and haven’t empathy toward the victims and their loves ones.
Dave forgot or ignored the basic: everybody have dreams and projects in our life and the attempt and fall , perseverance and step by step improvement take time and efforts will be very well rewarded.
If he thinks that is “a waste of money..” and “no talent” assuming is Dave’s personal opinion, is pathetic his not empathy neither lack of comprehension from somebody that have a certain technical knowledge and know the environment in the ice rink and the efforts that every skaters does for improve day after day.
I liked the interviews and sometimes there were interesting opinions, so I watched some of the TSL videos. There were videos I didn't finish, or I skipped many parts. Too much rambling, too much gossip, too many mean words disguised as "opinions". I liked the interviews with skaters and choreographers, there aren't many platforms left where you have longer interviews with them. And highlighting abuse was good, though people are saying now that he didn't care about the victims of abuse, he just wanted views. If so, he's even worse than I thought.
I have mixed feelings about TSL. Sometimes I appreciated their material and at other times they were annoying or worse. But talking like this about these children is the worst. If he wanted a discussion about some coaches possibly telling parents that untalented children had talent, just to take their money, then he could have done that in a separate video at a different time. He should have left the victims of this tragedy out of this.
And yes, we've all said stupid or hurtful things because we didn't know better. However, Lease has been saying awful things for a long time and scoffing at anyone saying that this isn't criticism, but malicious. This isn't a person who is usually nice with valid criticism nicely worded with good arguments, this is someone who regularly said terrible things and even when people pointed this out, he often didn't care. There is a difference between someone saying something bad, learning from it and trying to do better next time, and someone who seems to be doing that for sports.
Perhaps part of the problem are also people like me with the mixed feelings about people like Lease. I think I once even sent TSL a message or probably wrote it in a YouTube comments section: "Sometimes you're so annoying, but right now: thank you for this great interview." Can't remember my exact words, but perhaps getting away with awful comments too often, because people like me don't watch that part of his content and at the same time are happy to listen to interviews and balance our mixed feelings with: but he interviewed this amazing choreographer/Michelle Kwan/ Frank Caroll/other amazing skater or coach and hey, he helps highlights abuse.
This has also made me think about myself, my part in society. Without wanting to and without meaning to, somehow perhaps we enable this kind of behaviour too. I'm not sure. I still have to start my day, clear my mind. Not saying that Lease is innocent then. Of course Lease is responsible for his own actions.
I have mixed feelings about TSL. Sometimes I appreciated their material and at other times they were annoying or worse. But talking like this about these children is the worst. If he wanted a discussion about some coaches possibly telling parents that untalented children had talent, just to take their money, then he could have done that in a separate video at a different time. He should have left the victims of this tragedy out of this.
And yes, we've all said stupid or hurtful things because we didn't know better. However, Lease has been saying awful things for a long time and scoffing at anyone saying that this isn't criticism, but malicious. This isn't a person who is usually nice with valid criticism nicely worded with good arguments, this is someone who regularly said terrible things and even when people pointed this out, he often didn't care. There is a difference between someone saying something bad, learning from it and trying to do better next time, and someone who seems to be doing that for sports.
Perhaps part of the problem are also people like me with the mixed feelings about people like Lease. I think I once even sent TSL a message or probably wrote it in a YouTube comments section: "Sometimes you're so annoying, but right now: thank you for this great interview." Can't remember my exact words, but perhaps getting away with awful comments too often, because people like me don't watch that part of his content and at the same time are happy to listen to interviews and balance our mixed feelings with: but he interviewed this amazing choreographer/Michelle Kwan/ Frank Caroll/other amazing skater or coach and hey, he helps highlights abuse.
This has also made me think about myself, my part in society. Without wanting to and without meaning to, somehow perhaps we enable this kind of behaviour too. I'm not sure. I still have to start my day, clear my mind. Not saying that Lease is innocent then. Of course Lease is responsible for his own actions.
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
While Lease worked very hard to keep TSL going, and that's commendable, he did not create that space by himself. Sadly, he also had many opportunities to rise above his personal character flaws, which is, of course, hard to do. So far, he has failed, albeit not irreparably, but he has hurt a lot of people with his snarky comments, gossipy takes, and putdowns.
Since I believe Jenny Kirk still holds a stake in TSL, hopefully she would facilitate making some of the archival, historical content (particularly the best interviews on the platform, including the Barba/ Pellerito interview footage) accessibe for figure skating fans.
For those who may be unaware, Allison Manley's manleywoman podcast, which predates and inspired the creation of TSL, is available on her redesigned website. Allison pioneered the podcast interview in figure skating, starting in 2007. Her mission was to talk with past skating greats and recently retired skaters, including those who remained active as coaches and choreographers. She compiled a fascinating, entertaining, and informative archive.
After her first episode with Kurt Browning, the list of interviewees spans the gamut from Oleg Vasiliev; Susie Wynne; Philip Mills; David Santee; Frank Carroll; John Nicks; Richard Dwyer; Ron Ludington; Chris Howarth; Jozef Sabovcik; Charlie Tickner; Tai Babilonia; Debi Thomas; Slavka Kohout; Jennifer Kirk; Tom Dickson (choreographer & former skater -- fascinating & insightful); Rory Flack; Ryan Jahnke; Barbara Ann Scott; JoJo Starbuck; Yuka Sato; Randy Gardner; Timothy Goebel; Lucinda Ruh; Frances Dafoe; Carol Heiss Jenkins; Caryn Kadavy; Rohene Ward; John Misha Petkevich; Donald Jackson; Dick Button (an interview Manley had tried to obtain for years); Sjoukje Dijkstra; to Ryan Bradley; et al!!! Manley's last four interviews in 2014 were with Brian Orser; Renee Roca; Tamara Moskvina; and former U.S. men's skater, Parker Pennington.
Manley then took an extended break. She launched her new website in 2021 and added a number of new interviews, including with Elizabeth Manley; and Debbi Wilkes. The final interview posted in 2022 was with Jackie Wong. Among the earlier interviews was a sit-down with P.J. Kwong, who was inspired by Allison Manley to start her own podcast. Kwong's interview archive, some of which are on YT, are well worth listening to and learning from. I will include a link below to Manley's website and to Kwong's YT conversation with skating historian and creator of the Skateguard Blog, Ryan Stevens.
I recall that when Kirk and Lease started The Skating Lesson in 2012, they mentioned having gained inspiration from Allison Manley's podcast, yet typically the mention was framed in a negative way by directing a putdown at Manley's interviewing style.
Additional resources are the recent, Future of Figure Skating Podcast; Anything GOES; The Blades of Our Lives; Polina Edmund's BLEAV podcast, renamed The Iron Butterfly; Ashley/Adam's The Runthrough; The Ice Lab podcast on Spotify & Apple by Trennt Michaud & Michael Marinaro (27 episodes from 2021 - 2022). Plus, many other event review and interview shows, including This Week in Skating (TWIS).
The Manleywoman SkateCast - figure skating interviews : The Manleywoman SkateCast
The first ice skating podcast ... podcasting since 2007! Interviews with famous and influential people in the sport of figure skating.
manleywoman.com
- YouTube
Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.
www.youtube.com
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 1, 2020
Do you mean in figure skating? What specific examples are you thinking of?
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2014
I'll say my words here. Good effing riddance to David Lease. I watched some stuff from The Skating Lesson before. But they slowly started getting more and more intolerable as time went on and went after skaters unfairly multiple times. He's more of like someone that didn't grow up from high school in terms of gossip. While I'm not glad this is how he finally has a large amount of people criticizing him on his behavior happened, it's better late than never. And you can't run from bad behavior forever.
Also, I did cheerleading all of high school and all of college. I started when I was 14. I knew there was no way I would become good enough to be on a Level 5/6 Senior All-Star team that would make it to the World Championships. I did it because I loved doing it and wanted to try it. I would have go to competitions that were like 1-4 hours away driving distance and sometimes staying overnight. Driving is a lot riskier than flying on a plane. How was one to know that the first commercial airline crash in the USA in 15 years would happen?
I was never taken advantage of doing something I loved. My parents encouraged me to do what I loved. There are some people here that are adult skaters in terms of doing adult competitions, not going to the Olympics. But they still do skating because they love it. Not all the skaters in national championships are going to go to the World stages, but they still love skating and doing what they do. And being invited to such a camp is an honor for them. It's worth it for them to be a part of that camp. To be recognized enough for the talent they do have. To have someone see it in them is incredible. It probably is a huge honor for them. I know when I was doing beginning jazz technique in college, one of my classmates, who was a dance major said she loved my hitch kick, and that made me so happy.
Him being called out by a nation's skating governing body is a big deal. This is going to be a permanent stain on his credibility. No way he can show his face at Worlds. Why should he be allowed to when he's criticizing stuff he shouldn't open his mouth about. It's like the saying goes (Paraphrasing here): "You know someone's character when they treat the janitor with the same respect as a CEO."
- Joined
- Feb 13, 2018
Beautifully stated. Thank you for sharing your thoughts.
- Joined
- Jul 13, 2014
I appreciate it.
