Sure they have why wouldn't they.
Stéphane Lambiel: "I’m a little bit crazy"
- Thread starter NatachaHatawa
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- Mar 25, 2008
I have no insight as to USFS's decisions... 
If there are full protocols, I'd appreciate a link, the earlier one looks incomplete to me - it's like the live update you get from the ISU during an event: PCS are listed in full but for tech there is only the TES, with no breakdown of the elements.
Or am I missing something?
If there are full protocols, I'd appreciate a link, the earlier one looks incomplete to me - it's like the live update you get from the ISU during an event: PCS are listed in full but for tech there is only the TES, with no breakdown of the elements.
Or am I missing something?
- Joined
- Jul 11, 2003
Buttercup - I presume you mean different judges - different scores.
I am aware of the different perceptions of beauty. However, there is a standard. In the Dance world, all Swan Queens are not equal although they all do the same steps. Eventually, one emerges as the 'best' for that role until another comes along.
Yagudin, for me, did a great SP and LP in 2002, and deserved all the praise he received, but it was his only great performance. Prior to that Oly, there did not appear to be anything special. As a showman later, he was nothing more than a cocky performer for me.
Plushenko never got to me so my take on him is just that he showed off his jumps and mugged the audience. His 2006 Olys was very dreary and that is the consensus of most critics.
You have to understand that the standard on any given skating board is mostly based on nationality and not on the percepion of beauty.
Ah, so much for beautiful skating, and then there is Lambiel.
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- Mar 25, 2008
Thanks! I didn't see all of US Nats so I can't really offer an opinion as to the judging - by the time I watched, I was already aware of the results so I didn't have a chance to form my own thoughts independent of that. It's also hard for me to say whether Evan desrved better because I'm usually not really into his performances.
But all credit to Evan for trying - he had the highest base value for the SP and would've had a much higher base value and TES in the LP had his quad not been downgraded. I'm not saying he was not judged fairly, and I realize he's not great on the 4T and often URs them, but I appreciate his giving it a shot.
Joe, I disagree. People's different perceptions of beauty mean that it's an extremely difficult thing to quantify and try to assess objectively. I don't think there's one standard. There may be cultural preferences, personal preferences etc., and while some forms of art may appeal to more people, it's very hard to say objectively "this is beautiful". All you can say is "this is beautiful to me" or "many people find this beautiful". It's not an exact science. The evaluation of Swan queens which you used as an example is also subjective, and may differ based on who's judging, on what the concept is for that specific interpretation fo Swan Lake, or on the culture in which it is performed.Joesitz said:
The best thing is probably to try and see if you can get reliability between different judges; if their assessments are similar, you can use that to make a stronger statement about the artistic appeal of something. But it's still better to break it down into different marks (e.g. originality, innovativeness, interpretation, elegance, etc.) and not just try to shoot for an absolute, abstract thing like "beautiful" (or even "creative").
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- Jul 11, 2003
Buttercup - I am agreeing with you that there is no standard of beauty in figure skating. It's much too nationalistic with the fans and the judges too. Figure Skating can only be an art form when it is presented in a show, and let's face it will never play more than one night in any arena even when it is very popular.
However, most of the ardent fans love it, no matter.
I do believe the CoP's PC scores do favor skaters who are not the most artistic as well as those who are. There really is no difference in the scoring.
However, most of the ardent fans love it, no matter.
I do believe the CoP's PC scores do favor skaters who are not the most artistic as well as those who are. There really is no difference in the scoring.
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- Oct 31, 2006
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There's no need to try and stir up controversy that's not even there. Stephane never said that Jeremy Abbott was specifically "held up". For all we know, he could have been on a tangent mentioning Nationals and then in that comment he may have been referring to a different event, like Europeans. Who really knows with the way journalists edit interviews and articles? Lambiel never specifically named any athlete besides Lysacek, so he could have been referring to Brandon Mroz, who also finished ahead of Lysacek, or like I said, he may have went off on a tangent about the Europeans results between Joubert and Contesti. We'll never know because specifics were never given and nevertheless, Stephane is just as entitled to his opinions as we all are. No harm found. Lambiel did mention that he believed he was held up before and he did say that he thought that it wasn't right.
He does not imply that at all, IMO. He is saying that "to the naked eye", what Evan did may have appeared enough to win if one were just looking at the difficulty aspect of his jump layout. The new judging system, however, examines and dissects all the in-between skating as well as the jumps, and especially the QUALITY of how these moves were performed. Stephane is not a judge and I think maybe what he is getting at is that a spectator has to have a certain knowledge about the specifics of the sport in the way that a judge does in order to sometimes understand the outcome/results of a competition. It's not always as easy as who fell down and who didn't. It can get confusing because we also have to thoroughly examine all of the in-between skating, count all the rotations of a spin and if the skater maintained the correct position throughout the spin, count all the seconds positions are held during a spiral sequence, examine if the skater has transitional moves in the fields into and out of their jumps, spins, and footwork, examine if the jumps have correct edge entries and full rotations or not, etc. I think he is speaking "in general" terms that the sport is sometimes difficult to comprehend for the general public, not just about US Nationals specifically, which is why he never did provide specific examples. His frustration is directed at the judging system, not at the results of any specific competition, I think.
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- Joined
- May 17, 2008
I agree. And I agree that he also mentioned “ sometimes it looks too weird. “
And yet people often state things as if their point of view is the only acceptable point of view , as if it’s a fact.
I doubt Stephane would say something like “ he could win with what he did “without watching who actually won. I don’t think he only watched Johnny and Evan.
He didn’t mention the winner by name doesn’t necessarily mean he didn’t watch it.
But I agree with what you are saying about Stephane saying that " the people being held up/undermarked comment was more of a general complaint in regard to the system."
You are going by scores which, as we can see from the article , Stephane doesn’t trust the judges, the system and the scores.
He said “ Judges sometimes can do weird things “
I think he is simply stating his feelings about performances from how he feels, not based on the judging system , the judges and scores.
He is watching performances.
About what Stephane said that Evan “ could win with what he did,” I don’t agree with that part.
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- Mar 25, 2008
In all fairness to Stephane, he also noted that PCS scores were used to keep him in the mix when he screwed up (2008 Euros). Maybe he doesn't think his 2007-8 GPF scoring was problematic.
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As a fan of Lambiel and Takahashi, I saw no problem with the 07-08 GPF results. Stephane's programs were better constructed than Daisuke's I thought and Lambiel had the edge on spins, footwork, and program components. Also, Lambiel did a SP which included a 3Axel, 4toe+3toe, and 3Lutz, yet he placed 2nd to Takahashi who didn't perform a quad in the SP. The final result was so close points-wise at the end that it was a toss-up between gold and silver that just happened to slightly swing to Stephane's edge. I realize some fans who were just paying attention to jumps "had a cow" when Lambiel edged Takahashi, which caused some controversy. I kind of wondered if this played a big role in Daisuke's highly inflated scores at 4CC later that season, a competition which he very much deserved to win. Speaking of these two makes me really sad that both are out of action this season. I'll be so glad to see them skate again in any capacity!
- Joined
- Dec 15, 2003
found a new video showing the humours side of him.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLSX47XQwKo
Tango
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQnOgubK_OQ
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XLSX47XQwKo
Tango
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BQnOgubK_OQ
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So he's hypocritic about it.
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- Oct 31, 2006
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How in the world is he a hypocrite for taking what the judges awarded him? What an absurd accusation! If you're still holding a grudge over past results, then blame the judges, not Lambiel as he had no control over the results.
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- Jul 11, 2003
I would really have liked to hear him singing that tune in Portuguese which I am sure he was doing.
The second one, well, can the other senior men skate like that?
Lambiel is unique
You are absolutely right but no editing was here actually.
I think he really wanted to talk about the system, and I wasn't attentive enough to this, when he said that "figure skating is sick". Then we talked about Euros, I mentioned American Nationals mostly because of Johnny, as there are friends, and his first reaction was also about Johnny. I don't think he meant to say something about Abbot, his words about system were more general, about new system not on specific competition. It's just he recalled he wanted to talk about it when we were still talking about American Nationals. And he started to see it from another angle because he is a regular spectator now, he is "from outside". When he was "inside", he just didn't watch others at all, so he couldn't even compare.
Thank you for all the comments, it was very interesting to read.
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- Jul 11, 2003
One thing all fans should note: There is no ART in the PC scores. They are component scores to the technical already scored. You figure?
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- Jun 27, 2003
reut - first off welcome to Golden Skate - post often, post long! 
and second - were you the author of the interview? 
and second - were you the author of the interview? reut - first off welcome to Golden Skate - post often, post long!
Thank you for the welcome.
and second - were you the author of the interview?
Yes.
I was rather interested to read some feedback, and I want to thank you all again for the comments you wrote.And I agree that maybe it's not always clear what exactly Stephane meant. The problem you don't always notice it when you're talking, and afteward it's a bit late...
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