Stéphane Lambiel: "I’m a little bit crazy"

[Mathman]

One thing all fans should note: There is no ART in the PC scores. They are component scores to the technical already scored. You figure?

Not exaclty. The TES (total element scores), and their attendant GOEs, are for three things only: jumps, spins, and footwork/spirals.

The first two PCSs, skating skills and transitions, are where skaters get points for their technique on other aspects of skating, such as steps, turns, stroking, ice coverage and moves in the field like split jumps and Ina Bauers between highlight elements. These things are "technical" but they have not already been graded in the TES (only jumps, spins and footwork/spirals are.)

The "art" -- I know you don't like that word, so let's say "perfpormance" -- aspects of the program are scored separately in the last three Program Component Scores: Performance/execution, choreography and interpretation.

As I read Lambiel's complaint, it is that the judges tend to give the same scores across the board. If the CoP were working right, we would see more skaters geting 5.25 in skating skills but 7.75 in choreography, if that was apporpriate for a particular performance. But that isn't happening.

Lambiel: I still don’t understand how they call components: Usually all the marks in the components are almost the same. It’s not logical!

Instead of really judging the quality of a skater's performance, Stephane is saying that the judges are cheating by using the Component Scores to hold up their favorites and hold down the ones they don't like.

Lambiel: (Even though I have benefitted sometimes) you can’t use components to push up someone and to put down someone else!

It happens also when some non-famous skater performs a very good program and doesn’t get components he deserves only because he is not famous. This is why I don’t like this system, because it’s easier to cheat with it.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Well, he's blasting himself as well as others so his comments are applicable to the CoP.

I realize there is a modicum of "Art" or better to say, "Performance", in the CoP.but it is wrapped up in more major headings. Unlike the 6.0 system where one got the scores of the opinions of the judges for performance. This, of course, was subjective, and the CoP wanted to quantify what they believed as the whole performance. Given the headings of the breakdown of the PC scores, in the protocols, can one really say, anything positive about performance? I think not, and what the other headings contain is a rehash of the GoEs in the Technical. JMO
So, I am with Lambiel on this.

 

[mycelticblessing]

^ I don't see anything hypocritical. Lambiel admits he has been held up at times, but that doesn't make it right.

I think what makes it seems hypocritical about it, is that he only mentioned it after retirement. When the judges 'held him up', there was no complaint.

While there's no way he could have criticised the judges overmarking him while he was still a competitive skater, why bother talking about it now? Everyone knows that 'holding up' certain skaters happen.

 

[reut]

I think what makes it seems hypocritical about it, is that he only mentioned it after retirement. When the judges 'held him up', there was no complaint.

I think he explained it very well in the interview: he actually never had a chance to compare, he never watched performances of others. And now, during this season, he had chance to watch all this from outside. And this is what he noticed.

And more than that he said explicitly that to "hold him up" was as wrong as with any other skater. I think that last thing I can say about Stephane, in general, as a person, is him being hypocritical, in any circumstances.

 

[Hsuhs]

I think what makes it seems hypocritical about it, is that he only mentioned it after retirement. When the judges 'held him up', there was no complaint.

While there's no way he could have criticised the judges overmarking him while he was still a competitive skater, why bother talking about it now? Everyone knows that 'holding up' certain skaters happen.

Yeah, exactly.

 

[chuckm]

IIRC, Lambiel complained at 2008 Worlds after the SP that his PCS scores were low.....

 

[Buttercup]

Oh, please. I've never heard any skater say "I was overmarked" in real time. I have never read an interview with any active skater along the lines of "I was held up with the PCS" right after an event. The closest I know of is Dai saying after 2008 4CC that it's hard to compare scoring between events and his record breaking score didn't mean he was necessarily better than Plushenko. Commenting on problems in the system is very difficult for an active skater - it opens you to a lot of criticism. Complaining about the judges is stupid and counterproductive so long as you are skating competitively. And Stephane Lambiel is not an idiot.

Give Stephane a break. He's an amazing skater, he worked hard, and he gave us wonderful, entertaining programs. Are people arguing Stephane Lambiel of all people was regularly overmarked in his career? His PB is lower than that of Chan, Oda, Buttle, Dai and Joubert. Enough already.

Reut, thanks for the interview and for dropping by to discuss it. Do you have anything to share that didn't make it into the final version?

 

[dancingqueen]

I mentioned American Nationals mostly because of Johnny, as there are friends, and his first reaction was also about Johnny.

Thank you for asking him about it. As a huge fan of Johnny, it’s nice to hear his friend Stephane’s thoughts about Nationals, and that he was concerned about Johnny, and felt badly for him, understanding his situation and talked about his view of the judging system.

As you are the interviewer, it's nice to hear your thoughts and impressions about the interview and Stephane.

 

[reut]

Reut, thanks for the interview and for dropping by to discuss it. Do you have anything to share that didn't make it into the final version?

Actually there is one more part of this interview on AS, which was used by us as a teaser for the interview itself:
http://www.absoluteskating.com/interviews/2009stephane_bruno_patrick.htm
Less "conventional" one, I'd say. Hope you enjoy it.

Almost everything is in the interview, I tried to mention every detail we talked about as this article was for AS and there is a very active Stephane's thread there. I knew it would be interesting for people.

So concerning facts everything is there, I think. Concerning impressions and feelings: for me personally his retirement was hard. And somewhere in the bottom of my heart I wanted to believe that he'll come back. After this talk I understood he won't. Well, first he just can't, 'cause he can be maximum 40 minutes on the ice before the pain starts again. But also he just doesn't need it anymore. He loves skating for himself, challenging himself, he loves shows and public, he doesn't need more competitions. He is really happy with what he has now. And that's great, that's the most important.

I really liked how warmly he talked about his colleagues, other skaters. I remember we had discussion once that other skaters are saying good words about him and he never does the same. But actually you can see that he does, maybe it's just usually cut from his interviews? I don't know.

And, well, the bottom line: he is extremely nice, attentive and interesting person. I really enjoyed talking to him.

 

[reut]

Thank you for asking him about it. As a huge fan of Johnny, it’s nice to hear his friend Stephane’s thoughts about Nationals, and that he was concerned about Johnny, and felt badly for him, understanding his situation and talked about his view of the judging system.

Actually I don't think that he thinks that only system was "responsible" to what happened to Johnny. But, yes, it was really nice how he mentioned Johnny, with lots of empathy. And I didn't ask about Johnny specifically, he mentioned him first.

 

[figuristka]

Thank you reut for the other part of the interview. The song's are lovely and i can see how they relate to Stephane and his skating. I really respect him alot. I love skaters such as Stephane who have an artistic soul, and can really show this when they skate.

 

[dancingqueen]

Actually I don't think that he thinks that only system was "responsible" to what happened to Johnny. But, yes, it was really nice how he mentioned Johnny, with lots of empathy. And I didn't ask about Johnny specifically, he mentioned him first.

Only Stephane knows how he feels for sure, but I was just glad to hear his kind words about Johnny. Maybe his mind was mixture of many things besides the judging system when he talked about Nationals.

Also great to hear Stephane sounds really happy right now.

 

[museksk8r]

Oh, please. I've never heard any skater say "I was overmarked" in real time. I have never read an interview with any active skater along the lines of "I was held up with the PCS" right after an event. The closest I know of is Dai saying after 2008 4CC that it's hard to compare scoring between events and his record breaking score didn't mean he was necessarily better than Plushenko. Commenting on problems in the system is very difficult for an active skater - it opens you to a lot of criticism. Complaining about the judges is stupid and counterproductive so long as you are skating competitively. And Stephane Lambiel is not an idiot.

Give Stephane a break. He's an amazing skater, he worked hard, and he gave us wonderful, entertaining programs. Are people arguing Stephane Lambiel of all people was regularly overmarked in his career? His PB is lower than that of Chan, Oda, Buttle, Dai and Joubert. Enough already.

I totally agree with your entire post, Buttercup! Thank you, voice of reason. :agree:

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Let's face it, Stephane Lambiel is the Johnny Depp of Figure Skating. :thumbsup::thumbsup::thumbsup:

 

[dancingqueen]

Johnny Depp is a deep thinker and Lambiel is more of a feeling person. They are different to me. IMO.

 

[Mathman]

I realize there is a modicum of "Art" or better to say, "Performance", in the CoP, but it is wrapped up in more major headings...

Given the headings of the breakdown of the PC scores, in the protocols, can one really say, anything positive about performance? I think not, and what the other headings contain is a rehash of the GoEs in the Technical.

After a considerable amount of study, I have made my peace with the "Skating Skills" component (though I think the ISU could find a name for this that is less of a catch-all.)

Now the one that bugs me the most is "Performance/Execution." To me, "execution" sounds a lot like tech, while "performance" is more like, um, performance.

Then we read descriptions telling us that execution refers to how well the skater translated the intent of the choreography, while choreography in turn is supposed to reflect the character of the music and the intent of the composer.

Then there is "interpretation."

I can't really blame a judge who says to himself, well, that was kind of pretty, I guess I'll give that a 6.75 across the board in the three components.

 

[shine]

Sigh, I love Stephane so much, both his skating and the person he is. He's so charismatic but so honest and down-to-earth at the same time. I think there is a reason why he's one of the most widely beloved and least criticized skaters of all time. I think he's a deep thinker as well as a very emotional, sensitive person, the combination makes him very special.

 

[GiuliaPlum]

Sigh, I love Stephane so much, both his skating and the person he is. He's so charismatic but so honest and down-to-earth at the same time. I think there is a reason why he's one of the most widely beloved and least criticized skaters of all time. I think he's a deep thinker as well as a very emotional, sensitive person, the combination makes him very special.

shine on you crazy Lambiel


I've just noticed this: http://www.dallasnews.com/sharedcontent/dws/spt/olympics/stories/021309dnspoolycolumn.32e0fdb.html

p.s. Oh no, why did I do that?

 

[Mathman]

Oh no, why did I do that?

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

Give Stephane a break. He's an amazing skater, he worked hard, and he gave us wonderful, entertaining programs. Are people arguing Stephane Lambiel of all people was regularly overmarked in his career? His PB is lower than that of Chan, Oda, Buttle, Dai and Joubert. Enough already.

He was hardly just an entertainer. He won 2 World Championships or would you rather forget that, What was Dai's PB in 2005?