What’s harder: generating speed… or controlling it? | Page 2 | Golden Skate

What’s harder: generating speed… or controlling it?

Then came Rondo. Did you ever watch Rondo? Just the same clusters as other skaters, really? These words don't denigrate only Yuzuru Hanyu, they do it Patrick Chan too. And not only did they have more difficult steps and clusters than the rest, there was the "quality of execution" and that was the biggest difference...
Let's come back to Rondo, which was not only never seen for Yuzuru Hanyu himself in speed acquisition (I'm sorry, but your attempt at an argument about how avoiding Crossovers isn't difficult, does not do credit to your knowledge of Figure Skating; yes it's utterly difficult and only Yuzuru Hanyu could gain speed "magically", to take a word from Jenny Mast at an ISU seminar), which is the core of the subject in this thread, here we have the Step Sequence at the Olympic Games, and please tell me which other skater, in addition to the extreme difficulty of the rest, the effortlessness and the sensitivity, expressiveness, projection in interpretation, has four series of different Twizzles (not all top Ice Dancers have learned as many, and I think that only one team has Sit Twizzles?), two double, one triple (sat!) and a quintuple?
That was a new ground breaking:


https://x.com/Henni147/status/1515986544804380673
 
Then came Rondo. Did you ever watch Rondo?
Unfortunately, yes.
Just the same clusters as other skaters, really?
Yes? Unless he got level 4s somehow without following the rules. What is "never before seen" if you could tell me specifically?
These words don't denigrate only Yuzuru Hanyu,
Luckily, I wasn't aiming at "denigrating" anyone.
Then you dare to say that his 2017 World Championships Step Sequence was better than Yuzuru Hanyu's at the same competition?
This really seems like a comic at this point with your usage of language. Yes, since this is about *skating skills*, Patrick Chan's steps were better than Hanyu's in terms of *skating skills*.

He had better skating technique, and I wasn't ever agreeing with the judges when they marked them so closely.

Hanyu did do more difficult transitions in some programs than Chan ever did, and I liked his performance/musicality of the step sequences more. But even within those, step for step, Chan used to show better technique.
 
But then, there was Yuzuru Hanyu, and I'd bet you didn't remember that his Short Program was inferior to Patrick Chan's before writing, this was already never seen, as crazy as the song name. (And I'm sorry but your take was completely off-topic as it wasn't about speed gaining and controlling.) I don't have an X/Twitter because Yuzuru Hanyu's skating posted on many social media is too often reported by toxic antis pretending to act on Copyright grounds (even against his own channel or official TV channels), his edges are just as good, and the pack of difficulties it is, and the interpretation:



There was a poll on Twitter about the best 2017 World Championships Step Sequence:

But that wasn't the end of it, it became a new standard to him, and in the next years, his Otoñal and Let Me Entertain You's Step Sequences were just as difficult in different ways.

Thank you for this!!!
Looking back to the 2017 Worlds and listening to those commentators one might say that while Patrick Chan was skating to the Beatles, Yuzuru Hanyu was himself the Beatles of figure skating ;) (while actually skating to Prince, and later to Hisaishi), lol. Take Five was commentated upon as something never seen before? Very well. Otonal, Seimei, Chopin, Let's Go Crazy, Hope and Legacy - all were commentated upon by this or that commentator as something unprecedented and never seen before. Yuzuru himself was called by them unprecedented, lol.

Otherwise I don't think we want to turn this thread into a never-ending discussion of Patrick Chan and Yuzuru Hanyu as history resolved this debate pretty clearly by now. Still I also think it is difficult because they are / were very different skaters with different strengths and skating styles. While Patrick was all about keeping deep edges, one foot skating and smooth glide, Yuzuru had it all but was even more about dynamic changes of edges and directions, speed and rhythm, explosive power, mastering acceleration and performing most difficult elements at high speed, be it turns, steps or jumps which to me is the highest form of control. This made Yuzuru appear much faster and way more in control even at times when their factual speed would be comparable, just because he was much more dynamic and high energy skater with much sharper movements and way better aligned with music (but of course Yuzu mostly did not just look faster, but he actually was faster). Watching Blackbird and Let's Go Crazy back to back clearly shows the difference. Going into jumps without losing speed was something commentators were repeatedly praising Yuzuru for since his early days, and not Patrick Chan, as was, what they called, jumping put of nowhere.

In effect, the audience was getting very different performances from the two of them, and which one they liked - and more importantly here, valued - better, depended mostly on their individual preferences I guess. Which group of the audience was more numerous we all know, though it does not necessarily comply with the breakdown on this particular forum. Which style was harder? For me the answer lies in this - I can imagine Yuzuru recreating any of Patrick's programs, even if they do not fit his style, but I do not see Patrick able to recreate Yuzuru's most crazy stuff, especially without losing its integration with music. I guess, for me that shows which one is harder.

Going back to the OP, generating explosive speed, accelerating into jumps, slowing down without losing flow, matching speed to the music and maintaining control through difficult transitions - are all on Yuzuru's side of the table. Sorry, guys.
Speed or control? Control at high speed for me. :)

And BTW, OP's question is not just about skating skills as some posters seem to suggest. It is also about Transitions and Interpretation of the music components, if we're talking about programs from that era and that version of IJS ;)
 
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We’ve talked a lot about Hanyu and Chan, but I'm also interested in other skaters with different styles where “control” can show up in very different ways:

For instance, for long-time fans, there are Janet Lynn, John Curry, Kurt Browning, and Toller Cranston.

More recently, I can think of Jason Brown, Satoko Miyahara, Daisuke Takahashi, and Shoma Uno.

Also, Mao Asada was especially strong at acceleration/deceleration transitions, while Carolina Kostner could slow things down without killing movement.
 
I wouldn't give Satoko as an example of a particularly noteworthy speed, but if we're talking purely about blade control (multidirectional turns, positioning, sharp turns while maintaining fluidity, yada yada), then yeah.
 
Speaking of one-foot step sequences, here are some older examples. More focused on complexity, control, and musical expression than on power, although it is necessary for the skaters to regain power through the edges and turns etc. without pushing from the other foot, and to maintain flow/not lose power.

Short program

"Interpretive" program

Professional/show program

Show program
 
Speaking of one-foot step sequences, here are some older examples. More focused on complexity, control, and musical expression than on power, although it is necessary for the skaters to regain power through the edges and turns etc. without pushing from the other foot, and to maintain flow/not lose power.

Short program

"Interpretive" program

Professional/show program

Show program
I hope that my problems watching Youtube videos will solve soon! Here on each video, I get the message that the video is anavailable. It doesn't mention a country of anything. It's been days I've been struggling with Youtube, I wonder if it's just me and my configuration?
 
I hope that my problems watching Youtube videos will solve soon! Here on each video, I get the message that the video is anavailable. It doesn't mention a country of anything. It's been days I've been struggling with Youtube, I wonder if it's just me and my configuration?
Working fine for me, and I'm in Canada where that "not in your country" exclusion happens fairly often.
 
Speaking of one-foot step sequences, here are some older examples. More focused on complexity, control, and musical expression than on power, although it is necessary for the skaters to regain power through the edges and turns etc. without pushing from the other foot, and to maintain flow/not lose power.

Short program

"Interpretive" program

Professional/show program

Show program
It worked! It must have been some change in Youtube affecting temporarily my configuration.

Thank you so much!
David Liu may have had even more technical difficulty in his Step Sequences, but it sees a bit? Maybe because he's not completely in the music?
Actually, none of these skaters has the smoothness, fluidity of Patrick Chan, nor the variation in the explosiveness of body and limbs moves which accentuates the expression of the music, and which Patrick Chan possesses along so very few skaters; it's off-topic at first sight, but I wonder if interpreting the music so convincingly doesn't add to the required mastery of speed acquisition and control techniques?
Brian Boitano and Alexander Abt are interpreting the music, but without these enhancements, and they're also less smooth than Patrick Chan; but (totally off-topic) that 3Lz? with arms in classical fourth position by Brian Boitano was chef's kiss...
 
Found another one-foot sequence, notable primarily for being circular rather than straight line:
Thank you, it was quite impressive indeed! So we could say that Patrick Chan rather brought to a perfection a difficult type of Step Sequence.
 
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