Do men need the quad at this Olympics?

[futureidol]

Weir said he will do the quad if he makes it to Vancouver. Galina insists. He's been landing it consistently in practice. He feels it's too much of a risk to try it in Spokane. He needs two clean programs to make the US team and a potential fall or two footed landing on the quad would be too risky. I don't think Lysacek will try it until the Olympics either. LOL at least Weir and Lysacek have their hatred for the quad in common. I hate it too, it destroys the hips and it's not the greatest thing about Men's skating IMO.

 

[silverlake22]

He was down with the flu bug for too long after SA to build up enough stamina for the LP and said he felt like his legs were not responding after the first few jumping passes. He had 0 energy in the rest of the programme and it was the flattest thing I've seen Tomas produce. I hope things go better for him in EC so than he can build some positive energy and confidence out of it before the olympics.

Yeah he was definitely really sick. He did quite well at TEB coming in 2nd at the first event of the season. I suspect he was still recovering at the GPF as well, it's normal for him to make silly mistakes but he normally doesn't pop 3 jumps in a row into singles. I hope he's feeling better for EC and that he skates well. He has said that he's sick of coming in 4th place and is really shooting to make the podium at EC this year.

 

[Buttercup]

1: Base Values 4T 9.8, 4S 10.3, 4Lz 11.3 / 3Lz 6.0, 3T 4.0, 3A 8.2

2: 4T with -1 GOE = 8.2, -2 GOE = 6.6

I just want to add, though it wasn't asked, that the -GOEs are worth 1.6 each, while the +GOEs are the same as they are for other triples: 1 point each. So skaters risk big penalties for mistakes and receive smaller rewards for a well executed quad. And if it's a quad combination and the mistake is on the second jump, it's still the negative quad GOE that's applied. The 3A also has different values for + and - GOEs, and I think this is something needs to be changed for both jumps.

Yeah he was definitely really sick. He did quite well at TEB coming in 2nd at the first event of the season. I suspect he was still recovering at the GPF as well, it's normal for him to make silly mistakes but he normally doesn't pop 3 jumps in a row into singles. I hope he's feeling better for EC and that he skates well. He has said that he's sick of coming in 4th place and is really shooting to make the podium at EC this year.

Not only was Tomas really sick, he had very short notice too: Joubert was injured only a week before the GPF, giving Tomas just a few days to train before leaving for Japan.

 

[Joesitz (RIP)]

..
I agree, but one visible mistake on Zhenya's part, like a fall or a popped jump, and voila. And Zhenya is no longer the man he was in 2006.

I agree. It's like Skate Dance who's judges probably feel better seeing a mistake. They can then eliminate one or more Dance couples without discussion.

Yet, in Evan's case, their are a number of "Iffy Quad Jumpers". The Law of Averages says that at least one will land it. So I think it might as well be he.

 

[silverlake22]

Not only was Tomas really sick, he had very short notice too: Joubert was injured only a week before the GPF, giving Tomas just a few days to train before leaving for Japan.

This is true too. He was probably jetlagged. I know that isn't an excuse but I think most people know he's one of the most talented male skaters around now, at least technically. I really like his footwork too though and his edging is good too. Now we just have to wait and see if he can keep it together. I like his teammate Brezina too. My ideal Euros podium would be Plushy, Joubert, and Verner - in whatever order. I actually am not too impressed by Joubert's overall skating this season, he is a great jumper, and is very good looking, but this season I've found his performances kind of flat. It may be due to his injury though.

 

[Dee4707]

In addition to Plushenko's mistake in the SP, His program was a replacement program that he and his coach made after Plushenko thought that his original lp was a failure at the GPF

It was Evgeny's Michael Jackson program that he fell. I agree that he did underestimate his original lp. I liked it but it was something that the judges said that made them change to Carmen. That Grand Prix was a shocker because I thought Evegeny was going to win and so did he.

 

[herro]

Plush does meticulously tick them off, even if the earth's rotation is the only reason he actually goes round!

Ant

How the heck this I miss this comment? I admire Plushenko a lot, but that's just too funny.

 

[seniorita]

The sad thing is he didn't land it in the 2002 Olympics, which could be the case at any time.

that was the most useless half an hour of my day but it was a nice break from the exams, I counted the quads plush has done from after that Olys till now.I checked euros, worlds, gp, some cheesfests like marshalls and cambells etc , Rn and Olympics. Probably have missed some but maybe not much cause he does the quads as one two first elements so I checked 30 secs of each program.

From 61 quads he had tried (20 in 2002-03, 18 2003-04, 9 in 2004-05 and 2005-06 and 5 this season) he had:

• 4falls in Sp(cor 2003, gfp 2004, cor 2005, worlds 2005)
• 1 fall in lp (cheesfest)
• 1 2footed
• 3 touch down/step out
• has tripled 6 of them and all were his second quad in the Lp except this year RN
• has singled the second jump of combo twice

So yes the odds are in favor of him, but quad is one second of his programs and it can happen any time and that was the meaningless survey ever.
But if he falls in Olympics I will know who to blame dee

 

[Dee4707]

But if he falls in Olympics I will know who to blame dee

OH NO!!! Seniorita, you're not putting that pressure on me.....

My point for the comment I made was...I don't think that it's a given that Evgeny is going to win the gold medal. I think we know that in 2002, it was going to be either my cute little Alexei or Plushy with the mullet hair-do. Who would have ever thunk that Sarah Hughes would win the Ladies gold medal???

But if Evgeny does fall and loses the gold, will we still be friends???:agree: :agree:

 

[Nadine]

seniorita, thanks for the stats, you remind me of mathman with all his calculations.

But when it comes down to it, history has shown us that stats & calculations & et al means total s-q-u-a-t! If it was meant to be it was meant to be.

And on that score I believe Evgeni Plushenko was meant to be a 2-time Olympic Champion. And as he has said himself I have my own destiny...

BRING IT ON!!!!!!!TIME TO SEPARATE THE MEN FROM THE BOYS!!!!!!

 

[seniorita]

My point earlier was that Plush might not fall on the quad and still dont be on podium, I dont think it is a given he will win with his quads, I want to see his marks internationally at euros first anyway.
of course if he medals I will jump and if he would win gold again I will pass out
Of course we will be friends dee, I m not in such expectation to see him win this time, the last time was the bite nailing one, until he had his torino gold donut I was pretty anxious:boohoo:

 

[Dee4707]

I m not in such expectation to see him win this time, the last time was the bite nailing one, until he had his torino gold donut I was pretty anxious:boohoo:

I know what you mean, when Evgeny fell in the SP in 2002, I let out with a loud gasp!!!

When Alexei started skating his LP, I smoked at the time and his LP was a 3 cigarette LP and I never let up puffing on those ciggys until he took his final pose. Of course I couldn't breathe afterwards but who cares Alexei won the gold!!!

 

[silverlake22]

I have a feeling......Carolina and Tomas will win the OGM :agree: . Repeat of 2002 and show that headcases still have it going on

In reality, Plushy will probably win. But there are so many good guys this year it's hard to say. With this new PCS trend maybe Joubert will win because he's the best looking

 

[ImaginaryPogue]

Interesting discussion.

1. Will the Men's OGM have/need a quad? I think so and yes, I'll give credit to Plushenko here. It's not merely that he lands them - but he lands them consistently and gets huge GOES. Whatever flaws he has in his skating, he can make up for them there. wonderlen3000 mentioned that the TES on a Quad + 7 triple program > an eight triple program, but Jeff Buttle in 2008 already proved otherwise. And Evan Lysacek reminded us of that last year.

2. Oh, goodness, the idea of Verner skating clean! Seriously, if he does, I think he'd win - he's just that good. But his recent results worry me - not just the GP, but his own Nationals too. But I love his short program, and like his long program a great deal - I think I'd place him just behind Takahashi in that regard.

3. Truth be told, I sorta hope that the OGM doesn't have a quad. I didn't grow up watching figure skating under 6.0 (not regularly, anyway) so I don't value it as much as everyone else. Plus it's be really funny to come here and read everyone bemoaning the state of men's figure skating because the gold medalist didn't rotate four times in the air. Especially if the silver medalist does.

 

[seniorita]

Plus it's be really funny to come here and read everyone bemoaning the state of men's figure skating because the gold medalist didn't rotate four times in the air. Especially if the silver medalist does.

Even more funny to read the frustration if the gold medalist doesn't do a low sit spin. Especially if the silver medalist does.

 

[schiele]

Interesting discussion.

1. Will the Men's OGM have/need a quad? I think so and yes, I'll give credit to Plushenko here. It's not merely that he lands them - but he lands them consistently and gets huge GOES. Whatever flaws he has in his skating, he can make up for them there. wonderlen3000 mentioned that the TES on a Quad + 7 triple program > an eight triple program, but Jeff Buttle in 2008 already proved otherwise. And Evan Lysacek reminded us of that last year.

2. Oh, goodness, the idea of Verner skating clean! Seriously, if he does, I think he'd win - he's just that good. But his recent results worry me - not just the GP, but his own Nationals too. But I love his short program, and like his long program a great deal - I think I'd place him just behind Takahashi in that regard.

3. Truth be told, I sorta hope that the OGM doesn't have a quad. I didn't grow up watching figure skating under 6.0 (not regularly, anyway) so I don't value it as much as everyone else. Plus it's be really funny to come here and read everyone bemoaning the state of men's figure skating because the gold medalist didn't rotate four times in the air. Especially if the silver medalist does.

1. Ditto!
2. Yes, I found that worrying as well.. I always put down his SA and GPF to the flu, unprepared state etc but the nats was another story.. Then i got actually worried. Like Caro, he's got it all, what a shame and pain it is for me to see this..
3. Errrmm.. Well I happen to have the opposite sentiments on that one. Btw, I'm sure you've seen it many times but I still recommend you to go back to 2002 videos again, put Goebel, Plushy and Yagudin back to back and watch the SP and the LPs in a row without a break and you'll probably feel it too.

 

[silverlake22]

Even more funny to read the frustration if the gold medalist doesn't do a low sit spin. Especially if the silver medalist does.

The most funny is the guy who does a 4-3, and gets a +2 GOE on it, and comes in last at the GPF!

 

[Hsuhs]

The most funny is the guy who does a 4-3, and gets a +2 GOE on it, and comes in last at the GPF!

Verner also landed a clean quad in the long program (had to check the protocols), with a +1 GOE. A guy with 2 clean quads (one in combination) comes in last. Hmmmmm....

 

[Spun Silver]

When Alexei started skating his LP, I smoked at the time and his LP was a 3 cigarette LP and I never let up puffing on those ciggys until he took his final pose. Of course I couldn't breathe afterwards but who cares Alexei won the gold!!!

Dee, I presume you mean three at a time? LOL. Would you please stick in 4 for Sasha's SP and 5 for her FP? Thanks, hon.

 

[wonderlen3000]

The most funny is the guy who does a 4-3, and gets a +2 GOE on it, and comes in last at the GPF!

Well a quad only take maybe one or two most of your jumping pass, which mean you still have 6-7 jumping pass to finish and all those 3+3 combinations to rack up the points. Having a quad doesn't mean a skater is invincible, it just increase the chances of winning or getting onto the podium.

If only male fingure skating is restricted to 5-6 jumping pass, Verner will be ready multiple world champions. LOL It's too fustrating to watch him, doing so darm well in the first half of the program and then start poping jump in the last minutes. Maybe he has a classic case of ADD.