Mens' LP | Page 16 | Golden Skate

Mens' LP

skatingbc, do you believe that Chan deserved positive GOE on every jump element for his LP here?

I've seen waxel and other single jumps receiving positive GOEs; waxel that opens up big mid air. If I remember correctly, Yu-na kim received positive GOEs for 1 lutz in 2008 worlds.

Chan's jumps in general have exquisite quality to them. His jumps, edge quality look amazing LIVE. There is something special about skaters who started figure skating from figures.
 
He won TEB in FRANCE!

With much lower scores.

Kozu won short program at GPF with much higher score, here his PCS dropped to 6s. Nobunari scored more in LP at Nebelhorn, where he popped his 3A, had two double axels, no quad attempt and stumbled in the footwork! Here suddenly their PCS/GoEs drop, while Chan's surge to record levels.

If all the skaters were evenly awarded for what they do well and Patrick still won, I don't think anybody would complain at all! It's not the placements that people have trouble with, it's just that some skaters suddenly stopped being rewarded for what they do well. They must feel the most frustrated of all. What can they do now?

...Chan-ge their programs before Worlds?
 
With much lower scores.

Kozu won short program at GPF with much higher score, here his PCS dropped to 6s. Nobunari scored more in LP at Nebelhorn, where he popped his 3A, had two double axels, no quad attempt and stumbled in the footwork! Here suddenly their PCS/GoEs drop, while Chan's surge to record levels.

If all the skaters were evenly awarded for what they do well and Patrick still won, I don't think anybody would complain at all! It's not the placements that people have trouble with, it's just that some skaters suddenly stopped being rewarded for what they do well. They must feel the most frustrated of all. What can they do now?

...Chan-ge their programs before Worlds?

Do you believe that skater should always get the same PCS scores no matter what or that they should get the scores they deserved for the way they skated?
 
Do you believe that skater should always get the same PCS scores no matter what or that they should get the scores they deserved for the way they skated?

I think inskate's point is that when they skated worse, they received higher PCS's than they did when they were up against Chan in this competition.
 
...Chan-ge their programs before Worlds?
Maybe some things do indeed need to be changed.
There is nothing bad about adjusting programs per se. But what exactly needs to be changed, and will those changes guarantee better chances medal-wise? That's what I'd love to know.

My mens fave is out till next season. But now I start to worry that his recipe for winning won't quite work once he's back.
 
Is this the way this sports should be? The judges control the results, over 60-70% of the total scores?

The rest is controlled by the technical specialist and his/her team.

I get the feeling this season that the judges are being more assertive in giving out GOEs and PCSs. The criticism in the past has been that the tech specialists ruled the whole competition with their calls, and the judges' opinions are kind of an irrelevant afterthought.

Maybe this is changing.
 
Maybe some things do indeed need to be changed.
There is nothing bad about adjusting programs per se. But what exactly needs to be changed, and will those changes guarantee better chances medal-wise? That's what I'd love to know.
That really is what I would love to know too. Both Nobu and Taka have COP-savvy programs, they have the jump quality, the edging, the speed, the excellent spins (though Nobu has the best I think). I love Taka's short program, it's my favourite of the season (well, I also have a weak spot for Joubert's). I think it's very unique in its elegant, subtle choreography, its zen-like feeling, his incredible edging - outstanding! I also think that Taka is very very musical. And the transitions are great, too.

I really don't know what else they can do. And 10 points PCS suggests that there is a lot to do.
 
Well, Evan placed the highest of all Americans here, while he was only 3rd in Nationals. I for one didn't expect him to do this well.

Evan does better when he's not the favorite to win, IMHO... he has something to prove to someone and that sort of pressure lights a fire under him... I have a feeling his third place at nationals left him angry - mainly at himself. He's coming back with a vengence. And Worlds is literally in his backyard next month. Watch out!
 
Abbott popped his quad to a double.

I find there to be something missing from his skating too - for me it looks like he's just doing the movements but not relating to them or showing any passion. Again, just an opinion.

For me, just my opinion, I don't enjoy Abbott's skating at all. I feel as you do, screech, he doesn't really relate to the music and/or choreography, just goes through the motions. I have a hard time understanding why so many are really enjoying his skating now. He had a great GP, but he's not a new kid on the block, and I look at his record and think "inconsistent." Apparently he embraces a goofy persona, but I find him just kind of strange ("I love kung fu?" Ok, whatever). Like this year's Weir, he needs a better haircut (tho I think Jeremy's had his a while), and although he can't help being pale, he has this really unhealthy-looking pallor to me. Maybe a little sun exposure wouldn't be a bad thing after a hard day at the rink!

Anyway, CONGRATULATIONS, Evan, I admire and respect your "fight" and way to go on the silver!
 
Evan does better when he's not the favorite to win, IMHO... he has something to prove to someone and that sort of pressure lights a fire under him... I have a feeling his third place at nationals left him angry - mainly at himself. He's coming back with a vengence. And Worlds is literally in his backyard next month. Watch out!
I do wish him well. And worlds beeing in Evan's home town is a huge plus, of course.
But I honestly thought Jeremy Abbott would outscore Evan here (based on how they both did in GP and Nats). And... it didn't happen :frown: And now I don't know what to expect of these two reg worlds placement.
 
"I love Kung Fu" is from the movie "Kung Fu Panda" a lot of guys his age quote it.

I loved Jeremy when I saw him in..... Portland (? I think) but in seniors I only enjoy his skating when he's on. otherwise the magic of skating isn't there... *Shrugs*
 
Congratulations to the Medalists!!

Happy for Evan. He really fought for that silver and good for him. His axel techinque still scares the crap out of me though.

Thrilled for Patrick and all of my Canadian boys. Especially for Vaughn. He had to be so mad at himself for the short and WOW!! BTW, we don't have the nickname Mr. Air Canada here in this house for Vaughn for nothing. :biggrin: Yes, he still needs to work on his presentation, but it's coming. The short's a great vehicle for him. Now they just have to find out something like that, that'll work for him in both programs for next year, but it is a step in the right direction for Vaughn.

Been keeping my eyes on him for a couple of years now and very happy for him the hard work is starting to pay off. :)

Feel so bad for Jeremy Abbott (I wish during the FS some had put either a T or an A for whichever Jeremy they were talking about. It got a bit confusing at times.), but considering the US Team literally just came off their Nationals and that's always a tough event...I'm willing to give all the Team some slack. Thought they all did great considering.

As for some of the reactions in here regarding Patrick's win...Allow me to quote from his interview w/Brenda Irving...

It's only skating. It's not life or death.

It's his levelheadedness that impresses me just as much about Patrick as his skating does. :)
 
I loved Jeremy when I saw him in..... Portland (? I think) but in seniors I only enjoy his skating when he's on. otherwise the magic of skating isn't there... *Shrugs*
I noticed that too. He is just like Weir in that aspect. Something goes wrong and their entire magic, flair, appeal (also speed and conviction) goes south.
 
Chan was beautiful today!
Evan came through, good for him!

I usually love Abbott's skating, but not when he's a) Sick and b) exhausted. I'm still wondering why his coaches let him come to 4CC in the first place. I guess to get a skate over soon to be Olympic Ice. Mroz also looked done in. I wonder if it was really worth it.
 
That really is what I would love to know too. Both Nobu and Taka have COP-savvy programs, they have the jump quality, the edging, the speed, the excellent spins (though Nobu has the best I think). I love Taka's short program, it's my favourite of the season (well, I also have a weak spot for Joubert's). I think it's very unique in its elegant, subtle choreography, its zen-like feeling, his incredible edging - outstanding! I also think that Taka is very very musical. And the transitions are great, too.

I really don't know what else they can do. And 10 points PCS suggests that there is a lot to do.

ITA.

Maybe some things do indeed need to be changed.
There is nothing bad about adjusting programs per se. But what exactly needs to be changed, and will those changes guarantee better chances medal-wise? That's what I'd love to know.

That's what I would like to know as well.

I think that both Nobu and Taka have, as Medusa said, excellent skills and it would be quite difficult to improve on them anymore.

I also love Taka's zen-like choreography and I can't see why it should be changed. There's one thing that I would like to change and it is the LP costume - it looks too much like pajamas for my taste. However, considering the monstrosities that some skaters wear, I strongly doubt that Taka was held on PCS because of the costume!
I don't know, maybe the judges find his programs Zzzz-like instead of zen-like. Shame on them if that's the case - I think it would be incredibly boring if everyone skated to the same kind of bombastic programs. And it's not like the audience does not appreciate Taka's programs.

Nobu might have been a bit handicapped choreography-wise. His programs were choreographed when he wasn't quite well both mentally and physically - and they might not match his current skills very well. I've seen him live at Nebelhorn and he really struggled there (stamina-wise). I thought he was about to die in the middle of the LP, and after the program ended he hadn't even put his skate guards on - just made a beeline for the bench and collapsed there. His programs were also more bare than later in the season, and he stumbled a lot. And, ironically, he scored one point higher in the LP than here at 4CC...

Nobu is actually going straight to Lori Nichol after this competition to work on his programs. Hopefully they will be fixed more to the judges liking. But, again, it's not like his programs scored disastrously so far - his SP especially was very much praised by the commentators. I'd like him to stop slick his hair back, but like Taka's pajamas, I don't think that cheesy hairdo should have much influence on the scores.

Choreo fixage, Takajamas and Nobu-do aside, I don't really see much need for improvement... Unless the judges just really want to see the programs with more "Oomph" and "Ta-Da!".
 
That really is what I would love to know too. Both Nobu and Taka have COP-savvy programs, they have the jump quality, the edging, the speed, the excellent spins (though Nobu has the best I think). I love Taka's short program, it's my favourite of the season (well, I also have a weak spot for Joubert's). I think it's very unique in its elegant, subtle choreography, its zen-like feeling, his incredible edging - outstanding! I also think that Taka is very very musical. And the transitions are great, too.

I really don't know what else they can do. And 10 points PCS suggests that there is a lot to do.

The fact that they don't get 9's in PCs also says there is a lot they could. I look at figure skating like dancers on ice. If you seen some good dance shows or professional dancers you will understand there is a lot they could do. Yes, this ice and stamina vs jumps etc set up obsticals dancers don't have to deal with Chan show that complex choreagraphy can work. Doing complex choreography well also highlights other skills. If I had levels for complex choreography out of 5 I would say Chan is a 4, Abbot 3.5,Evan 3, Kozuka 2.75, Oda 2.5, Vaughn2.0, Gao 0.5
 
Evan does better when he's not the favorite to win, IMHO... he has something to prove to someone and that sort of pressure lights a fire under him... I have a feeling his third place at nationals left him angry - mainly at himself. He's coming back with a vengence. And Worlds is literally in his backyard next month. Watch out!

ITA!! He'll be a force to be reckoned with - as usual. He certainly has the respect of his fellow competitors, who, I think, never count him out!
 
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