Russian coaching committee sets goals for skaters

[mycelticblessing]

The Russian goal at ANY skating competition (especially the ISU and JGP/GP Championships) is to win as many medals as possible.

Why single out Russia. isn't that the goal of ANY country at ANY skating competition.

Besides, their goal for Pairs and Ice Dance is pretty realistic. S/S aren't looking as unbeatable as they used to be. V/M may threaten their goal though. With DelSchoes out, the Russian dancers would definitely be top contenders. I'm sure the goals stated here are the same as that of the skaters themselves.

Goals could simply be the Federation's way of hoping for the best for their skaters. I'm sure all countries have their own goals for their skaters, whether they explicitly state it or not.

 

[Jaana]

I guess I don't see the harm in setting goals.
Voronov was 4th last year. Any other goal aside from a medal would be insulting.

Yes, Voronov´s chances are as good as those for some non-Russian skaters. I just hope that Urmanov would stop trying to create of Voronov a replica of himself. Voronov would need music and choreography that really suits his own person, in my opinion. He just does not have Urmanov´s body type or his stately posture and never will.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I guess I don't see the harm in setting goals.
Voronov was 4th last year. Any other goal aside from a medal would be insulting.

I don't think anyone is against setting goals. It's the methods to obtain those goals that is in question. How political all that is, I do not know which is what Sikhularidsy(SP) is intimating at.

 

[Medusa]

Yes, Voronov´s chances are as good as those for some non-Russian skaters. I just hope that Urmanov would stop trying to create of Voronov a replica of himself. Voronov would need music and choreography that really suits his own person, in my opinion. He just does not have Urmanov´s body type or his stately posture and never will.

But why is Voronov's posture so bad? I can't remember any male Russian Elite skater with such a bad posture! Don't they all take ballet at some point? Even during the exhibition at Russian Nationals, where the speed was much better and the overall presentation also, the posture was horrific. It's like the male Miki Ando. And he still skates like a junior.

Voronov is probably a nice person and everything and a hard worker - but right now I just wish that Lutai gets his act together and take over. I am sure that Lutai's programs could be as pretty as he is - he needs confidence and power, he has the jumps, the talent, the presentation.

 

[enlight78]

I think the coaches should set goals that the skater actually has control over. Like doing a clean long or landing six triples or doing a clean quad in both short or long or breaking 230 pts. There are four skaters that will be at Euros that can beat Voronov if everybody skate reasonably clean but according to the goals he would have still failed. The goals are stupid. There is a difference in encouraging a skater and pushing a skater.

 

[Mathman]

In a way, cheerleaders in American football set up expectations, too; it's all in how you look at it.

:agree:

 

[Jaana]

But why is Voronov's posture so bad? I can't remember any male Russian Elite skater with such a bad posture! Don't they all take ballet at some point?

Well, no other skater has Urmanov´s stately posture on the ice, in my opinion. I think it is just Voronov´s bodytype and mostly wrong kind of choreography + music that does not suit him. I have the feeling that some other choreographer could create wonderful programmes for him.

 

[chuckm]

Why single out Russia. isn't that the goal of ANY country at ANY skating competition.

Most countries' FS heads don't publicize their goals ahead of time, because it puts much too much pressure on the skaters. And I can't think of any other federation head that makes it a point to publicly bad-talk his skaters when they don't deliver the goods.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I think the confusion comes with the question; Who is the best team or single?
Russia having been brought up by the Soviet system wanted that Russia was the best in Space, in Art, and even in Sport. Not unlike the Nazis.

The best skater or team is in the eyes of the beholder. Championships do not prove anything different. But it seems that Russia believes in the gold medal as the best for the country. It just doesn't work that way, imo.

However, I agree that the American media could cool it at the Olympics. For me, the Sport's the thing - not the medals.

 

[Ptichka]

I think the coaches should set goals that the skater actually has control over. Like doing a clean long or landing six triples or doing a clean quad in both short or long or breaking 230 pts. There are four skaters that will be at Euros that can beat Voronov if everybody skate reasonably clean but according to the goals he would have still failed. The goals are stupid. There is a difference in encouraging a skater and pushing a skater.

Yes! As I've said above, M&T's goal should be 2 clean programs. If they do that but still end in 4th place, it's still a success. OTOH, if they don't but still end with a silver because everyone else is even worse - that's a failure.

And I can't think of any other federation head that makes it a point to publicly bad-talk his skaters when they don't deliver the goods.

I think he largely does it to pass responsibility - it's not the federation's fault, but the skaters'. Also, it does go back to the supposed honesty that Communist ideals was supposed to bring.

 

[Jaana]

I think it is totally natural for the Russian Skating Federations to set goals. So does e.g. the Finnish Skating Federation, too: The goal is to get 2 medals at the Europeans. It was not mentioned in the article, but of course that applies to ladies discipline.

 

[Eurofan]

I think Leonova has a better chance of getting into the top 10 than Gerboldt. She may have finished 5th at Russian Nats., but she fared better in Sr. International Competiton: 7th at CoC, 5th at CoR vs. Gerboldt's 9th at Finlandia and 12th at NHK. Their PCS were about the same (Leonova's were a little higher) but there's a much bigger difference in their TES. Gerboldt averaged 20 points less than Leonova in her two events. That said, I hope both ladies rise to the occasion. Watching somebody zamboni a program is not fun.

 

[Buttercup]

I thought it might be fun to look again at the goals set by the Russian Federation for Europeans in light of the actual results. Now that Euros are over (except for the gala), would this still be considered a spoiler?

 

[Tonichelle]

I don't think any of the broadcasts are yet to come, so no it's not considered a spoiler. I think only US Nationals qualifies as spoilerish.

 

[Buttercup]

I don't think any of the broadcasts are yet to come, so no it's not considered a spoiler. I think only US Nationals qualifies as spoilerish.

Thanks, Toni, in that case I'll go ahead. I'm quoting from Ptichka's post that started this thread:

The goal for the ladies - Katarina Gerboldt and Alena Leonova - is to make top ten, which would provide the maximum number of spots (three) for the next Europeans:
Done! And with some margin to spare. Yes, this is mostly testament to the quality of the ladies' field this year, but Leonova had the highest tech on the free skate and Gerboldt really fought hard despite not being 100%, apparently. Good for them.

Sergei Voronov is expected to medal, and Artem Borodulin and Andrei Lutai - to make top ten.
I always thought this was the least realistic, but Lutai probably exceeded expectations.

Yuko Kawaguchi/Alexander Smirnov and Maria Mukhortova/ Maxim Trankov should at the very least hold on to last year's positions - second and third place, and preferably fight for the gold as well.
M/T won the short, and the Russian pairs finished 2-3-5. I don't think this is too surprising, the gap between the top four teams and everyone else is considerable.

Dancers Jana Khokhlova/Sergei Novitksi and Oksana Domnina/ Maxim Shabalin are expected to fight for the first place and to get the top two positions.
We all knew this one was very likely, and it's no surprise that K/N won easily. But I'm not sure Dom/Shabs would've managed the silver had they stayed in.

So, did setting the bar high help the ladies? Was it too much for Voronov? Or maybe the results had nothing to do with the goals set... I'm not sure.

 

[Medusa]

They weren't too bad, were they? Impressive.

Leonova needs a great choreographer now, some training in basic skating skills, some polish - the good, no excellent, news is that she didn't get any downgrades. That could make her really competitive in the future. The Lutz take-off is a problem of course.

The men... Lutai impressed me, landing the Quad, fighting till the end. But he still looked like a scared rabbit out there. I think he has more potential then Voronov, his basic skating skills are just better, he is more musical, has the good old Russian skating posture.

I like K/N. I really do. They are edgy, special... Much better than Russian D/S. I hope they fight for Gold in Vancouver.

Pairs were good too. The problem was that both Russian pairs have, well, strange long programs. They had a chance to win - but not after Savchenko/Szolkowy showed nearly everything they can do.

 

[gio]

I agree with Medusa
As I wrote in the Euro thread some minutes ago, Leonova received low levels in spins, spirals and steps and didn't receive almost any positive GOE for these elements.
She needs to train in spins, spirals and steps + she has to develop artistry and to polish her skating to become competitive.

 

[Mafke]

She needs to train in spins, spirals and steps + she has to develop artistry and to polish her skating to become competitive.

To Do:
Monday, Jan. 26, 2009

1. do nails
2. take out trash
3. develop my artistry

????

What does 'develop artistry' supposed to mean in real terms?

 

[gio]

What does 'develop artistry' supposed to mean in real terms?

It means to try to skate to the music, to have some choreography, to not doing just crossovers between elements, to polish the movements, try to develop a character etc.

 

[Buttercup]

What does 'develop artistry' supposed to mean in real terms?

It means to try to skate to the music, to have some choreography, to not doing just crossovers between elements, to polish the movements, try to develop a character etc.

I would add that it means learning to express yourself in your skating and to connect with the audience. A less experienced skater will often focus mostly on getting the elements done. It's really important for Leonova to really perform and not just skate a collection of elements. Maybe skating in exhibitions would help, at least in learning how to better relate to an audience.

Either way, this is a wonderful result for Leonova and I hope she'll use this as something to grow from as a skater.