Maia And Alex Shibutani announce return to competitive skating

[TontoK]

That's quite true. You don't have to outstate the legends of the past, all you have to do is ro beat the teams that are on the ice right here, right now.

It's one of the pitfalls of being a longtime fan.

We all have favorite performers and programs from years past, and often it's difficult to set aside those preferences to appreciate what is on offer right here, right now.

And we have to be honest about how sport evolves. John Curry and Toller Cranston will always have places of honor in my rewatch pile, but I also have to acknowledge they'd be lucky for their groundbreaking exploits in the 70s to make the free skate at a WC today. It doesn't mean that we forget the past, simply that we live in the present. Sport, like life, moves on.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

But to me, pairs is supposed to be about one fancy athletic trick after another, so I don't really mind.

Ah no! Then you misunderstand pairs. At its very best, the pairs discipline is about "two skating as one," to quote how the great TaiBabilonia/Randy Gardner were often described during and after their pairs skating career. In fact, this phrase is the inspiration for the title of their fabulous over-sized skating memoir with Martha Lowder Kimball, Forever Two As One (2002).

Of course, pairs includes difficult elements, but the best teams display unison, emotional connection, and the ability to tell a story through music, movement, expression, and high-level athletic skill. Pairs is perhaps the riskiest, hardest to fully master, and yet least respected discipline in figure skating.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I really want two new teams to go to Milan in 2026 not two teams that made the Olympic team way back in 2014 and have been to multiple Winter Olympic games especially for a country that has the depth that the US has right now in Ice Dance.

Blame U.S. figure skating and the ISU for killing pro skating. Had they helped pro skating continue to expand and to flourish, eligible skating would have vastly benefited, with perhaps fewer top stars desiring to return for the Olympics.

At the very least, there would be the opportunity to continue competing and growing for many skaters who crave such pursuits. The biggest problem is that figure skating is still largely an elitist, niche, vastly misunderstood sport which lacks skilled, visionary leadership. Sadly, the sport has not evolved its rules and competitive structure to meet 21st-century depth and demands for fulfilling athlete desires and development, much less audience needs.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I also have to acknowledge they'd be lucky for their groundbreaking exploits in the 70s to make the free skate at a WC today.

Wow! What a statement. If either Cranston or Curry were born and developed within the current skating era, they would either be ice dancers or else would possess the jumping skills and artistry to beat most of the men's field or be top competitors.

Would that some of today's current skaters were taught more about these guys' amazing creativity and how much they revolutionized men's skating back-in-the-day! I would also include John Misha Petkevich, Robin Cousins, Robert Wagonhoffer, and before them, Dick Button, Ronnie Robertson, Donald Jackson, and the brothers, David and Hayes Jenkins.

Without all of the amazing skaters who came before, the way forward would not have been paved for Scott Hamilton, Paul Wylie, Brian Boitano, Brian Orser, Kurt Browning, Yevgeny Plushenko, Alexei Yagudin, Sasha Fedeev, Patrick Chan, Daisuke Takahashi, Jeremy Abbott, Adam Rippon, Denis Ten, Jeff Buttle, Stephane Lambiel, Alexei Urmanov, Johnny Weir ----- who all served as the bridge to the current generation that roughly began with Hanyu, albeit there is overlap as DTen was a contemporary of Hanyu (plus shout-out to MKolyada who was so exquisite at his best). Leading on to Jason Brown, Shoma Uno, Nathan Chen, and now Yuma, Jun Hwan, KevinA, AdamSHF, DenissV, MikhailSha, Ilia, et al. The men's field is the most exciting today because these guys were freed to express themselves fully on the ice as a result of the burdens previous generations bravely faced and overcame.

Cranston and Curry are giants among the earlier generations of male figure skaters. It is counterproductive to try and compare the technical skills and official requirements of an earlier era to what is being done technically by today's athletes. If you want to compare skating skills, creativity, and artistic abilities, Cranston and Curry win by a country mile.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

I also feel bad for other ice dance teams that have been working a long time to get to thier first Olympic Games, ie, Green and Parsons.

It is what it is. Figure skating can be a cutthroat, stab-in-the-back sport. There has never been anything fair or scandal-free about it. A whole book can be written about scandals in fs, beginning with the very first official late 1800s competition, where I believe there were only two or three male competitors, and the judging results were challenged.

Green/ Parsons had gathered tremendous respect and momentum with their former coaches and modern dance aesthetic, until they switched at the advice of USfigsk to then newly established MIDA. G/P have faced injury, setbacks, and so-so programs ever since. While they came back this season with better programs post Michael's surgery and recovery, judges have not rewarded them as well as they might deserve. G/P apparently have lost too much momentum. Unless they can bring something extra that sets them apart next season, I can't see them moving up the international ranks, if they even make the U.S. team for Worlds and Olympics with Car/Pon seemingly well-favored and the Shibs returning. Kolesnik does not have U.S. citizenship yet. I believe ChristinaC will receive her citizenship sometime this year, finally!

 

[Skater Boy]

I am curious since the Shibutani's won't have any points they will get bad draws throughout the season. I wonder if they will do a lot of challengers? I am curious will they be ready. I don't think they expect to beat Chock and BAtes. But they need to take command of no. 2 in US ahead of CP o r tthey will find it a rough ride. The battle for Olympiic silver and bronze is going be a blood bath. second to 10th is like roll the dice. Piper and Paul the team that shows flashes of brilliance and creeping up then thrown off a cliff. I hope this team wins a medal but history suggests this is a team the judges may dump. Fear and Gibson are a fun and flamboyant tteam but if the judges look at their skill/tech this team is vulnerable. The Italians will have the benefit of home country advantage. But they are great technician but not particular emotionally impactful. The best technicians probably. CP this team honestly good but looks so vulnerable technicallly and artistically. Not in the USA LaLa, France No. 1 and Guillaume and Laurence look ready to pass I am thinking Russia will move ahead of this team too. And there is a very good chance the Shibutani's will be ahead. Icce dance will be the most interesting to watch for the battles.

 

[TontoK]

Wow! What a statement. If either Cranston or Curry were born and developed within the current skating era, they would either be ice dancers or else would possess the jumping skills and artistry to beat most of the men's field or be top competitors.

Really? Clipping one phrase, not even the complete sentence, from a post to create a controversy?

I 100% stand by my statement, bugged eyes or not.

I love both Curry and Cranston, so you don't have to convince me or their merits. We can speculate about possibilities if they had trained for today's competitions. But they didn't develop during the current era. They developed 50 years ago. Their programs that they skated then... and to be clear, I consider those iconic hall of fame programs... would not be competitive today. They just wouldn't, and I don't even think it's rational to think otherwise. It certainly doesn't make them "lesser" because their 70's era programs and content wouldn't outscore today's crop of men.

While I believe many of their best qualities have been lacking in the past 50 years and I rewatch those old videos with fondness, I can also appreciate what I've seen since. For better or for worse, the sport has evolved. And that was my point.

 

[Rackon]

It is what it is. Figure skating can be a cutthroat, stab-in-the-back sport. There has never been anything fair or scandal-free about it. A whole book can be written about scandals in fs, beginning with the very first official late 1800s competition, where I believe there were only two or three male competitors, and the judging results were challenged.

Green/ Parsons had gathered tremendous respect and momentum with their former coaches and modern dance aesthetic, until they switched at the advice of USfigsk to then newly established MIDA. G/P have faced injury, setbacks, and so-so programs ever since. While they came back this season with better programs post Michael's surgery and recovery, judges have not rewarded them as well as they might deserve. G/P apparently have lost too much momentum. Unless they can bring something extra that sets them apart next season, I can't see them moving up the international ranks, if they even make the U.S. team for Worlds and Olympics with Car/Pon seemingly well-favored and the Shibs returning. Kolesnik does not have U.S. citizenship yet. I believe ChristinaC will receive her citizenship sometime this year, finally!

Kolesnik is on track to receive citizenship this year, if he hasn’t already.

 

[Spiralgraph]

Kolesnik is on track to receive citizenship this year, if he hasn’t already.

I hope he and Christina Carreira both get their citizenship as soon as they can, but if I were in their shoes I wouldn't breathe a sigh of relief until I had my citizenship papers in my hands ,literally.

 

[Mathman]

Ah no! Then you misunderstand pairs. At its very best, the pairs discipline is about "two skating as one,"...

To me, there was a sea change between the reigns of Belousova & Protopopov and of Irina Rodnina and her partners. Rodina was the queen non pareil of high-flying circus tricks. She won 10 world championships and three Olympic gold medals. Tai and Randy, those masters of two-skating-as-one never beat Rodnina and Zaitsev and won their 1979 world championship only because Rodnina took the year off to have a baby.

I don't want to make too much of this, though. Gordeeva and Grinkov achieved an admirable balance a decade later.

The IJS doesn't help. A pairs team gets goo-gobs of points for a throw triple Axel or a quad twist. A somewhat lesser number of points for exceptional unison, emotional connectional between the partners and with the audience, etc.

 

[Mathman]

For better or for worse, the sport has evolved.

The sport has changed. I don't really have an opinion on the "better or worse" part. Audiences will vote with their feet and their purses.

It is certainly safe to say that if John Curry were magiclly transported to the present day with his 1970s skill set he would lose to Ilia Malinin under the current scoring conventions. If Malinin went back in time and did six quads in competition against Curry's Don Quixote program at the 1976 Olympics -- people would be flabbergasted, but "Is it figure skating?"

 

[TontoK]

The sport has changed. I don't really have an opinion on the "better or worse" part. Audiences will vote with their feet and their purses.

It is certainly safe to say that if John Curry were magiclly transported to the present day with his 1970s skill set he would lose to Ilia Malinin under the current scoring conventions. If Malinin went back in time and did six quads in competition against Curry's Don Quixote program at the 1976 Olympics -- people would be flabbergasted, but "Is it figure skating?"

All hypothetical, of course, but if they were magically switched to each other's eras, neither John Curry nor Ilia Malinin would skate the way they did/do. They'd be training and performing in a way to win where/when they landed. I think they'd both probably be pretty successful.

 

[Mathman]

All hypothetical, of course, but if they were magically switched to each other's eras, neither John Curry nor Ilia Malinin would skate the way they did/do. They'd be training and performing in a way to win where/when they landed. I think they'd both probably be pretty successful.

In the case of Curry, it's not even hypothetical. He was brilliant as a ballet-on-ice guy, but his advisors told him that he would have to butch up his act if he ever wanted to win any international competitions. He changed coaches (to king-maker Carlo Fassi) and at the 1976 Olympics he excelled by doing a triple toe loop AND a triple Salchow AND a triple loop!

The judges liked it. Seven of the nine judges put Curry first, the holdouts being the Canadian judge who went with Toller Cranston and the Soviet judge who put Vladimir Kovalev first. Imagine that.

 

[4everchan]

I don't know how much of an ice dance fan I am, but I don't like them in ice dance because they just look so artificial and 'pastede on yay' and the dancers never ever look comfortable and natural doing them. Maybe because it's not a move that benefits from the need to be so much in synch? They are fine and can be beautiful in singles.

On the other hand, I want to fishslap whoever thought up such a silly name.

their name in French is perfect.
They are called "voltes"

So meh... I actually am the opposite... I don't like them in singles. What's the point of turning on one blade and looking not so great at it... oh yeah needed for level 4

but in dance, they are super nice when done in perfect synch. Also, you have to see them in person : have you ?

The good teams cover a lot of ice doing them. It's very nice and impressive. On camera, they often just look static.

 

[4everchan]

I also feel bad for other ice dance teams that have been working a long time to get to thier first Olympic Games, ie, Green and Parsons.

I don't feel sorry really. Green and Parsons were never guaranteed a spot to the Olympics. They didn't qualify for Montreal's worlds. They barely qualified for Boston's worlds... they could be passed by a number of teams that are not the Shibs... Shibs are not exactly guaranteed that third spot. As a matter of fact, even CP are not guaranteed they will be USA's number 2. The ice dance field in the USA is deep and ever changing.

The truth is that in a sportive career, some will go to the Olympics, very few will, most will not. What skaters need to do is to control what they can control and come up with their best performances so they earn their own tickets. The rest is not up to them. It has to do with judging, with how well their competitors do.. etc... and even luck.

There are skaters who just never make it to the Olympics... Some have been as high as 5th in the world but never managed to qualify for the Olympics... for instance because their country didn't have more than one spot... or injuries plagued them... or whatever reason. It is what it is and though I will admit to some sympathy when athletes miss out their qualification, sometimes by hundreds of points or seconds, but not when others qualified because they were simply better.

Again, time will tell who will be the top 3 teams for the USA next season.

 

[dorispulaski]

Heck Elizaveta Tuktamysheva was world champ and never made it to the Olympics

 

[4everchan]

Heck Elizaveta Tuktamysheva was world champ and never made it to the Olympics

exactly

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Really? Clipping one phrase, not even the complete sentence, from a post to create a controversy?

I 100% stand by my statement, bugged eyes or not.

I love both Curry and Cranston, so you don't have to convince me or their merits. We can speculate about possibilities if they had trained for today's competitions. But they didn't develop during the current era. They developed 50 years ago. Their programs that they skated then... and to be clear, I consider those iconic hall of fame programs... would not be competitive today. They just wouldn't, and I don't even think it's rational to think otherwise. It certainly doesn't make them "lesser" because their 70's era programs and content wouldn't outscore today's crop of men.

While I believe many of their best qualities have been lacking in the past 50 years and I rewatch those old videos with fondness, I can also appreciate what I've seen since. For better or for worse, the sport has evolved. And that was my point.

We can all have different viewpoints and ways of expressing our thoughts. There's nothing controversy-inducing about what I said. In fact, you are agreeing with/ repeating my main points. Yes, Cranston and Curry are not 'lesser' simply because their 70s-era program content is different from today's. Cranston and Curry were the best of their generation, albeit with flaws and struggles every skating athlete and performer face. The guys who are at the top today are the best of their generation. IMO, to suggest that the greats of the 70s could not win against top competitors today is a moot point. They all trained and developed in different eras.

I agree with some of your comments in both of your posts. What I am responding to is the notion that groundbreaking skaters of an earlier era could not compete against today's skaters, even if you did not mean that literally. Those earlier skaters paved the way for today's skaters, as I noted. For me, it seems beneficial for today's skaters and fans to simply learn more about skaters of the past.

I see that you were mainly reflecting on technical advances. Of course, the sport has evolved, debatably for better or worse in some ways. Despite direct comparisons of abilities across eras being a moot point, ideally, Cranston and Curry could ably compete today in many aspects, aside from obviously not having developed during a time of training jumps with multiple rotations. Even today, only a handful of men are able to perform multiple quads with technical proficiency and consistency.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Kolesnik is on track to receive citizenship this year, if he hasn’t already.

Hey, good to know. I heard that Christina C should as well. I guess we will hear about it for both when it happens.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Tai and Randy, those masters of two-skating-as-one never beat Rodnina and Zaitsev and won their 1979 world championship only because Rodnina took the year off to have a baby.

Hmm. Just because Tai & Randy never beat Rodnina/Zaitsev head-to-head is not an indication of Tai & Randy not having superlative talent capable of beating R/Z. To me, it is more about what skills were being prized at the time, and also about the politics that have perennially impacted judging in figure skating, as well as about who was the older, more established team with rep status. In some competitions, Tai/Randy were kept behind other Russian teams whom they debatably should have beaten. Eventually, Tai/Randy moved up to challenge the great R/Z, no small feat.

To say that T&R only won 1979 Worlds because R/Z weren't there is an odd statement, akin to saying Knierim/ Frazier only won 2022 Worlds because the Russians weren't there. The reality is, T&R still could have lost no matter who was there. T&R won because they were prepared to win and they were the best at their best during that competition. I'm sure politics was in their favor, too, with R/Z out. But that's beside the point. T&R knew they had to deliver with no mistakes. And they did. We can only go by who competes at a competition. Not by who wasn't there.

Same for Knierim/Frazier, who were absolutely tested at 2022 Worlds and still won because they were ready to win and had the grit to keep their wits and focus when their teammate (Ashley Cain) was rolled off the ice on a stretcher just before K/F had to skate. As well, K/F maintained focus and self-belief after they had to sit through a press conference the day before while the coach of Miura/ Kihara raved about M/K's superior SS and winning status, even though M/K were in gifted third place at the time. Obviously, the political favorites were M/K who were burnt out yet were held up and arguably should not even have made the podium with their mistakes. Knierim/ Frazier knew they had to deliver with no mistakes. And they did.

In any case, there have been many competitions in figure skating, where the winners won by a hair. Eg., pairs championship at 2025 Worlds. In fact, there are many competitions where debates continue to be had over who should have won. There is a long list which I won't attempt to cite. Sometimes, it clearly could have gone any number of ways, and sometimes the fix or the political bias is blatant. Yet, whoever officially wins remains first in the record books. Whoever wasn't there to compete for whatever reason has no place in the conversation, much less any place on the podium.