Mens' LP

[ks777]

i think the only peson that can maybe match patrick at his level of Presentation is maybe Buttle and Takahashi( I always thought lambiel was kind of stiff) One is retired and the other having a injury time out. But Chan is still not consistant. Brian quads also give him a good chance.Worlds is still up for grabs.

Are you kidding me? Takahashi is much more complete than Patrick! Patrick's expression is only one dimentional at best. He has no flair whatsoever.

 

[bekalc]

Watching Patrick and Kozuka while I think Patrick is superior, I think the marks should be a little closer. 70 in PCS for Kozuka was to low. He could have been a 73 and that would have been a little fairer.

My only feeling with Patrick is the suspician that he's getting tons of credit for everything he does well, but others aren't getting credit for what they do well.

For example, Abbott's transitions mark should be around where Chan's is. Kozuka's skating skills should be around where Chans' is. And I actually think Joubert is a better performer than Patrick.

Patrick maybe should have the best "all around PCS" but I just take issue when I see others getting lowballed. However, I think Daisuke is better at presentation than Chan is, but I'm not sure the judges would give it to them.

I'm okay with Chan's scores if I felt the judges weren't so stingy with others.

 

[jcoates]

Just a note about the gap in PCS between Chan and everyone else. Many posters here seem to be operating under the assumption that this is some sort of fixed or static mark for any particular skater that should not change from one event to the next. That is not the case, or at least it's not intended to be. PCS should reflect what the skaters did on the ice in the performance just as TES does. In the case of this competition, Kozuka and Oda both fell and lost steam as a result. Chan did not. Chan also skated with more energy, speed and power through his whole program. His program is also a much better fit for his skills, IMO. If Kozuka and Oda in particular had been clean, they would likely have had higher PCS. Also, compare Abbott's PCS here to the GPF. They dropped because his performance was not as good.

Calm down people, it's one competition, the best skate won, does the margin really matter in the end? Chan could blow up in LA and someone off the radar could win. It happened last year.

 

[Medusa]

Well, the world record is still in the capable hands of Prince Daisuke. He scored 15 points higher overall at 4CC a year ago (he got a lot more on TES back then with 2 Triple Axels and 2 Quads).

 

[Alicja]

Is that the general argument now: Chan is just superior on everything?

Well, since you say so and the judges say so, we have to accept it then. Perhaps they should just let Chan jump a Triple Axel at Worlds and Olympics, the most difficult jump he can do - if he manages that - just give him the Gold already, since it is common law that he is above everyone else and nobody comes even close.

Wow. You sound so utterly ironic and somewhat bitter... You know I think most of us want the judging to be as accurate as it can possibly be. I find the comment on the triple axel rather ridiculous! COP has its bright and its dark side, I'm sure of that! but wasn't one of its positive sides that it reflects that jumping isn't everything about skating??

 

[Okami]

The same happened with Jeff Buttle when he won Worlds wihtout quad but high marks in PCS. In Jeff's case, at least he got all his jumps in, including two 3A.

Jeff won on TES, his PCS were lower than Brian's (not quite fairly, IMHO), and his GoEs were good, but moderate. I don't have any troubles with Jeff's victory - his scores were perfectly fine for a quadless skater. He nailed two perfect programs that I will remember for a long time.

This, however...

My only feeling with Patrick is the suspicion that he's getting tons of credit for everything he does well, but others aren't getting credit for what they do well.

My feeling exactly.

 

[bekalc]

Just a note about the gap in PCS between Chan and everyone else. Many posters here seem to be operating under the assumption that this is some sort of fixed or static mark for any particular skater that should not change from one event to the next. That is not the case, or at least it's not intended to be. PCS should reflect what the skaters did on the ice in the performance just as TES does. In the case of this competition, Kozuka and Oda both fell and lost steam as a result. Chan did not. Chan also skated with more energy, speed and power through his whole program. His program is also a much better fit for his skills, IMO. If Kozuka and Oda in particular had been clean, they would likely have had higher PCS. Also, compare Abbott's PCS here to the GPF. They dropped because his performance was not as good.

Calm down people, it's one competition, the best skate won, does the margin really matter in the end? Chan could blow up in LA and someone off the radar could win. It happened last year.

Kozuka and Oda were really lowballed in the short program. There was a judge who gave Kozuka straight 6.0's and Oda straight 5.50's. Yes, Oda got 5.50 for skating skills.
And we are suppose to think the judging was fair here. So I think it's totally fair to complain that the judges aren't rewarding others.

I truly hope that Kozuka's medal here will cement him finally as a top guy worthy of good PCS.

 

[enlight78]

Watching Patrick and Kozuka while I think Patrick is superior, I think the marks should be a little closer. 70 in PCS for Kozuka was to low. He could have been a 73 and that would have been a little fairer.

My only feeling with Patrick is the suspician that he's getting tons of credit for everything he does well, but others aren't getting credit for what they do well.

For example, Abbott's transitions mark should be around where Chan's is. Kozuka's skating skills should be around where Chans' is. And I actually think Joubert is a better performer than Patrick.

Patrick maybe should have the best "all around PCS" but I just take issue when I see others getting lowballed. However, I think Daisuke is better at presentation than Chan is, but I'm not sure the judges would give it to them.

I'm okay with Chan's scores if I felt the judges weren't so stingy with others.

ITA. Judges are definitly generalizing the PCS.

 

[jcoates]

COP has its bright and its dark side, I'm sure of that! but wasn't one of its positive sides that it reflects that jumping isn't everything about skating??

Well said.

 

[Medusa]

Jeff won on TES, his PCS were lower than Brian's (not quite fairly, IMHO), and his GoEs were good, but moderate. I don't have any troubles with Jeff's victory - his scores were perfectly fine for a quadless skater. He nailed two perfect programs that I will remember for a long time.

This, however...

I was totally okay with Buttle's victory too. Joubert was arrogant, screwed it up royally by changing his jump layout throughout the program and loosing lots of points with that. Plus the heat of the battle got to him and he simplified footwork and spins.

Buttle was perfect for these days, everything fit. The score for him was good, but not over the top.

My only feeling with Patrick is the suspicion that he's getting tons of credit for everything he does well, but others aren't getting credit for what they do well.

Very well spoken.

 

[Okami]

Kozuka and Oda were really lowballed in the short program. There was a judge who gave Kozuka straight 6.0's and Oda straight 5.50's. Yes, Oda got 5.50 for skating skills.
And we are suppose to think the judging was fair here. So I think it's totally fair to complain that the judges aren't rewarding others.

Quoted for truth.

I truly hope that Kozuka's medal here will cement him finally as a top guy worthy of good PCS.

I hoped so after his GPF silver and good scores in the SP... But apparently the judges here were not moved by that accomplishment.

 

[figuristka]

Dodhiyel nice to see you again. Any idea if this will be shown at all on the french radio canada channel. Its rather confusing.?

 

[Spun Silver]

Well, the world record is still in the capable hands of Prince Daisuke. He scored 15 points higher overall at 4CC a year ago (he got a lot more on TES back then with 2 Triple Axels and 2 Quads).

Now when we see Patrick blow Daisuke away in PCS, I may agree with you. I love Daisuke and hope to God he's able to come back at the same level. He may be Patrick's main challenger. He and Brian. Now those are the three best men, to me. Not that others are not challenging, and always saving that hope for Johnny to do his best. But Kozuka and Oda and (God forbid) Evan are not yet up there. Maybe next season.

They need something to aspire to, after all, otherwise why improve (or even maintain)? If they're real competitors, they'll just get better.

PS: JMO! (Don't want to get stoned.)

 

[dancingqueen]

Congratulations to all the medallists !

I was predicting this men’s event by country this time which I’ve never done and the result was just as I predicted.

1. Canada
2 . USA
3. Japan

Evan must be jumping up and down around the room now.

 

[Hsuhs]

Calm down people, it's one competition, the best skate won, does the margin really matter in the end? Chan could blow up in LA and someone off the radar could win. It happened last year.

I disagree, it's not just one competition. It's TEB, Skate Canada and Canadians. There is a clear trend in there.

 

[Spun Silver]

I doubt it (Evan jumping around). Actually one thing I have to hand Evan is, he really wants to win and nothing but. At least that's my impression. That's what got him where he is.

 

[madibe]

I think this was really Evan's night. He proved that he his still a top contender for Worlds, and ironically, once again the third place finisher at U.S. Nationals is the top U.S. competitor at 4CC, as it was in the Ladies' competition.

Patrick Chan is a beautiful skater, but I'm uncomfortable with a quad-less, barely two triple-axeled teenager already being perceived as the standard-bearer for the sport. He skated a better long than this at TEB earlier this season and only received 156 and change. Here, he got positive GOE on every single jumping element except the flubbed loop in which he received 0 GOE. When has any other skater received positive GOE for a 1A-2T combination? I feel like the generosity he is given by the judges is not extended to any other skater. Like a poster said above, he is rewarded for the things he does well while others are not.

 

[samba]

Congratulations to all the medallists !

I was predicting this men’s event by country this time which I’ve never done and the result was just as I predicted.

1. Canada
2 . USA
3. Japan

Evan must be jumping up and down around the room now.

Yeah, congrats to all the medalists. Great performances. Special congrats to the Canadians, medalled in every disciplines . I'm sure it will be a good Oly. for the host.

 

[skatingbc]

I disagree, it's not just one competition. It's TEB, Skate Canada and Canadians. There is a clear trend in there.

Okay, seriously? He didn't have much competition at Nationals. Sorry Vaughn and Jeremy, but it's the truth. Skate Canada, no, he didn't skate well. Did many others though? No. I would say the same about TEB. He was only 3 points ahead of Kozuka after the long and Kozuka fell on an UR quad. I see the winning trend, but otherwise, I'm not so sure what you mean. If his winning is your issue, then I suggest you get over it.

 

[dancingqueen]

I doubt it (Evan jumping around). Actually one thing I have to hand Evan is, he really wants to win and nothing but. At least that's my impression. That's what got him where he is.

Really ? Maybe I had different impression of him.
In 2007 GPF, when he got bronze, he looked extremely happy , even though it was bronze I thought he was happy because he was placed as the top American in that event. You may be right. Since I'm not his fan , I don't know much about him,

Anyway, it's not a big deal.