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Philip Hersh: A painful sight: Hughes, Meissner after the fall(s)
- Thread starter fiercemao
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It is sad to see how both have regressed in the past year. However, I think it is an unfair comparison to use their placements in order to draw the conclusion that they are both doomed. The fact of the matter is that Meissner is in MUCH better shape and position than Hughes is now. Look, Meissner scored 135.92 at Skate America, good enough for 8th at that comp, which arguably had the strongest field of all six events. That same score would have gotten her 4th at TEB...20 points above Emily's 115.48.
That said, neither of them has much of a shot at the World Team if the status quo is maintained. But I have MUCH more faith and confidence in Kimmie than I do Emily.
:chorus:
That said, neither of them has much of a shot at the World Team if the status quo is maintained. But I have MUCH more faith and confidence in Kimmie than I do Emily.
:chorus:
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- Aug 3, 2008
The complete, non-excerpted text, better lays out the comparison, and includes other notable points:
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/2008/11/a-painful-sight.html
http://newsblogs.chicagotribune.com/sports_globetrotting/2008/11/a-painful-sight.html
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- Mar 25, 2008
He makes some good points, but this wasn't one of them:
I think they've become de rigeur in the ladies'. Ice dancers are having no problems, the pairs are no worse, and the standard in the men's events tends to be pretty high; not Plushenko and Yagudin high, but pretty good nonetheless. It seems to me that the ladies' were hardest hit by the new judging system.
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Point well taken. :thumbsup:
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- Jun 21, 2003
I think Hersh is writing from the point of view of the spectator and casual fan. In that case, I would say, yes, it does hurt the appeal of the sport to see ladies sprawled out all over the ice after falls.
When fans spend their money they expect to see at least competence in the most visually obvious aspects of the performance.
What is wrong with this guy? Why is he always focusing on the negative? He's the biggest anti-advocate of a sport that I've ever seen -- why does he get paid by two newspapers for writing this vitriol-filled rambling crap?
It's one thing if he only writes an article a season, then maybe he can recap. But he writes one every week, and even though Kimmie wasn't at TEB, she still got trashed here for no reason. I'm not even a particularly big fan of Kimmie, and I feel bad for her.
Why did he focus on Emily, who was the lowest placing American lady in TEB, and who hasn't competed since a year ago. What about something more positive, like Caroline's clean performance (the only one in the field, in fact) or her bronze medal?? Instead of 55% Kimmie trashing and 44% Emily trashing, and a one-liner of Caroline, he could've focused on the positives, or at least on objective, if not constructive (which seems entirely beyond him), critique.
It's one thing if he only writes an article a season, then maybe he can recap. But he writes one every week, and even though Kimmie wasn't at TEB, she still got trashed here for no reason. I'm not even a particularly big fan of Kimmie, and I feel bad for her.
Why did he focus on Emily, who was the lowest placing American lady in TEB, and who hasn't competed since a year ago. What about something more positive, like Caroline's clean performance (the only one in the field, in fact) or her bronze medal?? Instead of 55% Kimmie trashing and 44% Emily trashing, and a one-liner of Caroline, he could've focused on the positives, or at least on objective, if not constructive (which seems entirely beyond him), critique.
Having met Phil Hersh, I can tell you that he absolutely loves the sport of figure skating. He also says in the article that he finds Meissner and Hughes to be some of the nicest people he's ever met (which many journalists would say).
The issue with many of these commentators isn't that they don't understand the new system. They have a general understanding. The issue-more than the way the sport is scored-is the product on the ice.
There was a quote from Bela Karolyi about watching skate america and how all of the art was gone. Many of the programs have lost the theatrical component that used to be there. There simply isn't time. Even the best programs now are not as interesting for the non-skater as G+G were.
The amount of mistakes has also increased, which disheartens them.
I do think some people are critical of Phil Hersh because he comes across as pompous. That is understandable.
The fact that he cares enough about skating to complain about it? We should be thanking him.
The majority of the journalists covering skating HATE the new system, as do the skaters. It isn't just Hersh.
Ladies skating was extremely popular in North America for almost a century, but it is now the weakest field in international events. It is a story that two of the USA's strongest skaters are now finishing in 8th and 9th place in fields in 10 or 11.
Sandra Bezic commented to me last year that it wouldn't be long before a lady's career was from 14-17. The careers of Hughes and Meissner aren't that far off the mark. They both have slumped after 2007. (There are loads of reasons for that.)
She also said that skating as it is now is a completely different sport than was figure skating was for decades.
It is understandable that many would oppose the change in the sport. These changes were designed to make the sport better, but many feel it has gone off the deep end. Yes footwork sequences are more complex and there is more spinning, but the overall quality of programs has suffered.
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- Jun 21, 2003
I don't think this really applies to Emily Hughes.
I can see how an individual skater might adopt that strategy. Mao Asada, for instance, might think it is worth doing a Rochette -- that is, making a conscious decision to go back to the drawing board on certain technical deficiencies with the goal of being better in two years time whern it "counts the most."
In general, though, I do not think it is healthy for the sport to blow off 3 out of every 4 years. They could use those three years to build up the sport in the eye of the public, instead of saying, yes, this is crap, but come back in three years and we promise to do better.
I think so, too. Like gymnastics.Groshkova said:
This wouldn't be so bad if professional skating could somehow make a comeback.
As to whether Mr. Hersh is good or evil, I think the best stance is, "don't shoot the messenger."
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- Mar 25, 2008
I'm not sure I agree. I don't know what it is about US figure skating that encourages short careers. Maybe it's because there's a lot of competition from younger skaters and the older ladies want to go to college or live a regular life, which is hard to do when you're training 20-30 hours a week and competing.
But many of the European ladies do stick around: Carolina Kostner is 21 and in her 7th season as a senior. Sarah Meier is in her mid-twenties and has skated as a senior since 2000 or 2001; Slutskaya had a long career and retired at 27 - having been far more successful in the second half of her career than as a teen; Julia Sebestyan has been around forever. Even outside Europe, Shizuka Arakawa won Olympics at the age of 24. They all did both 6.0 and IJS, and managed to continue competing and win. Joannie Rochette is now 22, and she's doing just fine. Maybe it's more of a body type question: if you have a tiny balerina frame, changes to your body will have more of an impact. Also, I get the feeling US ladies have very little room for error - for instance, I imagine if one of them had bombed as spectacularly as Caro did in 2006 it could have ended her career.
The top skaters usually combine difficulty with good execution. But 2nd-tier skaters are pushing themsleves very hard, and even some of the top people try elements that are iffy for them, so you get splatfests. But that's because skaters are putting a lot more into their programs; it's easier to go clean when you stroke-stroke-jump and stay on both feet during your footwork.
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- Jul 11, 2003
I'm all for Hersch. He's doing his job as a Sport critic not unlike critics of other Sports. When they see something to praise, they praise; when they see something to rap, they rap. There is no reason for giving special consideration to figure skating if you want the Sport to be as popular as Golf, Tennis, Diving, Gymnastics. Why pussyfoot figure skating? My answer to that is so it does not appear to look like a Pagaent. It's not just about little girls. There are young and older men, and young and older couples as well. They should be treated as adult sportsmen.
it certainly wouldn't! I agree with you. In fact, I find the Disson shows to have more entertaining skating than the competitions. Kimmie and Alyssa did wonderful routines at this Family Tribute on Ice that just aired.
It depends. But we've had young ladies Oly champs for a while now. I don't think the "young phenomenon" is anything new, really. I think it's just another excuse to dump on the new scoring system. Torino was an aberration that saw a 24-yr old win (or was she 25?). In fact, all the medalists were 21 or older.
Asada and Kim, the two favorites, will be 19 by the Vancouver Olympics. It remains to be seen if a younger phenom will come rushing in to pull off an upset.
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- Jan 6, 2007
Okay. Aren't diving and gymnastics somehow even less popular than skating? I could swear that you hear about diving every 4 years, at the Olympics. I know the names of exactly two divers, Mitcham and Louganis. I know way more about gymnastics, but that's because it was my sport. I am quite sure that if I were to ask people if they know any divers, gymnasts or skaters - most people would come up with Katharina Witt, Michelle Kwan, Torvill/Dean, Plushenko, Yagudin, probably Lambiel (at least here in Western Europe)... But I doubt that they could name more than one diver and probably no gymnast at all.
Apart from that I have to agree, it's a critic's job to judge the athletes, the system and the competitions. You are bound to upset someone or even a whole bunch of people. That's the job of a journalist, if he does more than simple reporting.
