Mens' LP

[snowflake]

I just watched Nobunari Oda and Denis Ten finally and I have to say I am very impressed with Oda's quad and Denis's talent!!

Agree on both. I'm watching Oda right now. He got zero for his 3-2-2 as it was his fourth combination. Grrrrr...Oda. And why jump into the sideboards? Next year in olympics, please do everything right.......

 

[NatachaHatawa]

And I didn't know Brian worked with Tarasova, unless I'm reading it wrong

Tatiana choreographes Brian's 04/05 programs (1492 and BMG). Althought they haven't worked together since, Tatiana ADORES Brian. I doubt that they'll work together again though.

 

[Mathman]

So it's Lysacek ....

I guess Lysacek is the new Yagudin!

In Germany we would say "Super-GAU"...

I learned a new word!

However, I will give [Patrick Chan] the benefit of the doubt because the more I think of it, the more I suspect that he was encouraged in this by Skate Canada officials...

I do not understand what Skate Canada would gain by encouraging Patrick to act like a fool and bring a ton of criticism down on himself.

 

[Buttercup]

My impression (just that I've done no systematic study) is that the quadsters have one or two good performances a season but they can't guarantee that that will happen at worlds. if you rated all the mens LPs this season, what would the top three performances be?

I didn't notice your question when I first replied. The events in which I watched the men's LP this year are CoC, CoR, GPF, US Nationals and Euros. I saw bits and pieces from some of the others on Youtube but as a rule prefer not to judge performances based on tiny, fuzzy videos. From the events I saw on TV, I believe the best LPs were Jeremy Abbott's at CoC and at GPF, and Yannick Ponsero's at Euros.

ETA: Mathman, I don't get it either, but they clearly seemed to be joining in on the fun and encouraging him to continue. Maybe to stir up interest? Or to create an impression of wuzrobbing if Joubert were to finish ahead of Chan, here or in Vancouver? Honestly, I can make little sense of it, but it didn't seem like Patrick got up one morning and decided the time had come to act like a jerk.

 

[museksk8r]

From the events I saw on TV, I believe the best LPs were Jeremy Abbott's at CoC and at GPF, and Yannick Ponsero's at Euros.

Those 3 LP performances are my favorites of the entire season, too. It's really sad to me that both Abbott and Ponsero weren't able to summon that magic again at Worlds. I really hope their Olympic seasons bring much better luck!

 

[bekalc]

ETA: Mathman, I don't get it either, but they clearly seemed to be joining in on the fun and encouraging him to continue. Maybe to stir up interest? Or to create an impression of wuzrobbing if Joubert were to finish ahead of Chan, here or in Vancouver? Honestly, I can make little sense of it, but it didn't seem like Patrick got up one morning and decided the time had come to act like a jerk.

Yes... But I'm really tired of it. The funny thing is that the whole situation is making me root for Joubert more. Maybe it was poor sportsmanship a year ago for Joubert to complain about the quad. But that was a year ago. Chan and Skate Canada took this thing though to a completely new and ugly level. And Brian in response, he's acted admirably. So did Evan who refused to go on the whole gain up on Joubert.

I don't know why Scott thinks it's a good idea to hammer on Joubert anyways. I mean doesn't he realize the money making machine Joubert could be on SOI.

 

[evangeline]

Yes... But I'm really tired of it. The funny thing is that the whole situation is making me root for Joubert more. Maybe it was poor sportsmanship a year ago for Joubert to complain about the quad. But that was a year ago. Chan and Skate Canada took this thing though to a completely new and ugly level. And Brian in response, he's acted admirably. So did Evan who refused to go on the whole gain up on Joubert.

I don't know why Scott thinks it's a good idea to hammer on Joubert anyways. I mean doesn't he realize the money making machine Joubert could be on SOI.

Since there's no convenient Russian or Eastern European skater to scapegoat, I guess Joubert is Scott's new target as he's not one of his favourites or North American. You don't see Scott hammering on Lysacek, anyways, despite his dubious PCS.

 

[Wrlmy]

But isn't artistry subjective?... I mean there's something to be said for someone who performs for the audience. When I think of no artistry I think of someone like Goebel who had no charisma and couldn't really even perform to the crowd.

Or someone like Rachael Flatt who is flatt. Personally I don't need all skaters to be alike for me to enjoy them....If everyone was balletic like it would be really boring. Not everyone is going to be John Curry, but I don't think that's a crime either, because if everyone was like that this sport would be cookie cutter.

Perhaps that's why artistry isn't necessarily the "right word" and presentation is a better word.

I refuse to feel I have a crap taste just because I enjoy Brian.

 

[bekalc]

I refuse to feel I have a crap taste just because I enjoy Brian.

Yeah... Frank Carroll after the short program gave this really classy response where he said he had no issue with Brian Joubert's PCS that they were basically tied with Evan's anyways. And he talked about Joubert is a wonderful skater.

 

[BBI*CEO]

I really enjoyed Samuel Contesti's western number - he made a competition long program feel like a fun exhibition number - that's a talent in and of itself!! Really fun, and great sense of humour!!

 

[Mathman]

Doesn't a quad(if fully rotated) with a fall still give more points than an average triple? And the same with 3-axel versus 2-axel?

If so, there is not that big risk.

As others have pointed out, in the most recent rules changes they carefully arranged it so that a fall on a quad ciunts exactly the same as a triple.

4T = 9.8 - 4.8 GOE -1.0 deduction = 4.0 (same as base for 3T)

4S = 10.3 - 4.8 -1.0 = 4.5 (same as base fro 3S)

For a triple Axel, you actually end up with fewer points for a fall on a triple than for a satisfactory double.

3A = 8.2 - 4.2 - 1.0 = 3.0, compared to 2A = 3.5.

 

[goldfinch]

I just had a realization.

At last year's Worlds, Johnny Weir secured the US men 3 spots for this worlds.

And Evan occupied that 3rd spot this year.

So, Evan is World Champion because of Johnny.

Using that same logic, Johnny will have a chance to go to the Olympics because of Evan.

 

[museksk8r]

I refuse to feel I have a crap taste just because I enjoy Brian.

Of course you don't and shouldn't feel that way. Different fans and judges prefer different styles of skaters. There is no cookie cutter definition for artistry and we all can agree or disagree on what qualifies as good artistry. Variety is the spice of life, after all.

 

[Mathman]

I think this should be Joubert's jumping plan all next year. He should aim for two quads and only go for the third quad IF he's far behind or someone scored really big... Or he made a slight mistake etc.

Quad toe
Quad salchow
Triple axel/triple toe
triple axel
triple lutz/double toe
triple loop/double toe/double loop
triple lutz
triple flip. (replace with a salchow if he's getting !)

This should be his plan and lay out.. IF he is far behind and thinks he needs it than replace the first triple lutz with a quad toe (but hopefully put the combination first.)

If Brian or anyone else could do this, he would win every time out. I don't think he can (nor can anyone else out there.) Note that this is a 9 triple/quad program.

In Brian's lay-out (on paper) of his planned jump elements, he was something like fifteen points ahead of Lysacek. When it came to the actual skating, it didn't work out that way.

Neither Brian nor anyone else can win with pie-in-the-sky fantasy. (JMO )

 

[TripletA]

Both Buttle and Lysacek are winners by default - because the other top guys with quads didn't bring it.

No one wins by default ever. Unless every single person is perfect and the best skater wins you cannot win by default. Part of skating is hitting when it matters. Evan hit when it mattered.

 

[snowflake]

No, in the most recent rules changes they carefully arranged it so that a fall on a quad ciunts exactly the same as a triple.

4T = 9.8 - 4.8 GOE -1.0 deduction = 4.0 (same as base for 3T)

4S = 10.3 - 4.8 -1.0 = 4.5 (same as base fro 3S)

For a triple Axel, you actually end up with fewer points for a fall on a triple than for a satisfactory double.

3A = 8.2 - 4.2 - 1.0 = 3.0, compared to 2A = 3.5.

Thanks for the explanation. Anyway, not too risky to try a quad or a 3-axel if you are doing it in practice.

 

[oxade21]

The way things are going I don't think we need to separate singles disciplines anymore. Mens and Ladies must be combined. I don't see big difference content wise.
And while we are at that we should re-title competition to " Singles Ice Dancing". It's about transitions and choreography these days.

 

[bekalc]

The way things are going I don't think we need to separate singles disciplines anymore. Mens and Ladies must be combined. I don't see big difference content wise.
And while we are at that we should re-title competition to " Singles Ice Dancing". It's about transitions and choreography these days.

Well Mao IS kind of special for the women with the triple axels. But heck Mao is hoping for eventually two 3/3's, something her male triple axel counterparts aren't going for. :lol:

 

[Mathman]

I get the feeling that with no eeeeeeevil Russians or Eastern European judges on the horizon, Brian Joubert has been set up as the bad guy by some in the NA media.

If so, the North American media are barking up the wrong tree. Photogenic, charming, talented Brian will always be popular everywhere in the world no matter what foolishness the media put out.

I don't know why Scott thinks it's a good idea to hammer on Joubert anyways. I mean doesn't he realize the money making machine Joubert could be on SOI.

He can be the new Kulik, when Ilia retires.

 

[Mafke]

I refuse to feel I have a crap taste just because I enjoy Brian.

What's wrong with crap taste? I've enjoyed lots of skaters that can't be called artists (at least not with a straight face).

I don't have to try to convince myself that Yoshie Onda (for example) was an artiste to find her immensely enjoyable and really regret her (premature) retirement.