Papadakis publishes book; Cizeron challenges claims

[TallyT]

This is not meant to be catty...

But it is, incredibly. It sounds like dismissal trying and failing to sound like faux-pity. For instance...

Gabby is convinced she is he vicitm

Did you have to go there? Sneers like this (and the 'in her mind' dig, okay you don't believe her but you know nothing of the truth any more than anyone else who wasn't there) say more about the people trying to discount what a woman says about her own bl***dy life than about her.

 

[TontoK]

Reading some comments here, from serious fans of the sport who cannot be unaware of the devastating history of abuse in figure skating... sad. Just sad. It's really no wonder the problems weren't addressed decades ago. And it's why we'll still be wrestling with them decades from now.

She's Olympic Champion, multiple times World and European Champion, and she still lacks the gravitas to be taken seriously. She must be dismissed as a semi-unhinged mental case. Another hysterical woman overreacting with an axe to grind.

A pox on that line of argument and may Richard Callahan coach you in your dreams.

 

[meem]

It is such a hard thing. Generally any commentator will have some bias or perceived bias because if they are talking figure skating they usually have some relation to skating. I don't think it is verynice or proper to complain about Gabby because of her accent or perhaps language challenges, translation issues but understnading her for whatever reason can be more difficult. Perceived bias is something that one has to be respectful of. The other potential candidates have not made such polarizing comments.

Excuse me, but if I can't understand her while she's commentating during a program with her soft voice + accent basically being swallowed by the loud music...how am I to benefit from her commentary?

 

[4everchan]

Reading some comments here, from serious fans of the sport who cannot be unaware of the devastating history of abuse in figure skating... sad. Just sad. It's really no wonder the problems weren't addressed decades ago. And it's why we'll still be wrestling with them decades from now.

Well, I will bite.
Saying that someone is not well and wishing her peace is not in any way dismissing what's she's been through. Recognizing her suffering and being empathetic in wishing that she gets better certainly can co-exist. I find that the strong reactions of some people here, with their haste to judge anyone based on a few words, because those are not necessarily the words they would like to read, is very problematic.

In my neck of the woods, it's actually a very important thing to speak up about consequences of abuse, including how anyone could be still needing to heal, sometimes for their entire life. Recognizing that there are still things that need help is encouraged and it is seen as helpful to open up about it. There are actually media campaigns about this. Here is one of them

Bell Let's Talk - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

If Gabby still cannot hear Guillaume's voice, so and this is just my opinion not a diagnostic, she still needs support and time to heal. Saying so, recognizing the trauma she's lived and the consequences still present in her life is actually important, especially with the hope of a better life down the road.

However, it seems that for some people here, the stigma about mental issues or illness is very strong and they are willing to react violently about it, accusing people of being mysogynistic or not believing her. I received a whole bunch of very aggressive comments from people who have no idea who I am, what I have gone through and how much I value psychological health. Why ? Because it's still a big problem it seems for some people to say that someone may still need some help in healing. As if it were an accusation or a label tagged on anyone just as of lack of compassion. It's actually the opposite. It's with dismissive and agressive behaviour like I have read in this thread, refusing open discussion, that many people who do need help do not reach out for it. That's a far bigger issue. I sincerely hope that Gabby has all she needs to be happy. And to those who have judged me so harshly, you will no longer hear back from me, there is a precious function on this forum for that.

 

[Arigato]

Excuse me, but if I can't understand her while she's commentating during a program with her soft voice + accent basically being swallowed by the loud music...how am I to benefit from her commentary?

Mark Hanretty, Belinda Noonan, and Chris Howarth all have accents. And that's just 3 people. An accent isn't really a problem on air, it is the lack of vocal projection that can be problematic. For anyone. A strong voice is effective - especially for the Olympics.

 

[Mathman]

Excuse me, but if I can't understand her while she's commentating during a program with her soft voice + accent basically being swallowed by the loud music...how am I to benefit from her commentary?

For me, the accent is no problem. I greatly admire anyone who can master a second language to the extent of being able to go on TV as a commentator.

As for loud or soft voices, it's on the production crew to adjust the microphones correctly.

 

[4everchan]

For me, the accent is no problem. I greatly admire anyone who is able to master a second language to the extent of being able to go on TV as a commentator.

Agreed

As for loud or soft voices, it's on the production crew to adjust the microphones correctly.

Disagree. It's not that simple to adjust microphones as you may say. If the voice is really much softer than the other analysts, you cannot expect technicians to go up and down successfully as different people speak. And of course, there is the ambient sound i.e the music of the programs etc
I have never heard Gabby comment because I watch CBC. So I'm not discussing her voice or accent just reacting to your comment.

 

[Skater Boy]

But it is, incredibly. It sounds like dismissal trying and failing to sound like faux-pity. For instance...


Did you have to go there? Sneers like this (and the 'in her mind' dig, okay you don't believe her but you know nothing of the truth any more than anyone else who wasn't there) say more about the people trying to discount what a woman says about her own bl***dy life than about her.

As a victim and survivor of rape and abuse I find these comments insulting. Each person's experience is different and I am trying to be respectful. I get it that there are a lot of fans and I guess haters on this website I have been consisten we cannot judge Gabby or any survivor. It is clear she is hurt and she is entitled to those feelings. We may not even understand why she does or reacts the way she does but that is the unque individual experience and epspective. If you study trauma of vicitms and I appreciate the "criticisms" of even Gracie Gold et al it is very difficult for anyone to see where they are coming from. But it is.

Anyways despite what any of you say some of us may not understand, may not agree with how Gabyb has handled this but I think or hope we all want healing for her.

 

[DancingCactus]

I will wait for reviews and an English version. If it seems like the book is a credible account of the problems the industry still needs to come to grips with, then great and important. If it's just washing dirty laundry in public, then I'll abstain.

 

[FlossieH]

Reading some comments here, from serious fans of the sport who cannot be unaware of the devastating history of abuse in figure skating... sad. Just sad. It's really no wonder the problems weren't addressed decades ago. And it's why we'll still be wrestling with them decades from now.

She's Olympic Champion, multiple times World and European Champion, and she still lacks the gravitas to be taken seriously. She must be dismissed as a semi-unhinged mental case. Another hysterical woman overreacting with an axe to grind.

A pox on that line of argument and may Richard Callahan coach you in your dreams.

Saying that someone has mental health problems, and/or that they are dealing with trauma and need support and time to heal, is not saying that they are a "semi-unhinged mental case" or a "hysterical woman". Gabby has been open about having struggled with depression, which is a very common mental health problem. I am a bit puzzled why, when Gabby herself has discussed her mental health problems, some people are getting so irate at anyone who mentions the possibility that Gabby might be struggling with her mental health. I teach in the university sector and around half of my students have declared mental health problems; mostly problems with depression and/or anxiety. That does not mean that they are crazy, unhinged, or hysterical. Rather, it means that they need support and understanding, and an environment where they can be honest about any difficulties which they are having.

A lot of people on this thread seem to have a very dated understanding of mental health problems and, in equating poor mental health with things like craziness and hysteria, are stigmatising and labelling large numbers of people and perpetuating the lack of tolerance and understanding surrounding mental health problems. There may be cultural differences here, and perhaps some parts of the world do still consider that anyone with mental health problems is crazy. That is not how mental health problems are viewed here in the UK, except among some older sections of the population who do not have much understanding of mental health.

 

[noskates]

Gabi's accent WAS hard to understand and her soft voice didn't help - I just didn't think she adequately commented on the ice dancing. Just because someone was outstanding at her craft (and she was) doesn't mean they can comment on it. What's the old saying - those that do cannot teach..or something like that. I have great respect for her skating skills (and she and Cizeron were the very best IMO) and I am truthfully sorry for what she had to endure to be the very best. And I think a lot of people posting in this thread feel the same way and should be allowed to voice that without being challenged as prejudiced, unfeeling, or challenging what she herself has said she went through. Everyone deals with stress in different ways no matter what or who causes it.

 

[gkelly]

The summary phrases "X is not well" or "Y has mental health issues" have often been used to dismiss individuals X or Y as unreliable and as a result not worth listening to. Just using those phrases without nuance comes across as dismissive.

If you want to sound supportive, it would be better to say something like "I'm sorry X had such a traumatic experience. It sounds like she's still struggling with the effects on her psyche" "He's talked about struggling with depression. That must have some effect on his ability to train effectively," or something along those lines.

And then actually pay attention to what X or Y has to say about those experiences, don't write it off as "Oh, well, they're not well. Case closed."

 

[fsfs1980]

The summary phrases "X is not well" or "Y has mental health issues" have often been used to dismiss individuals X or Y as unreliable and as a result not worth listening to. Just using those phrases without nuance comes across as dismissive.

If you want to sound supportive, it would be better to say something like "I'm sorry X had such a traumatic experience. It sounds like she's still struggling with the effects on her psyche" "He's talked about struggling with depression. That must have some effect on his ability to train effectively," or something along those lines.

And then actually pay attention to what X or Y has to say about those experiences, don't write it off as "Oh, well, they're not well. Case closed."

Thank you for sharing this explanation.

 

[4everchan]

The summary phrases "X is not well" or "Y has mental health issues" have often been used to dismiss individuals X or Y as unreliable and as a result not worth listening to. Just using those phrases without nuance comes across as dismissive.

If you want to sound supportive, it would be better to say something like "I'm sorry X had such a traumatic experience. It sounds like she's still struggling with the effects on her psyche" "He's talked about struggling with depression. That must have some effect on his ability to train effectively," or something along those lines.

And then actually pay attention to what X or Y has to say about those experiences, don't write it off as "Oh, well, they're not well. Case closed."

When using an international forum, there should be an understanding that not everyone is a native speaker and thus, not everyone would understand some of these nuances in the language or even the culture. Jumping hastily to conclusions about a user is extremely aggressive in my opinion and, on top of that, is pretty similar to what they are blaming the user of doing in the first place.

 

[TontoK]

Saying that someone has mental health problems, and/or that they are dealing with trauma and need support and time to heal, is not saying that they are a "semi-unhinged mental case" or a "hysterical woman". Gabby has been open about having struggled with depression, which is a very common mental health problem. I am a bit puzzled why, when Gabby herself has discussed her mental health problems, some people are getting so irate at anyone who mentions the possibility that Gabby might be struggling with her mental health. I teach in the university sector and around half of my students have declared mental health problems; mostly problems with depression and/or anxiety. That does not mean that they are crazy, unhinged, or hysterical. Rather, it means that they need support and understanding, and an environment where they can be honest about any difficulties which they are having.

A lot of people on this thread seem to have a very dated understanding of mental health problems and, in equating poor mental health with things like craziness and hysteria, are stigmatising and labelling large numbers of people and perpetuating the lack of tolerance and understanding surrounding mental health problems. There may be cultural differences here, and perhaps some parts of the world do still consider that anyone with mental health problems is crazy. That is not how mental health problems are viewed here in the UK, except among some older sections of the population who do not have much understanding of mental health.

Let's talk about perspective.

My perspective is that people are shadily implying that mental health issues are behind her account of what is happening, and therefore she's not really reliable. And it's being done in the most condescending way.

"Oh, poor Gabby. Well, you know she's had these problems for a long time. She doesn't seem well, does she? I really hope she gets some help. We should all keep her in our thoughts."

I honestly don't know if her account is truthful, although it has a ring of truth to me. But I also think that "I don't believe her" is a reasonable response, given what we know and what we don't. And if that's someone's position, then state it.

 

[fsfs1980]

When using an international forum, there should be an understanding that not everyone is a native speaker and thus, not everyone would understand some of these nuances in the language or even the culture. Jumping hastily to conclusions about a user is extremely aggressive in my opinion and, on top of that, is pretty similar to what they are blaming the user of doing in the first place.

I think the fact that not everyone may understand cultural nuance is the reason for gkelly's explanation, i.e., to help people with that understanding.

 

[BlissfulSynergy]

Laurence Fournier Beaudry must feel like "out of the frying pan, into the fire", wondering if there's someone she can skate with who can stay out of the sensational headlines.

Hmm, I doubt that Laurence F-B didn't know anything about the conflict between Gabi & Gui prior to partnering with Gui. We have to realize that there's a lot that goes on bts in interpersonal fs relationships that we don't know about. Many of these skaters have known each other since childhood, competing with and/ or against each other.

I get the impression from seeing Laurence competing and speaking at pressers that she's extremely happy and in her element. Far from feeling like she's 'out of the frying pan of scandal and into the fire of more scandal,' she's probably feeling a sense of salvation for her ice dance career. For sure her friends, family, and fans felt sad for her when her career was abruptly ended. When the possibility arose to partner with Gui, it must have felt so exhilarating. I would imagine that they discussed all aspects of launching a career together before a mutual decision was made. Then came the joyful part of exploring what a partnership together would look like and feel like. Thus, if the 'frying pan' analogy is applicable, it's more like 'out of the frying pan of grievous career loss, and into the brilliant fire of ice dance creativity and competition.'

I hope that FB/C will continue together for another year or two at least, if not another quad. Laurence is 33, so she'd be 37 in 2030. Gui is 31, so he'd be 35 in 2030. So, it's likely that they won't continue the full quad, unless they feel physically and creatively fit to do so.

 

[TontoK]

I think the fact that not everyone may understand cultural nuance is the reason for gkelly's explanation, i.e., to help people with that understanding.

I think this is true, but I also don't think it's a complete picture.

I think some just want to enjoy the product without thinking beyond that.

We like the French team, so let's not delve further. We like the Shib sibs, so let's not worry about that tape. We like Kamilla, so let's find excuses for that little problem. And on and on, for years and years.

And, actually, I get it. I buy those cheap Chinese products off of Amazon, and I don't like to think about the virtual slaves who made them.

 

[4everchan]

I think the fact that not everyone may understand cultural nuance is the reason for gkelly's explanation, i.e., to help people with that understanding.

My post is confirming that but it also goes the other way around. There shouldn't be such haste in judging others who simply do not share the same cultural nuance. I think it's fair to apprise non-native speakers in such nuances but it's also fair to allow them to express themselves without aggressive reactions.

 

[Mathman]

What's the old saying - those that do cannot teach..or something like that.

I think it's, "Those who can, do. Those who can't, teach."

Actually, that is quite relevant to sports and explains why a star athlete does not always make a good coach. Everything came so naturally to the star athlete that, when he becomes a coach, he can't understand why his pupils are less talented than he was, or what exactly he is expected to do about it.