Caroline Zhang's 2009-10 season

[bigsisjiejie]

So my best friend is a serious figure skater and last year she was running every day but when her coaches found out they told her to stop right away because it uses the wrong muscles and will hurt one's skating. I'm sure some kind of cardio is good for skaters to due but running might not be the best form, it is awfully hard on the knees. I do think skater's have to do off ice work if they want to get better though. I remember watching that show Ice Diaries how all those girls did cardio, weights, and conditioning in addition to daily on-ice training almost every day. Most of them had personal trainers too. There are a lot of Yu Na interviews online and she works out in the gym a lot, lifting weights and doing cardio, and I know Mao and Alissa and Mirai (at least used to-might still) take ballet classes. It just seems like off-ice training is necessary to keep a competitive edge.

Cardio work is definitely helpful for stamina, the trick is to cross train and not overwork any one muscle group or overdo it. Serious running uses less quadriceps and more hamstring, while freestyle skating is the opposite, also hard running puts the knees more at risk than other types of cardio exercise. I seem to recall Kristi Yamaguchi said she used to bicycle a lot for cardio and stamina, esp in the off-season, to augment her other training. Biking is heavily quad work and generally less stress on the knees. Most skaters need a balanced off-ice program that covers stamina, core strength, arm/leg strength, flexibility, and artistry--in order to get to and stay at the very elite ranks. Skaters ignore this aspect of training at their peril.

 

[silverlake22]

Most skaters need a balanced off-ice program that covers stamina, core strength, arm/leg strength, flexibility, and artistry--in order to get to and stay at the very elite ranks. Skaters ignore this aspect of training at their peril.

Wouldn't it be nice if something as simple as off ice training could help Caroline a lot. Anyhow, it's interesting that skating uses mostly quadriceps and that a lot of skaters take ballet, which uses hardly any quadriceps at all. I guess in that case it doesn't hurt one's skating though like running might. Also, isn't 4 to 5 hours of skating a day a bit excessive? I feel as though after 3 hours one's skating would become worse, not better

 

[ks777]

I think she should go to Nikoli Morozov, he helped turn Miko Ando back into a great skater after she bombed at the Olympics in 2006. I also do agree with what people are saying about how Caroline's build doesn't lend itself as well to fast skating and high jumps. Ashley and Mirai are much more athletically built, with broad shoulders and muscular legs and arms. Caroline is built more like Alissa Czisny (who also skates slowly and struggles with some jumps) in that they are both thin but lack the athletic build, having small shoulders and little upper body strength. Though Caroline doesn't have big hips, the center of gravity would be lower for them then the girls with big shoulders just because she doesn't have big shoulders. This probably makes it harder to get height on her jumps, and now that she's grown so tall, she can't rotate as fast as she used to and that's why she struggles with her jumps. I believe she can find someone who will help her with her jumps (Alissa Czisny did and has improved since), but she may never become a skater with great jumps. Sasha Cohen wasn't that great technically and still did very well for herself and with Caroline's flexibility and good spins she could potentially become a skater in her model if she fixes her technique and gains some speed.

The difference between Miki Ando and Caroline Zhang is that Miki had good basic skating skills and she also had good techniques on her jumps.

Here is one of Miki's programs when she was at Caroline's age.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cji7_iIAAOU&feature=fvsr

You can clearly see Miki's skating skills are much much better than Caroline.. Plus her jumps were huge with good techniques.

 

[Spun Silver]

Wow, what a marvelous skate by young Miki! Thanks for posting it. Big difference between her and Caroline.

 

[bigsisjiejie]

Wouldn't it be nice if something as simple as off ice training could help Caroline a lot. Anyhow, it's interesting that skating uses mostly quadriceps and that a lot of skaters take ballet, which uses hardly any quadriceps at all. I guess in that case it doesn't hurt one's skating though like running might. Also, isn't 4 to 5 hours of skating a day a bit excessive? I feel as though after 3 hours one's skating would become worse, not better

Ballet uses quads in the leaps, but skaters mostly use ballet to develop posture, line, core strength, artistry/musicality, and not really for muscle development. But ballet, useful though it is for skaters, shouldn't be the ONLY off-ice training component.

Caroline's problems will not be solved only by off-ice training, she also has to relearn her basics and her jumps on ice. Her spins are the element that need the least work right now, so at least that's something on the positive side.

And yes, I think there is a thing as "too much" skating practice. And particularly if it is all freestyle focused.

 

[PolymerBob]

I think we are all forgetting something here. Caroline's poor technique is not what hurt her at Skate Canada. She had the same technique when she earned 4th place and a standing ovation at Four Continents in February. She had the same poor technique at the World Team Trophy in April when she placed 3rd, secured the win for her team, and won a $30,000 check ....... oh yes, and another standing ovation.

There had to be something else that was going on in Canada. Caroline doesn't let terrible technique stand in her way. Until we know what that "something else" is, we can't say what will fix it.

 

[oleada]

I think Caroline's technique has gotten worse.
I don't think she'd be able to land the jumps with her technique if she skated faster.

 

[cornell08]

I think we are all forgetting something here. Caroline's poor technique is not what hurt her at Skate Canada. She had the same technique when she earned 4th place and a standing ovation at Four Continents in February. She had the same poor technique at the World Team Trophy in April when she placed 3rd, secured the win for her team, and won a $30,000 check ....... oh yes, and another standing ovation.

There had to be something else that was going on in Canada. Caroline doesn't let terrible technique stand in her way. Until we know what that "something else" is, we can't say what will fix it.

I think whats missing is skating with heart. Which is understandable since she seems lost in her own programs and unable to enjoy herself, let alone emote. She's worried, and she's lost confidence. I actually don't think her skating has deteriorated as much as her psychological strength of mind. And the laggard music (BOTH the SP and LP)....please ditch them.

 

[janetfan]

I think whats missing is skating with heart. Which is understandable since she seems lost in her own programs and unable to enjoy herself, let alone emote. She's worried, and she's lost confidence. I actually don't think her skating has deteriorated as much as her psychological strength of mind. And the laggard music (BOTH the SP and LP)....please ditch them.

I never thought i would say this but Caroline's LP is the most boring one I have seen this season.

It almost reminds me of Ryan's LP. Both are skated too slowly but the difference is that Ryan is having fun and emoting great charm to the crowd and judges.

I compare the programs because Caroline's is so dull it might be easier for her to turn it into a parody (of a junior skater) rather than a serious senior level program..

Sorry if that sounds like a harsh judgement and I really do feel bad for the problems Caroline is facing. I am sure her practices are not going well and thus the lack of confidence and espression she is showing on the ice.

I said it before and believe that this being an Olympic year was not a good thing for Caroline.

All summer I read posts saying she shoudn't change and just go for it.
I am not happy to be right about this and the longer Caroline waits to address her technical issues the lower the odds of ever fxing them become.

I wonder if she will continue after this season.........

 

[cornell08]

I think it would be easier to go back to the drawing board and create two new programs (with new choreography) than to try to make these two existing ones work. Charlene doesn't seem too busy now...I would be thrilled if Caroline had Mirai's programs from last season.

 

[silverlake22]

I think we are all forgetting something here. Caroline's poor technique is not what hurt her at Skate Canada. She had the same technique when she earned 4th place and a standing ovation at Four Continents in February. She had the same poor technique at the World Team Trophy in April when she placed 3rd, secured the win for her team, and won a $30,000 check ....... oh yes, and another standing ovation.

There had to be something else that was going on in Canada. Caroline doesn't let terrible technique stand in her way. Until we know what that "something else" is, we can't say what will fix it.

Yeah ok, Miki did have much better skating and jumps at her age, I guess nerves must have been what caused her bad performance at the Olympics....I think Caroline's problem is that her skating has not gotten faster despite her growth spurt. When she was doing so well in competitions in '07 and '08 you didn't really notice she was slow because she was so tiny. She's 5'4" now which is not small for a skater, she has also grown a lot stronger, so it is expected her skating would become faster and her jumps higher but they haven't. Her triple jumps are like an inch above the ground still and she falls more because it's harder to rotate now that she's taller. She also slows her skating down even more before her jumps, so it's like they are taking off from a standstill and I would assume it's a lot harder to do a double axel on the ground than doing one on the ice with a lot of speed. Caroline is making it harder for herself by skating so slowly. I don't know why it is so hard for her to skate faster, she is strong and has long leqs it shouldn't be an issue but somehow it is....
Oh, but who did Alissa go to to fix her jumps? I know they aren't completely fixed but her technique is better than it used to be....2 years ago when she had such a bad season they said that relearning jumps was a 2 year process, and she started when she was 19 so Caroline should have time

 

[cornell08]

I'm not too worried about Caroline-- she's only sixteen afterall. Plus, even if re-learning jumps and stroking etc. does not work, at the very worst she can always be a pairs skater . But I think she'll be just fine given time to work stuff out.

 

[DesertRoad]

Can't see Zhang as a pair skater. She's a bit tall to be one, plus at her speed, her partner will be at the other side of the rink and she'll still be at the boards.

The only way Zhang can advance in her current career is she becomes a fundamentally different skater. Insert fork. She's done.

 

[silverlake22]

She needs someone to help with it in a very organized way, like Brian Orser has done for Yu-na, who also wasn't particularly fast or strong (though had better jump technique) when she went to Brian. Maybe if Yu-na wins OGM and retires, Caroline can go to Brian? That would be amazing for her -- I'm just not sure that Brian would take her, even if she chooses to move all the way over to Canada.
.

I actually don't agree about Yu Na being like Caroline at her age, if you watch her program at 2005 jr worlds http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gVSpow1HEBQ you can see that even at 14, she skated much faster than caroline and had much higher jumps which she executed with good technique. She may look awfully frail but I feel like she must have been strong based on her skating. Little Yu Na with braces is so cute

 

[bigsisjiejie]

I think we are all forgetting something here. Caroline's poor technique is not what hurt her at Skate Canada. She had the same technique when she earned 4th place and a standing ovation at Four Continents in February. She had the same poor technique at the World Team Trophy in April when she placed 3rd, secured the win for her team, and won a $30,000 check ....... oh yes, and another standing ovation.

There had to be something else that was going on in Canada. Caroline doesn't let terrible technique stand in her way. Until we know what that "something else" is, we can't say what will fix it.

Two things going on at SC:
1) Caroline's technique and performance are not the same as Feb FCC--she has backslid and her t & p have gotten worse.

2) The intl judges have decided they aren't going to put up with her anymore and are sending an unmistakeable message.; in effect, drawing their line in the sand. Can't say I blame them, my eyes hurt just attempting to watch her this season.

 

[demarinis5]

snip

2) The intl judges have decided they aren't going to put up with her anymore and are sending an unmistakeable message.; in effect, drawing their line in the sand. Can't say I blame them, my eyes hurt just attempting to watch her this season.

I have to disagree with your above statement. Your reference to "message" sounds like Caroline has been held up in the past IMO that is not true. The intl. judges had no choice but to score Caroline for what she did on the ice, it had nothing to do with a "message" Insert any skaters' name in the mix and if they skated as poorly as Caroline did their scores would be awful too. The judges weren't singling Caroline out they just scored what they saw on the ice as simple as that.

 

[Andalusia]

Sigh. Happier times:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cvAwbu2Iol8

That's Caroline's benefit performance in June as filmed in HQ by Copley Media. Lovely, quiet, and so expressive through her face.

What could have been...

 

[demarinis5]

^Thanks for the link. That was lovely.

 

[Andalusia]

^Thanks for the link. That was lovely.

You're welcome.

I couldn't quite believe it when she blew a kiss to the audience right before the spiral. Why oh why can't she show that semblance of personality in her competitive programmes?!

 

[R.D.]

I couldn't quite believe it when she blew a kiss to the audience right before the spiral. Why oh why can't she show that semblance of personality in her competitive programmes?!

Wow wow hold it, stop the presses. She did WHAT?? :chorus: