Okay Ladies Enough of the Biellmann Spin Already!

[Ladskater]

Without exception Denise Biellmann did the defintive spin that now bears her name. Of course she did not invent the spin but did make it popular. Her spin was more athletic than one sees now. However, frankly I am tired of seeing the ladies copy one another or trying to outdo one another with this spin. I would love to see a text book camel spin equal to the famous "Hamill " Camel (Dorothy Hamill) or Karen Magnussen classic.

Unfortunatley there is no footage of Karen Magnussen available, but here is Dorothy Hamill skating at the 1976 Olympics (which she won):

By the way this was covered by Debbie Wilkes and the late Johnny Esaw of CTV in 1976:

http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=QC34pKdbX5M

 

[Tonichelle]

it gets high levels...

I've gotten used to it *shrugs*

 

[vlaurend]

It's difficult. It should get credit. We see lots of triple flips and triple lutzes; why isn't anyone tired of those?

 

[Tinymavy15]

Actually the Biellmann is more rare this year than a few years ago. In fact more ladies do not do them rather than do. in 2005-06 EVERY single program had biellman spins, spirals to death! I like them when they are done well, like anything else.

 

[AliasJohnDoe]

I only like them when both hands are on the blade. Not one on the blade and the other grabbing a wrist or forearm.

 

[Particle Man]

OK, help me get rid of the CoP system and your wish will come true as well.

 

[Okami]

Actually the Biellmann is more rare this year than a few years ago.

I totally agree. In the Olympic season (2005-06) the Biellman spin was much more popular, and some skaters did as many as 3 Biellman spins in one routine (and often a Biellman spiral, too). I actually miss some of the spins from those days - like Irina's Biellman-back Biellman, or Mao's one-handed back Biellman out of the donut spin.

In fact more ladies do not do them rather than do.

I agree with this as well. Quite a lot of the high level skaters (Carolina, Miki, Fumie, Akiko, Rachel, Kimmie, Laura...) do not have a Biellman spin in their routines.

After the Olympics 2006 the rules were changed. The skater can no longer repeat the same difficult position (Biellman, donut, ets.) in their program. It also became possible to achieve a high spin level without having great flexibility (for example by holding the spin for more than 8 revolutions). All in all, I don't think that CoP can be blamed for the fact that some ladies still dare to do a Biellman spin.

So why do they do it? My answer is simple: listen to the audience reaction when somebody does a Biellman spin, especially a good one! :thumbsup: IMHO it's one of the most applause-generating elements, next to the upper-tier jumps and Ina Bauer. It's double the fun when a male skater does it - Yuzuru Hanyu hardly needs the Biellman position to achieve high levels, but boy, does the audience go wild when he does it!

Personally I love well done Biellman spins! Especially those with either both hands on the blade and tight position, or one-handed with the second hand resting on hip or extended. Back Biellmans are great, too - Roanna Sari Oshikawa has a great one.

 

[NatachaHatawa]

OK, help me get rid of the CoP system and your wish will come true as well.

You said it!

What really bugs me is the amount of ugly Biellmann spins out there. When it's properly done, it's great, but otherwise, just, no.

It would be great to see a bigger variety of spins, but unfortunately the system doesn't encourage it. Stéphane Lambiel regreted it too. If the spin king, the person who benefited the most from the new systems revalorisation of spins, isn't happy about the way spins are graded then that's saying something!

 

[Ladskater]

I should add, it's not that I don't like or appreciate a well done Biellmann spin - infact I like Shawn Sawyers inventive spin and his Biellmann spin best. Of the ladies I think Sasha Cohen's is one of the most graceful and well positioned Biellman spins.

It's just that at one time a Biellman spin was an embelishment and not every skater would do one or could do one for that matter - depended on their flexibility so it was a real treat when it was in their program.

It's refreshing when skaters use different moves or invent a variation.

Thanks for all your comments.

 

[jenaj]

How difficult are Biellmanns, really, if someone has the flexibility. I see skaters at public skates doing Biellmanns. Biellmanns, IMO, should be judged as part of the PCS mark.

 

[inskate]

Personally I think that by now the spins became infinitely better than during the CoP era, especially when you look at novice/junior skaters. There's definitely much more variety of positions.

I love Biellmans and I don't remember any poorly executed one this season... The skaters struggled a bit in the previous seasons (mostly in the Olympic one, IMHO), but now I really can't remember any skater who would wobble or have a problem getting into the position. And I've seen a lot of really great ones. :thumbsup:

 

[Eurofan]

I don't know - that's a bit like saying "Enough of the layback" because we see a lot of mediocre-to-ugly laybacks. I only get annoyed when a skater has been around long enough to know better but still doesn't improve the spin position, e.g., Fumie Suguri, who has always had an atrocious layback.

 

[vlaurend]

After the Olympics 2006 the rules were changed. The skater can no longer repeat the same difficult position (Biellman, donut, ets.) in their program.

Actually, the only spin position that is limited in the number of times it can be repeated is the Biellmann (not the donut or any other position). Also, in the short program, the Biellmann can only be done after 8 revolutions in layback position:

Biellmann position counts as a feature that can increase the level only in one spin in the Short Program and in two spins in Free Skating. While doing that, the first spin(s) is (are) taken into account.

The position of a “Biellmann Spin” can only be taken and considered
as a feature to increase the Level after having successfully rotated these required 8 revolutions in the layback-position
(backward and/or sideways).

Also, I don't think the Biellmann spin should stop getting credit just because it's easy for flexible skaters. That's like saying triple jumps should get less credit because they're easy for athletic skaters. I would never be able to achieve a Biellmann position and I've had to work hard to get a catch foot spiral with my foot higher than my head, so I think these flexibility moves deserve plenty of credit. Even more so because flexibility often comes at the price of strength and stable jumps.

 

[Ladskater]

Okay folks! I am not saying not to include the Biellmann, but not every skater has the flexibility needed to execute a good one. I think the majority here misunderstood my point....

 

[skatingbc]

I once saw a variation on a Biellmann that was really cool. The skater had her blade in one hand and instead of reaching up and grabbing i with both, she rested it on her shin. I've seen a lot of women do this in a spiral sequence but not much in the spin. It looked really nice, IMO.

 

[vlaurend]

Okay folks! I am not saying not to include the Biellmann, but not every skater has the flexibility needed to execute a good one. I think the majority here misunderstood my point....

I see your point. On the other hand, if a skater executes a Biellmann but it doesn't look very good, that is going to affect the GOE for that spin as well as the overall PCS marks (execution, choreography, interpretation, etc.) I truly believe everything judges see always gets reflected somewhere. . .

 

[KayMil01]

The one thing I don't like about the Beilmann is that some skaters (like Marai and Caroline) is that they tilt their heads back making it look as if they're straining their body more than they need to while in the position...creeps me out lol.

 

[vlaurend]

The one thing I don't like about the Beilmann is that some skaters (like Marai and Caroline) is that they tilt their heads back making it look as if they're straining their body more than they need to while in the position...creeps me out lol.

I think what's really creepy is that Mirai and Caroline have such flexible backs that it isn't even a strain for them to practically wrap their spines around the backs of their heads!

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

As a spin it is part and parcel one of the basic acrobatic moves. You will not see it ballet so please don't confuse.

 

[Bennett]

I wonder how many of the posters on this board can do the biellmann position. I tried it once myself and figured that you gotta be super flexible to do that.