- Joined
- Feb 6, 2009
Orser provides insight into making of a champion
- Thread starter ehdtkqorl123
- Start date
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
Very interesting. Maybe yu-na's desire to "fix the flip" will are coming back to bite her considering there was not much wrong last year. Also interesting is orser's praise of "the mother" after that article last year over how competiitive she wad and overly hard on her daughter.
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2009
She decided to "fix" the flip because she got a couple of ! and a e mark for the first flip of the triple-triple combo last year. Her edge was too close to straight up so they gave her ! sometimes and they changed the rule to mandate -1 to -2 points off for a ! mark. She wanted to make sure that she would never get an e or ! mark for the flip jump.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
The rule has never been that a "!" get mandatory negative GOE, it's only the "e" that means the GOE has to be negative.
Ant
- Joined
- Oct 13, 2009
Wow, here's smth I clearly didn't know. What's the difference between ! and e? "e" means wrong edge right? then what is the "!"? No clear edging or smth? :scratch::scratch:
Yuna seems to have a great team! That's so wonderful for her. It seems to be a very exciting working group!
Yeah, it sounds a very courageous thing to do in the Olympic season considering that her 3F is a big, big money jump and she was a lot more likely than not to be fine in the edge calls. I wonder which risk is greater, to fall (due to this change) or to be called. The former could be greater. But she has decided to take this risk.
I think I heard ISU changed the rule so that mandatory point deduction of -1 to -2 GOE is applied to ! as well, effective of this season.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
The Technical Panel gives an "e" where there is a clear change of edge so that the jump takes off from the wrong edge. If a jump is given an "e" it can only receive negative GOEs. The technical panel gives a "!" where a change of edge might have happened but it's a very close call, but they think one might have done - it's a warning for the judges to check. If a jump is given a "!" then it's up to the judges to decide what to score the jump but it is not mandatory negative GOE. More than one judge I have spoken to says they ignore the "!" and mark what they see.
I haven't heard that at all - this is the first time i've even heard someone on the baords mention it. I would have thought that if "!" did require a mandatory negative GOE it would make the disctinction between "e" and "!" irrelevant. I've looked through a few of the communications that updated the rules and didn't see this one. Maybe someone else who is well up to speed with all the recent changes can confirm?
Ant
^
AFIK -1 to -2 GOE to ! is not about the final GOE. If the other qualities of a ! jump are very good, then the final GOE can still be positive. The difference is that, in the previous season, judges did not need to subtract -1 or -2 from the value they would give.
AFIK -1 to -2 GOE to ! is not about the final GOE. If the other qualities of a ! jump are very good, then the final GOE can still be positive. The difference is that, in the previous season, judges did not need to subtract -1 or -2 from the value they would give.
- Joined
- Dec 28, 2006
Would it be possible for a skater like yuna to get a ! On the flip, the first jump of a combo, but positive goe on the second jump so that the net score or a plus?
Yes it is possible. In case of Yuna, her GOE on her 3-3 was around 2 before but after she started getting ! it has dropped to something like 0.6.
Anyway, it's very nice to know Yuna has such a wonderful team around her.
- Joined
- Oct 24, 2009
Here is the ISU communication 1557 that talks about the revised ! mark penalty:
http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1427
It states under Error under which final GOE is not restricted,
Unclear edge at take-off in F/Lz (sign "!") Reduction/other -1 to -2.
What this means is that even though the final GOE does not have to be negative, a ! mark is automatically -1 to -2 lower than what the jump would have gotten if not for the ! mark.
http://isu.sportcentric.net/db//files/serve.php?id=1427
It states under Error under which final GOE is not restricted,
Unclear edge at take-off in F/Lz (sign "!") Reduction/other -1 to -2.
What this means is that even though the final GOE does not have to be negative, a ! mark is automatically -1 to -2 lower than what the jump would have gotten if not for the ! mark.
- Joined
- Feb 5, 2004
That seems ridiculous to me. It boils down to the fact that the Technical Panel cannot determine a clear take off edge of a jump. The can't use slow motion to replay the take off (as i understand it they can only use the slow mo to review the landing) so it could be as simple as the skater is doing the Lutz of flip side on to them (which is always the case as the tech panel and judges are always down the long sides of the rink) and they can't really see the edge. So because the tech panel is unsure the sakter potentially suffers -1 to -2 on a jump that might in fact be fine.
No wonder the judges i've spoken to still disregard the ! and judge what they see.
Ant
I heard that when the technical panel cannot determine (because of camera angle, for example) whether take off is correct or not, they give a skater benefit of doubt. In that case, if the take off was wrong, the one who suffer is a skater with a correct technique who may be placed below the skater who might have in fact wrong technique.
