Male Skaters and their coaches

[blue dog]

This thread was inspired by a discussion in the Bebe thread. Frank Carroll and his team have had many successes at the senior level. However, some wonder why Tim had left so quickly after he started to have difficulty with his once-easy quads. Some speculate that he was dumped unceremoniously in favour of Evan (leaving some to dislike Evan), or...

It seems to me, however, that male skaters tend to stick around longer than female skaters once they begin having problems. One person cited the example of Chris Bowman being with Frank even after all of the problems (now perhaps that was why Frank was so quick to dismiss Tim; he didn't want those problems all over again?).

 

[Tinymavy15]

I cannot pretend to know anything about the whole Tim/Evan situation...I am thinking that Frank Carroll wanted to take on Evan as his full-time student and hand Tim over to Ken...which Tim did not want.
I agree that male skaters seem to stay put longer than their female counterparts. exception to the rule is of course Brian Joubert who changes coaches once a year now it seems.

 

[Tonichelle]

Well, in Chris' case everyone knew why he was having problems. Frank said in interviews after Chris passed on that he held on longer than many thought he should have, but he was trying to get through to Bowman.

With Tim I honestly feel Frank was tired of the "excuses" and went for the bright young soon to be star of Evan... that's just how I felt. Considering everything that was and wasn't said in interviews when he sent Tim over to Audrey, that's just the impression I was left with. At that point and time I wasn't into Evan at all (he was getting a lot of hype on GS and elsewhere in those days, how the times have turned people against him *sigh*) and a die hard Tim... Tim's SP in Portland was the last bright moment for me with Tim... everything else just seemed half hearted and he's so disenchanted with teh sport anymore.


Scott Hamilton wrote in his book of a similar situation with him and Scott Cramer both taking from Carlo Fassi. They were rivals and Hamilton felt Fassi was favoring 'the other Scott' so he left to train with Don Laws. We all know what happened after that.

I think girls are coddled more, where the guys - even in skating - aren't by their coaches. Just seems that way to me.

 

[Swamismom]

My son has a tough as nails female dance coach and there isnt enough money in the world to make him leave her.She has his absolute respect and pushes him to do his best no matter what.They clicked from the get go.She works him and all her other students hard and takes no excuses but is right there with congrats when they do well.My younger son is the same way with his coach as well no amount of money will make him part with her.When it clicks it clicks.

 

[Spun Silver]

That sounds ideal. You must be pretty tough and inspiring yourself with two ice-dancing boys! Hats off to you.

You have a son named Swami?

 

[Dodhiyel]

When things happen in the skating world, such as splits between skaters and coaches, there is often far more to it than meets the eye. Some of that leaks to boards, but a great deal does not. Because of this, there is always a lot of pure speculation, much of which is way off base. I would not blame Frank Carroll at all for the split with Tim Goebel, and I do not think for one moment that he was merely trading Tim in for a likelier prospect.

Tim, if I recall correctly, had reportedly been through about 13 pairs of boots just before the split, unable to find a pair that felt right to him. The reason given at the time for his performance level dropping was "boot problems".

 

[Tonichelle]

yes and the "boot problems" led to "injuries"

I'm not doubting he was having those problems, but it was obvious in the last year that Evan was taking up more attention from Frank than Tim was...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

After his best skate ever in 2003 Worlds, he developed the misallignmnet in his spine and missed 2004 Nats and consequently Worlds. Johnny was now emerging; Tim returned in 2005 Nats with boot problems. I believe his spine problem had a lot to do with the boot problem. He did skate in 2006 Nats but did not place, and he left skating at that point. Johnny was now the front runner and even Michael was soon to take a bow in 2007. I think I got that right but please correct

His fame was basically the Quad which after the missalignment and boot problem, he lost it. Sad.

How much all this has to do with Carroll, I dunno. Only guesses from what I read.

.

 

[Tonichelle]

Joe, except for Mike (who retired in 06 after barely missing the Olympic team) you got it!

 

[Dee4707]

After his best skate ever in 2003 Worlds, he developed the misallignmnet in his spine and missed 2004 Nats and consequently Worlds.

This is what I remembered too about the misallignment.

His fame was basically the Quad

Tim's fame was the quad and bronze medal at the 02 Olympics. Which I thought he deserved the silver medal but I guess that would be another discussion.

which after the missalignment and boot problem, he lost it . Sad.

So why would a current coach send him to another coach...to me that's confusing.

How much all this has to do with Carroll, I dunno. Only guesses from what I read.

I am the one who blames Carroll for tossing Tim aside and because of it my dislike for both Carroll and Evan.

 

[Tonichelle]

I am another who tends to lean that Frank had a lot to do with Tim leaving... but I don't take my frustration out on Evan

Something caused Tim to leave the sport, and I don't think it was injury because he seems to be really... *bitter* in articles/interviews...

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

I'm sure Tim won the Silver in 2002 Olys, but it's not important in this thread.

He didn't leave skating after Carroll, he went to Audrey W. No? and she was of no help,

I saw him at MidAtlantics last summer and he looked very business like, like he moved on. Smiled a lot with people he knew. Looked very collegiate.

 

[skatingbc]

I don't know much about this situation but could it be similar to what happened between Joannie Rochette and her coach Manon Perron?
I guess Joannie was having attitude problems and Manon "fired" her essentially. Joannie spent a year with another coach, cleaned up her act and Manon took her on again as a student. Look how well that turned out!

 

[Kasey]

I'm sure Tim won the Silver in 2002 Olys, but it's not important in this thread.
.

I'm sure Plushenko would be intrigued to know that.

 

[Tonichelle]

Tim *should* have been 2nd at the Olympics, but Plushenko was given silver. 2002 was just disappointing all the way around.

and yes Tim went to Audrey on Franks "suggestion" (according to their press rounds that year)

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Tim *should* have been 2nd at the Olympics, but Plushenko was given silver. 2002 was just disappointing all the way around.

and yes Tim went to Audrey on Franks "suggestion" (according to their press rounds that year)

You're correct Toni. I keep mixing up memory of 2002 with 2003.

Don't forget, press releases are carefully worded. One of my first jobs.

btw, Joannie's case is quite interesting in her going back to the coach she left.

 

[Tonichelle]

Joe - that's why I had suggestion in quotation marks...

 

[Dee4707]

Tim *should* have been 2nd at the Olympics, but Plushenko was given silver. 2002 was just disappointing all the way around.

Except for Alexei....right Toni???

 

[seniorita]

Why tim should have gotten the silver?he was 3rd in Sp in front of plushenko, he skated after plushenko in Lp so they could have marked him higher, their marks in Lp were not even close.

 

[Tonichelle]

Plushenko was held up, he was far from clean.

Alexei wasn't disappointing, that's true, Dee... but with the pairs scandal, and the wonky judging in the men's... and B/K falling in the FD... I was disappointed...

Seeing Scott Hamilton skating in the closing ceremonies was my highlight of the games, if that gives you an idea of how I saw it lol