How much interest can Alysa Liu revive in figure skating in the US?

[Arigato]

Sharing a story from The Atlantic.

The Alysa Liu Effect

She proves that an Olympic gold-medalist figure skater can be strong, warm to her competitors, and salty all at the same time.

www.theatlantic.com

 

[yfan1]

I invite Sally Jenkins to watch a bit more of figure skating, and perhaps to read about Liu's own experiences, because what she writes is nonsense. There have been many powerful women in figure skating who have defied norms, most especially from Japan. Sakamoto even cut her hair short and then dyed it blond this very quadrennial.

 

[4everchan]

I think it's very normal she isn't going to worlds after winning the Olympics but however, if we are only talking about the interest in the USA, I am wondering if those casual fans may have been watching worlds in the hope to see her win it all this year, and now will not bother watching.

I say this without any malice towards Alysa. She shouldn't compete if she doesn't feel like it. I am just looking at the perspective of this thread. Would her participation have gathered more fans at worlds ? Probably.

 

[yfan1]

Interviewer ...there is all of this discourse around you and Eileen Gu.

Alysa I’ve known Eileen since I was 13 or something... her mom is an immigrant [from China]. Y’all would have told her to go back to China. Now that they’re back in China, you’re mad.

Ha, I love it. I'm very happy to hear Liu is defending Gu's right to compete however the heck she wants and for whichever.

There was loads and loads and loads of misogynist and racist crap being written about Gu from the usual quarters, and it was nauseating to see.

 

[Mathman]

Look at this article about Vaudeville.

"With the advent of the radio, however, America found free and easy way to tap into that variety of entertainment that they had looked for inVaudeville.."

I quite agree that new technology opens up new opportunities for the entertainment industry. Radio in turn ,gave way to television. (A shame, in my opinion. I loved those old radio dramas -- "the theater of the mind" -- that required active engagement of the listener's imagination.) As for transferring Vaudeville acts to radio, I always got. a kick out of ventriloquist acts like Edgar Bergan and Charlie McCarthy. Think about it. A ventriloquist act on the radio -- gee, Ihow amazing that he can do that without moving his lips? -- um, he's not moving his lips, right? Now bring on the radio juggler.

Figure skating on TV started in 1968 with Peggy Fleming and the Wide World of Sports and boom! the phenomenon of marketing skating competitions to mass audiences became a thing.

That said, I am not completely sure that I agree with Alysa that figure skating is so boring that audiences can't sit through all that skating. Fans of U.S. football are quite willing to to sit in an outdoor stadium for four hours in a blizzard. (At least Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers, and Buffalo Bills fans are.) People are eager to watch Wimbledon drone on every day ffor two weeks. There must be something more to ithe issue than just the sheer tedium of it all.

 

[yfan1]

Fans of U.S. football are quite willing to to sit in an outdoor stadium for four hours in a blizzard. (At least Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers, and Buffalo Bills fans are.) People are eager to watch Wimbledon drone on every day ffor two weeks.

They are more exciting sports.

They are also marketed to the public far better.

You probably won't be seeing 'I wish we could go back to when tennis players had better lines' either.

 

[Mathman]

They are more exciting sports.

They are?

You probably won't be seeing 'I wish we could go back to when tennis players had better lines' either.

That's quite true. The whole idea that athletic activity can have esthetic appeal has pretty much vanished altogether.

In the NYT interview Alysa says explicitly that figure skating satisfies her athletically but not artistically. For that, she turns to her hobby of photography.

Alysa: Yeah. Although, I will say figure skating does not artistically satisfy me. I’m really big into photography because that does satisfy my creative.

 

[el henry]

....

That said, I am not completely sure that I agree with Alysa that figure skating is so boring that audiences can't sit through all that skating. Fans of U.S. football are quite willing to to sit in an outdoor stadium for four hours in a blizzard. (At least Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers, and Buffalo Bills fans are.) People are eager to watch Wimbledon drone on every day ffor two weeks. There must be something more to ithe issue than just the sheer tedium of it all.

Eagles fans have sat through a few "Snow Bowls" although not nearly was many as the hardy souls you name, I am sure.

I think there should be a happy medium between sitting through 48 SPs and skipping the comp altogether. That's what Wide World of Sports did for us, by curating the skates and having Dick Button tell us what to think (and I am not being a total smart aleck, I think that was part of it).

I take @4everchan's point, Alysa skipping Worlds may be a missed opportunity in terms of the question of her impact. But I will say something that will make "It's a sport sport sport sport" enthusiasts cringe: I think SOI will do more to increase popularity in the US than Worlds will.

Seeing skating live? (My SWAG for Alysa: a shorter MacArthur Park and her gala skate). If you haven't seen skating, it's a great intro (gateway drug if you will, I like that term ) and yes, even a great intro to our sport sport sporting competitions.

But we shall see.

 

[yfan1]

They are?

Of course they are. Their appeal isn't based around aesthetics. What made them exciting 50 years ago still does.

What made figure skating exciting even 20 years ago no longer exists.

 

[4everchan]

Eagles fans have sat through a few "Snow Bowls" although not nearly was many as the hardy souls you name, I am sure.

I think there should be a happy medium between sitting through 48 SPs and skipping the comp altogether. That's what Wide World of Sports did for us, by curating the skates and having Dick Button tell us what to think (and I am not being a total smart aleck, I think that was part of it).

I take @4everchan's point, Alysa skipping Worlds may be a missed opportunity in terms of the question of her impact. But I will say something that will make "It's a sport sport sport sport" enthusiasts cringe: I think SOI will do more to increase popularity in the US than Worlds will.

Seeing skating live? (My SWAG for Alysa: a shorter MacArthur Park and her gala skate). If you haven't seen skating, it's a great intro (gateway drug if you will, I like that term ) and yes, even a great intro to our sport sport sporting competitions.

But we shall see.

we shall see.

people who are into sports won't necessarily go for shows. they want to see the athletes competing and some want to see their athletes winning against the athletes from the other countries. there is nothing like a heated rivalry to drag in the fans. (many puns intended)

stars on ice is for maybe those who like to be entertained but I don't think it creates fans long term. you go to a skating show once, you enjoy yourself but next time you go to cirque du Soleil or to the opera. many people who are seeking entertainment options like to vary these. Who will go to Stars on Ice year after year after year to see the same dozen of skaters ? not me. I didn't even go when it was Patrick's farewell tour...

 

[Mathman]

Of course they are [other sports are more exciting than figure skating].

What made figure skating exciting even 20 years ago no longer exists.

I do not think that figure skating was objectively more exciting 20 years ago than it Is now. It s true that figure skating in the U.S. was more popular as a spectator sport at various times in the past than it is now.

What is depressing about this line of argument is that none of the proposed fixes for figure skating will make it any more -- or less -- exciting. Change the number of jumping passes from 7 to 6? Create separate artistic programs and jump contests? Introduce more accurate measuring devices, maybe artificial intelligence?

--- B-o-r-i-n-g ---

Do a better job of marketing the product? Well, duh, everybody with a product to sell tries to do that. Sometimes it works out successfully, sometimes it falls flat. Telling the ISU, "Do better, chumps," is not very helpful.

By the way, 125 million American viewers watched the 2026 Super Bowl between the Seahawks and the Patriots -- and 130 million watched the halftime show featuring Bad Bunny. I'm not sure what that says about what's exciting and what isn''t, but anyway... If the fact of the matter is that if (a) igure skating is boring and (b) people don't like boring sports, then the conclusion is (c) people don't like figure skating very much any more. But we knew that already

 

[frompolandwithlove]

Stars on ice is for maybe those who like to be entertained but I don't think it creates fans long term.

Hi, I'm one of those long term fans who started following the sport after watching an ice show performance . The funny thing is I don't even really watch ice shows these days and I often skip galas, because I don't like silly fun programs (y'know, with pandas, minions and such).
It doesn't prove anything, I'm just saying it is not impossible to attract new fans through ice shows.

 

[TallyT]

Fans of U.S. football are quite willing to to sit in an outdoor stadium for four hours in a blizzard. (At least Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers, and Buffalo Bills fans are.) People are eager to watch Wimbledon drone on every day ffor two weeks.

There is also the case of the 1000+ Dutch fans who, when they turned up to a FIFA match in orange trousers that had a logo not allowed (sponsorship idiocy) all took them off and watched the match - in public - in their underwear rather than miss it. The things people do...

And at the other end of the 'what do people find worthwhile' scale, as I said before there are those who will save up and fly halfway round the world to watch someone (and it isn't just skaters, I have heard of fans of other sports stars) for relatively short bursts. Will anyone in the future do that for Alysa? (or Ilia Malinin who before the Olympixs was certainly dreaming of it.) Dunno, but a bump - and even better a bump than stays bumped and can be built on - would be nice.

 

[dorispulaski]

People watch cricket matches.

If people will do that, skating has a shot.

 

[noskates]

I'm still pretty confused as to why there is so much negativity where Alysa is concerned. We certainly didn't have these kinds of conversations after previous gold medal winners in any discipline. Why question her longevity at this point in time? I also have to disagree with figure skating being considered a female sport. Not in my experience of going to competitions for over 30 years, probably over 20 SOIs, a couple of Skate Americas and Skate Canadas. I realize y'all have a right to your opinion but sometimes it seems like opinions are stated just because you can state them. Wouldn't it be prudent and rational to just sit back and see instead of proclaiming her a one shot wonder?
,

 

[4everchan]

Not sure who is calling Alysa a one hit wonder but she's already passed that status with 2 Olympic gold medals, 1 world title and 1 world bronze medal. She's also a GPF winner and a 4 times USA medal winner (two titles)

Seriously.

 

[NanaPat]

(For me, the advertising blitz worked -- to the extent that I stole one at age 10. But I din't profit from my ill-gotten gains. The older boy who dared me to do it demanded that I give him the yoyo or he would tell my mother that I stole it.)

This sounds positively Dickensian.

 

[moonvine]

OK, as. the OP....

this is all very interesting folks, but I would love your opinions on my original question:

how much can Alysa's medal and performance increase interest in figure skating in the US? Whether or not deserved, whether or not comparable to others, not relevant to the query:

Can she actually increase interest in the US overall?

She’s not going to worlds, I have no issues with that, she should go to the competitions she wants to. She’s not responsible for increasing interest. But, the average person who watched the Winter Olympics is going to know of Amber, Alysa and possibly Isabeau (I’m not sure how much air time NBC gave Isabeau. I did not watch any of NBC’s coverage). So if they watch Worlds they will see Amber, Isabeau and Sarah. They may or may not know about Grand Prix or Nationals. So who knows when or if they would even see Alysa again. If people don’t follow skating already they don’t know about GP, Nationals, etc. They’re every 4 year fans. Just like I’m an every 4 year fan of short track.

Sorry, I’m rambling. Short answer is she can’t increase interest if she’s not skating.

Personally, having seen the awful things people have said about Amber on social media I am 100% fine with skating being a niche sport.

 

[moonvine]

I quite agree that new technology opens up new opportunities for the entertainment industry. Radio in turn ,gave way to television. (A shame, in my opinion. I loved those old radio dramas -- "the theater of the mind" -- that required active engagement of the listener's imagination.) As for transferring Vaudeville acts to radio, I always got. a kick out of ventriloquist acts like Edgar Bergan and Charlie McCarthy. Think about it. A ventriloquist act on the radio -- gee, Ihow amazing that he can do that without moving his lips? -- um, he's not moving his lips, right? Now bring on the radio juggler.

Figure skating on TV started in 1968 with Peggy Fleming and the Wide World of Sports and boom! the phenomenon of marketing skating competitions to mass audiences became a thing.

That said, I am not completely sure that I agree with Alysa that figure skating is so boring that audiences can't sit through all that skating. Fans of U.S. football are quite willing to to sit in an outdoor stadium for four hours in a blizzard. (At least Chicago Bears, Green Bay Packers, and Buffalo Bills fans are.) People are eager to watch Wimbledon drone on every day ffor two weeks. There must be something more to ithe issue than just the sheer tedium of it all.

I have to admit I had issues sitting through the entire junior men’s worlds SP. It was a LOT.

 

[yfan1]

I do not think that figure skating was objectively more exciting 20 years ago than it Is now. It s true that figure skating in the U.S. was more popular as a spectator sport at various times in the past than it is now.

We fundamentally disagree that there's 'no reason at all' that cultural tastes change - culture is always a product of everything that's happening at the same time... Sure, there's no purely 'objective' reasoning here, but it is true that figure skating simply doesn't look like what it used to when it was more popular, isn't as visible as it used to be due to a variety of issues with its marketing, and a bunch of more accessible forms of entertainment have developed in the last several years.

It's also true that most of the news associated with it highlights its issues with abuse and cheating. That's not what an attractive sport is.

What is depressing about this line of argument is that none of the proposed fixes for figure skating will make it any more -- or less -- exciting. Change the number of jumping passes from 7 to 6? Create separate artistic programs and jump contests? Introduce more accurate measuring devices, maybe artificial intelligence?

Well my fix is an emphasis on better judgment and the fundamentals, along with an overhaul of the IJS.

I do think this will only partly fix it. One main, big problem with it all is that figures are no longer taught or emphasised in skating. Which is not me saying figures should be back - they take so much ice time which inevitably means high costs, and it'd be inherently prohibitive towards making skating a world-wide sport - but the posture, the line, the quality of edge and glide have very clearly declined when they got deemphasised. It's not even me saying that we should go back to the 1990s. Even Tom Dickson used to speak about how he used to emphasise figures with his students. This was back in the late 2000s. Now, well, how many really bother... not too many, if any at all.

Figure skating is simply stuck between a rock and a hard place. Either only the rich participate in it, or it remains unpopular and 'ugly'. Personally, I'd pick the latter in these choices.