What’s harder: generating speed… or controlling it?

[gsk8]

What’s harder: generating speed… or controlling it?

Fast skating is obvious.
Controlled skating is harder to notice.

Some skaters can fly across the ice—but the truly elite ones can control how that speed is used.

Accelerating into jumps
Slowing down without losing flow
Matching speed to the music
Maintaining control through transitions

Current skaters like Kaori Sakamoto, Yuma Kagiyama, and Jason Brown all manage speed differently.

Past skaters like Carolina Kostner and Yuna Kim were often praised for making difficult control look effortless.

So what’s actually harder at the elite level?

– Generating explosive speed?
– Or controlling and shaping it?
– Carrying speed through turns and edges?
– Or slowing down without losing momentum?

Which current skater(s) do you feel manage speed the best?

 

[4everchan]

Patrick Chan

 

[gsk8]

Patrick Chan

I knew that was coming Care to elaborate?

 

[Jeanie19]

Kevin Aymoz. Controlling and shaping his speed with intricate choreographed moves.

 

[4everchan]

I knew that was coming Care to elaborate?

Three crossovers and he's at the other end of the ice. Effortless flow. Really, nobody comes even close. Speed is maintained during difficult footwork. Controlled variations as well to follow music.

It's an obvious answer.

 

[Diana Delafield]

What’s harder: generating speed… or controlling it?

Fast skating is obvious.
Controlled skating is harder to notice.

Some skaters can fly across the ice—but the truly elite ones can control how that speed is used.

Accelerating into jumps
Slowing down without losing flow
Matching speed to the music
Maintaining control through transitions

Current skaters like Kaori Sakamoto, Yuma Kagiyama, and Jason Brown all manage speed differently.

Past skaters like Carolina Kostner and Yuna Kim were often praised for making difficult control look effortless.

So what’s actually harder at the elite level?

– Generating explosive speed?
– Or controlling and shaping it?
– Carrying speed through turns and edges?
– Or slowing down without losing momentum?

Which current skater(s) do you feel manage speed the best?

There are quite a few who qualify. Since I don't watch the singles skaters as much, I have to say that currently I'm probably driving my nice neighbours bats (since my windows are open) by repeatedly watching Kihara and Miura's Olympics FS. I hate it when skaters bob up and down as they stroke -- and even some elite skaters do -- and want to see what my first coach taught, that you should look as if you could carry a cup of tea on your head at your top speed and not spill a drop. Those two do. They're small compared to other pairs, but they generate power in the first smooth stroke after any pause, without any visible effort, and they fly.

Not a speed thing, but after she lands the second throw, the tiny Kihara from then on flings out her arms and shoots lightning from her fingertips out to the walls of the arena. My old coach would have loved her.

 

[NanaPat]

Two days after going to Stars on Ice (Canada) I must say I am still impressed by Keegan Messing's acceleration, speed, and ability to do footwork while flying around the ice.

 

[Arigato]

– Generating explosive speed?
– Or controlling and shaping it?
– Carrying speed through turns and edges?
– Or slowing down without losing momentum?

Which current skater(s) do you feel manage speed the best?

Honestly? I don't see generating speed or controlling and shaping the speed as mutually exclusive. The best male skaters I have seen do it all.

 

[nat01]

What’s harder: generating speed… or controlling it?

Fast skating is obvious.
Controlled skating is harder to notice.

Some skaters can fly across the ice—but the truly elite ones can control how that speed is used.

Accelerating into jumps
Slowing down without losing flow
Matching speed to the music
Maintaining control through transitions

Current skaters like Kaori Sakamoto, Yuma Kagiyama, and Jason Brown all manage speed differently.

Past skaters like Carolina Kostner and Yuna Kim were often praised for making difficult control look effortless.

So what’s actually harder at the elite level?

– Generating explosive speed?
– Or controlling and shaping it?
– Carrying speed through turns and edges?
– Or slowing down without losing momentum?

Which current skater(s) do you feel manage speed the best?

Honestly? I don't see generating speed or controlling and shaping the speed as mutually exclusive. The best male skaters I have seen do it all.

Honestly? I don't see generating speed or controlling and shaping the speed as mutually exclusive. The best male skaters I have seen do it all.

It's all in balance and speed with self control.

 

[ladyjane]

TBH: generating speed is one thing, controlling it quite another. I believe most skaters can generate speed. Not everybody can keep it up and still do difficult steps, jumps, etc. without loosing control. Many either loose control (and that's obvious even on screen) or loose a bit of the speed. To me single skater Patrick Chan also comes to mind as one who could do it, as do the two Dance Teams from Czechia. Even among those, sometimes the control is lost with falls, mistakes, strange moves to prevent it, etc.

 

[dorispulaski]

I find the two Czechia dance teams to be examples of teams with excellent speed, but not so excellent control and musicality.

Jason Brown is an interesting example of a fast skater with great control and musicality, but whose jumping is sub par.

The ice dance Browns have wonderful control and musicality but could be faster.

What's hard for one is easier for another.

But I do think the ISU should determine which is actually harder and reward that.

In the case of musicality, the PCS should take better account of it than it does.

 

[yfan1]

I honestly don't understand the question.

Generating speed properly is hard. But it's not going to be hard for elite skaters, or Olympic level skaters. We can nitpick though - we all know Eteri skaters "limped", we can see Boyang Jin used to not lift his feet up properly after each stroke earlier in his career, Nathan Chen's stroking used to get very messy earlier in his career, Daniel Grassl's stroking looks totally unbalanced to this day, so on. And there were the back pumpers like Adam Rippon.

Controlling speed? What do you mean? You mention Carolina Kostner, who purposely slowed down later in her career to land her jumps, and used to pretty much look like a freight train earlier in it. Yuna, sure, but on the other hand Mao was considered 'slower' but used to gain speed effortlessly.

If you simply mean acceleration/deceleration, well Mao is one who showed effortless acceleration and deceleration. Some skaters accelerate well, but have clunkier deceleration. Some accelerate well but look like hockey players when they do it. Some are good at neither.

 

[yfan1]

– Carrying speed through turns and edges?

This particular one took more time to remember, but the immediate example that comes to mind is Javier Fernandez. You can see he is significantly less flowy and speedy in his step sequences compared to the rest of his programs. His edge quality was never the best either, even if it was marked as such.

Yuzuru Hanyu didn't use to lose much speed or flow, but didn't have the absolute best technique when it came to his steps and turns.

Patrick Chan, yeah. Excellent turn technique (proper positioning over his blades, and textbook perfect use of his core and the twist during his steps, textbook use of knee and ankle bends), and definitely didn't use to lose much speed through his steps and turns. Great technique on his knees, even if I never was a fan of how he did his steps with the music.

 

[gsk8]

I honestly don't understand the question.

Generating speed properly is hard. But it's not going to be hard for elite skaters, or Olympic level skaters. We can nitpick though - we all know Eteri skaters "limped", we can see Boyang Jin used to not lift his feet up properly after each stroke earlier in his career, Nathan Chen's stroking used to get very messy earlier in his career, Daniel Grassl's stroking looks totally unbalanced to this day, so on. And there were the back pumpers like Adam Rippon.

Controlling speed? What do you mean? You mention Carolina Kostner, who purposely slowed down later in her career to land her jumps, and used to pretty much look like a freight train earlier in it. Yuna, sure, but on the other hand Mao was considered 'slower' but used to gain speed effortlessly.

If you simply mean acceleration/deceleration, well Mao is one who showed effortless acceleration and deceleration. Some skaters accelerate well, but have clunkier deceleration. Some accelerate well but look like hockey players when they do it. Some are good at neither.

That’s fair — I probably should’ve phrased it more clearly.

I wasn’t really talking about basic speed generation or stroking mechanics as much as how skaters manage momentum and pacing within a program.

More things like:

• carrying speed through turns/transitions
• changing tempo without looking abrupt
• slowing down without the program feeling “dead”
• accelerating in a way that still matches the music

That’s why I mentioned skaters like Kostner or Yuna — not because they were literally the fastest, but because they could shape speed and flow so naturally.

And I actually agree with your Mao example — she’s a great example of effortless acceleration/deceleration and edge efficiency.

 

[Anna K.]

I have my bit of confusion, too

When the speed excites me the most is when I watch how the school figures were skated. Not because of superfast movement but because the speed - or, shall I say the flow? - originates from nowhere. There is no stroking, no pushing. The only speed generating&controlling factor is a slight knee bend when coming out of the turn. It still has a jaw-dropping effect on me

So, shall I say that speed excites me when it originates from control? Or, shall I say that I prefer control when it provides speed?

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

If I may go on with the off-topic of skaters who don't compete anymore, the most impressively contrasted skater in my viewpoint was Alina Zagitova, because she had a really poor stroke but once at high speed (or at a lower speed "of course") she had such mastery of any multidirectional move in any body position... just mindblowing. I remember some people calling for a cap in the Skating Skills Component for skaters with a poor basic stroke technique. Rules would have allowed judges to have such a cap in their (possible) scoring grid (and still are), but I'm happy that it wasn't imposed on them.
Regarding the Patrick Chan vs Yuzuru Hanyu comparison, the latter's image that comes to mind is of his earlier Senior years, when he was indeed competing to surpass Patrick Chan. At this time Yuzuru Hanyu's Step technique wasn't up to Patrick Chan's, his thing indeed was doing steps faster (I'm not saying that Patrick Chan's Step Sequences were slow!) while keeping a wonderful fluidity and effortlessness, even in the occasional stumble or imperfection. Where Patrick Chan's skating was "like in butter", Yuzuru Hanyu's was "like water". Later, and particularly in his two last seasons, Yuzuru Hanyu's Steps were something never seen I believe.
I also believe that programs have been getting fuller in time, therefore more demanding in terms of speed acquisition, deceleration, that most Single Skaters have long been able to have rather elegant Crossovers or at least relatively discreet ones (as Diana Delafeld has mentioned how irksome it can be to see laboured ones), but to this day nobody has managed to reduce their number in a program as Yuzuru Hanyu has done, progressing against himself and without scoring incentive even after Patrick Chan retired, and going on even after the end of his competitive career.

 

[gsk8]

It's all in balance and speed with self control.

Right! And who in your opinion shows these qualities in that regard?

 

[yfan1]

Later, and particularly in his two last seasons, Yuzuru Hanyu's Steps were something never seen I believe.

I hope I don't regret asking "how so?"

He's doing quite literally the same cluster requirements that everyone else is doing.

I wouldn't say Chan and Hanyu were about equal in different ways or whatever. You can see the difference quite easily at 2017 worlds - Hanyu's edges are definitely not as easy or deep as Chan's.

As much as I dislike the program, it's yet again Chan's one foot step sequence in his Take Five that was considered the 'textbook' example of skating skill in a program. That, I'd say, was never before seen. You saw many do it both those seasons and like Slutskaya in 2002, but not as well as him, not with as perfect technique as his, in singles skating.

but to this day nobody has managed to reduce [crossover] number in a program as Yuzuru Hanyu has done,

This is just silly. You inherently reduce the amount of stroking you do as your muscles develop, and you just plain start getting more bang for your buck with the crossovers.

Hanyu plainly did do pushes in his skating, even if not all were 'crossovers'.

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

I hope I don't regret asking "how so?"

He's doing quite literally the same cluster requirements that everyone else is doing.

I wouldn't say Chan and Hanyu were about equal in different ways or whatever. You can see the difference quite easily at 2017 worlds - Hanyu's edges are definitely not as easy or deep as Chan's.

As much as I dislike the program, it's yet again Chan's one foot step sequence in his Take Five that was considered the 'textbook' example of skating skill in a program. That, I'd say, was never before seen. You saw many do it both those seasons and like Slutskaya in 2002, but not as well as him, not with as perfect technique as his, in singles skating.


This is just silly. You inherently reduce the amount of stroking you do as your muscles develop, and you just plain start getting more bang for your buck with the crossovers.

Hanyu plainly did do pushes in his skating, even if not all were 'crossovers'.

First, I meant Steps, as in Steps. I didn't mean only Step Sequences; I don't mind going this way, though.
You mentioned Patrick Chan's Step Sequence in Take Five as been something never seen, I don't have enough knowledge of what was skated before, but I have no difficulty in believing that such long one-foot sequences with such flow, "elastic" moves, with two different sorts of Twizzles (each double) had never been seen before, and that was a prowess in a good meaning of the word, that is, looking rather effortless. Here's this jewel at 2011 World Championships:

https://x.com/stepsequence100/status/2036385013642453067

Prescription: one every Monday morning in case of Monday morning mood syndrome.

By the way, I would suggest some who don't know what it means to interpret Jazz music for a rather restrained skater, to take Patrick Chan as an example.

Then you dare to say that his 2017 World Championships Step Sequence was better than Yuzuru Hanyu's at the same competition?
Here's Patrick Chan's Short Program, the Step Sequence starts at 1min10, and we have his usual deep edges, fluidity, here too a double Twizzle (which doesn't look like a difficult exercise as I have seen with some others) and once again he hits the music with his interpretation:

https://x.com/krobill2/status/2050182016994345220

 

[DizzyFrenchie]

But then, there was Yuzuru Hanyu, and I'd bet you didn't remember that his Short Program was inferior to Patrick Chan's before writing, this was already never seen, as crazy as the song name. (And I'm sorry but your take was completely off-topic as it wasn't about speed gaining and controlling.) I don't have an X/Twitter because Yuzuru Hanyu's skating posted on many social media is too often reported by toxic antis pretending to act on Copyright grounds (even against his own channel or official TV channels), his edges are just as good, and the pack of difficulties it is, and the interpretation:

- YouTube

Enjoy the videos and music you love, upload original content, and share it all with friends, family, and the world on YouTube.

www.youtube.com

There was a poll on Twitter about the best 2017 World Championships Step Sequence:

IceTalk Podcast (@IceTalkPodcast) on X

Which men's skater had the best short program of the 2016-17 season?

x.com

But that wasn't the end of it, it became a new standard to him, and in the next years, his Otoñal and Let Me Entertain You's Step Sequences were just as difficult in different ways.