Men's Free Skate - Thurs, 18th 8pm EST

[museksk8r]

Did you not notice Evan bobbled on one of the spin and got level 4?
Evan, all season long got 84-85 in the SP. 152-155 in the LP. Magically got 90+, 167+.
Say what you will about the other two medalists. They've achieved those scores way back.
Evan politik score is worth more than 2 quads and pushed him for the win.

Prior to his Worlds win, Evan always received international PCS scores in the 72-75 range for the LP when he skated well by his standards. After his Worlds win, he suddenly started receiving PCS scores from 82-84. His skating itself sure didn't improve by 10 points! :disapp: PCS is a HUGE joke! . . . the ISU should scrap all the bogus criteria they say it represents and just call it a momentum score.

 

[NatachaHatawa]

What a boring night! I think I can count the amount of good performances on one hand!

I picked up in the middle of Tomas's LP, which I think is useless to comment as it's nothing new for Tomas.

The first notable performance was Adrian Schultheiss's. His PCS was way too low.

Artem Borudulin's program showed that he is a promissing skater and I hope to see more of him in the futur.

I was a little disappointed by Jeremy Abbott's program - I've seen him better artisticly.

Concerning Samuel Contesti's program I remeber two things. The first is him getting the 3A wrong when he's got one of the best in the world. The second isthe actual program. Although it was entertaining in a certain way, I failed to see how this program intepreted Andean music specificaly - the choreography could have been to any style really.

Javier Fernadez's program was fantastic, it's just a shame he did a few mistakes.

Brian, what can I say about him? I was hoping that he'd just use this opportunity to go wild on the ice and take all the risks he has been dreaming of taking. Instead he decided to prepare for wrolds, which is rather positive after his recent declarations. At first he was completely lost, he's obviously not used to this situation, but then he pulled through, but nothing more, he didn't interprete his program. Can I ask how is it possible for him to get -4,80 on his quad when GOEs only go down to -3? (he's not the only one with that kind of GOE).

I usually love Kozuka, but I thought this program was boring.

I'm upset for Denis Ten, he's such a taleted skater, even though his LP wasn't very good artisticaly.

I think Kevin's program had potential, but there wasn't any choreography.

Florent really made me proud and he had one of the best skates of the evening. In this competition he showed that he can handle important competitions - I can' wait for him to become a heavywaight. His PCS was a little low.

Patrick had all of his usual qualities, but I think that this program still needs working on. I hope he gets back into shape soon.

I'm so upset for Stéphane. Firstly I think that this program is far from being one of his best ones. However, here he seemed a little absent when it came to interpetation.

Dai had a great skate, maybe not quite as good as in his Swan Lake days, but great all the same.

Here's the prickly issue: Evan vs Evgeni.

Johnny was soooo underated. he had one of the most beatiful skates of the evening. His PCS was a joke.

I think Evan had a great skate, although I personnaly didn't enjoy it. I was expecting Evgeni to just be a machine, but I was happy to see him more present on the ice than at Euros. Technicaly, it wasn't so good, at least conerning the quality of the execution of his jumps. However he was the only one to do 4-3. I'm not going to comment on who should have one on this thread, but I'm just happy to see Plush present on the ice.

 

[sillylionlove]

You guys know if Evan will retire from senior competition?

When they interviewed him on the Today show this morning...he didn't really say but Meridith Viera asked if we would see him in Sochi in 2014 and he said that you might or it's possible or something like that.

 

[FlattFan]

Prior to his Worlds win, Evan always received international PCS scores in the 72-75 range for the LP when he skated well by his standards. After his Worlds win, he suddenly started receiving PCS scores from 82-84. PCS is a HUGE joke! . . . the ISU should scrap all the bogus criteria they say it represents and just call it a momentum score.

Or add another column, political momentum, to Program Component Score. At least I could understand where the points are coming from.

 

[ademption]

Some thoughts about last night's free skate:

I admit to being wrong about Evan's strategy. I thought it was foolhardy for him not to try the quad, but his cautious free skate won the day. I noticed a few changes in his free skate compared to the Olympics. Besides no quad, he also performed a double axel as his last jump at the Olympics instead of the triple flip at Nationals. When I looked at his planned jumps before the competition, I thought he was leaving a lot of potentional points off the table. But like I said before, I was really wrong about that. I guess I'm still adjusting to the COP system. I need to learn more about it so that I can understand the skaters' various strategies. That's very obvious to me now.

I congratulate Evan for his strategy as well as his mental toughness for both programs. I don't particularly care for his style of skating but I do respect him as a fierce competitor. I personally dislike him after seeing how he poorly treated some fans at a Skate America competition a few years ago. But that's neither here nor there. Evan came up with the goods last night, so hats off to him.

I look at Evan's win this way. After yesterday, I will no longer have to see him skating in a competitive setting. I doubt that he will be a cultural icon like Brian Boitano, the last American gold medal winner. No South Park songs will be written about him. No primetime skating specials are in Evan's future. He won't get a hour-long special on HBO, skating to Carmen on Ice. He won't win numerous professional competitions (well, there aren't any anymore anyway). He won't receive as many endorsements as Brian Boitano or Dorothy Hamill received in their heyday. Who would want to see him have his own cooking show? Not many, especially with his personality. Quite frankly, his professional options are quite limited. He can skate in Stars on Ice, Disson ice shows with musicians past their prime or coach. That's it. I think he will largely become as forgettable as Alexei Urmanov as a professional. But we'll see...

On the other hand, maybe Evan's win will increase US interest in this sport? Viewership of skating events has waned these past few years in the United States. Perhaps we could see the return of fake ice competitions like Ice Wars? I've so missed professional skating competitions. It was really great to see skaters' personality and the whole package come out in their performance. I miss seeing competitive skating every weekend during the fall/winter like in the decade of the 90s. Those were good times.

So I am of two minds about Evan's win. Very conflicted.

As for Plushenko, I don't like his style of skating either. But I respect the fact that he came back after all those years, performed his quad, landed his jumps and received a silver medal. That, despite a recent injury. I think his footwork was a little faster in the free skate. So good for him.

I have never liked Plushenko's style as a skater, but my respect for him as a person grew when I met him at the 2003 World Championships in DC. He is not an evil guy as portrayed by the American media, particularly NBC. He was great with fans. He was very considerate and took the time to sign autographs, take pictures. I remember him signing an autograph for an older lady where he took several minutes and drew a picture of a butterfly(?) as part of his autograph. I also respected his skating a little more seeing him live. He was very engaging. So, I'm glad that he made history by getting 3 medals in 3 consecutive Olympics.

As for Daisuke, I am so thrilled that he won the bronze. After his meltdown at the Grand Prix, I was hopeful that he would be in the top 10. After the short, I was worried about him placing in the top 5. I wanted him to win gold, but hearing about his bad practices, I just wasn't sure what he was going to do. Kudos to him for coming back after the fall on the quad. He came back from a major injury and had the stamina to complete the program without any other major mistakes. As a fan, I know that he can be a headcase sometimes. Think 2008 Worlds. But he held it together at the Olympics and I couldn't be prouder of him. I am so going to miss seeing him. I doubt that he will skate professionally in the United States. I don't think that Scotty Hamilton would invite him on the Stars on Ice tour. Besides, his professional opportunities are probably more lucrative in Asia anyway. I wish him good luck in his future endeavors. I hope to see him in Turin and perhaps be in the top 3? A girl can only hope...

I was disappointed by Lambiel's free skate. I really enjoyed his performance at Europeans earlier this year, despite the mistakes. Last night not so much. I really liked his program, oh well....

I'm really glad that Johnny Weir skated his heart out at these Olympic Games. I was really proud of him. Despite his placement, I hope that he remembers these Games fondly....

 

[grace23]

It was a joy to watch Lambiel's program. Though there were stumbles, he skated perfectly to the music.

 

[Dee4707]

I would have liked his program a lot more if he weren't such an arrogant snot during it. He had wonky landings and front-loaded his program. He was able to get away with it 4 years ago (and he deserved his win 4 years ago, although maybe not by such a large margin), but this year, he needed to be more well-rounded. I

I guess the above is what bothered me about Plushenko's program. He, Mishin and choreographer thought Plush could win with that program and risque movements. He should fire his choreographer for that program.

 

[DesertRoad]

You make some good points - but this "Plushy is pushing the limits" talk is getting silly. He did one quad. Elvis did as much and more in the 90's not to mention Tim Goebel who was laying down three quads eight years ago.

Nothing agaisnt Plushy - but I missed any boundaries he was pushing last night. His program in fact looked very dated, some have called it an "old school" 6.0 program. A great comeback but it featured some old fashioned skating IMO. There was absolutely nothing new from Plushy that we haven't seen years ago.

Indeed. With all these talk of quads, I assume the Russians will be wanting to go back in time and give Yagudin's gold medal to Tim Goebel. After all, Goebel landed 3 quads to Yagudin's 2, and since quads and only quads matter, and Goebel's 2 quads cancel out Yagudin's, that means Yagudin, for all intents and purposes, won without a quad. INJUSTICE! The hunchback was robbed!

 

[Mafke]

I guess the above is what bothered me about Plushenko's program. He, Mishin and choreographer thought Plush could win with that program

I think Plushenko's problem was two-fold:

1. His program wasn't very CoP friendly.

2. He skated as if he had a huge lead after the SP when he had teeny tiny lead.

 

[Lynn51]

^^^
Thank you for your kind words. It's very difficult to read the outcome with posts that do not understand the judges. It really is their decision on the outcom and not the fans of one over the other.

Could someone post the Tech and PC protocols of Evgeni and Evan so we can all compare what the judges saw?​

And find out who the judges are that did not favor your favorite.

Joe,
Here's the link to each skaters' protocols: http://www.vancouver2010.com/olympic-figure-skating/schedule-and-results/men-free-skating_fsm010101eh.html Just click on the plus sign after the skaters' Total Score and you can view the protocols.

 

[Dee4707]

Indeed. With all these talk of quads, I assume the Russians will be wanting to go back in time and give Yagudin's gold medal to Tim Goebel. After all, Goebel landed 3 quads to Yagudin's 2, and since quads and only quads matter, and Goebel's 2 quads cancel out Yagudin's, that means Yagudin, for all intents and purposes, won without a quad. INJUSTICE! The hunchback was robbed!

Tim also faltered on one of his jumps and possibly that's why he didn't get the silver medal.

 

[jennylovskt]

Taking risks cost Dai the gold medal.

Yes. Dai said before LP that without going all the way out, he wouldn't be satisfied to himself even if he won. What a class act! Takahashi has a champion's heart. He is a true champion!

As to Evan - when you are the new Olympic Champion and "King of The Ice" there are other opportunities to consider.

King of The Ice won't be chickened on something and have to find a way to compensate it. That could never be called a King. It's like a knight who is afraid of drawing a sword. Sorry!

Evan, and his infamous coach Carroll, is certainly playing the system and played well. (That's why I did not go through the details on his scores. There is not much to go through because many columns could have benefit of doubt.) That doesn't mean that he could be a true champion in my and many, many other people's heart.

You guys know if Evan will retire from senior competition?

I would certainly hope so. He has gotten what he wanted. It's time to get off the stage.

 

[Dee4707]

I think Plushenko's problem was two-fold:

1. His program wasn't very CoP friendly.

2. He skated as if he had a huge lead after the SP when he had teeny tiny lead.

I 100% agree with you so where was Mishin and choreographer's heads???? I would assume that Mishin has current students that are now being groomed in COP.

 

[DesertRoad]

Tim also faltered on one of his jumps and possibly that's why he didn't get the silver medal.

He didn't falter on a quad, and that's all that matters. Snort.

 

[CarolB]

Plushenko did not show up at Calgary Worlds after the Olympics.

I hesitate to contribute to this rant, but what the helll.....

The only skater to honestly connect with the audience was Weir...I am not a fan, but you have to hand it to him. Evan did what he had to do - effective? Yes. Honestly emotional? No.

Heart-breaking to watch Stephane. This is the guy who can sweep you up in a program llike nobody else. Think the sum total of injuries have made quad landings very difficult for him and taken a toll on his confidence. Such a shame. He will be missed so much.

Plushenko? What can you say. What planet has he been living on? Has he not understood where figure skating has been going in the last four years? You can argue whether you like the COP or not, but it is reality and if you are going to compete in that system then you had better understand how things work.

Ever since the 2009 Russian Grand Prix (which was the beginning of his non-stoop "show-boating"), Plushenko, Mishin and his Resputin-looking "choreographerr" were so incredibly cocky and sure of themselves. The message they sent was "The Olympic gold belongs to us and why would the rest of the competitors even bother showing up."

I saw how they acted in practices in Tallinn - standing by the boards ignoring everybody else, laughing and smirking at each other. During the men's short - I can't remember the skater just before Plushenko - but in acknowledging the applause, Mishin felt he was taking too much time (which he was not) and started waving at this guy in such a rude, dismissive way. The message being: "Get off the ice...get out of the way of Plushenko."

These monstrous egos made these people delusional. Last night, even after all of these wonky landings, etc., Plushenko still somehow believed that by shaking his booty, flipping his air around, rubbing his hands over his face, preening and throwing kisses at the judges - that these antics were going to earn him points. It was almost embarrassing.

The judges were not buying it. Surprise, surprise! The Emperor has no clothes!

Now the cry of bad judging and national conspiracies. Please, get a life! If you are going to compete in the system, understand it and train for it. Don't belly ache about "what ifs" concentrate on "what is."

 

[Dee4707]

He didn't falter on a quad, and that's all that matters. Snort.

But he did falter on a jump and that's what may have cost him the silver medal, so I guess faltering is what matters.

 

[Hsuhs]

Dai's quad was downgraded (plus the fall), and his triple flip/triple toe was downgraded. My viewpoint is that if he didn't do the quad, but did the flip/toe at the start of the program (where he would have had more energy to fully rotate and everything) and a solo triple later on he would have won. Taking risks cost Dai the gold medal.

I don't think Daisuke would have 'won' this Olys with clean triples only. Some other competition, maybe. This one - no (I thought sp scores made that pretty clear). He would have only won with a solid quad plus 8 clean ratified triples plus bringing down the house, imo.

I also think Daisuke's done everything he could at this point, and even more than that. He's my hero.

 

[ademption]

I found this Time article which IMHO presents the problem with the COP system in a subtler way than the Elvis Stojko article:

But one casualty of raising the technical precision of the sport is the spontaneity that makes sports exciting. Athletes at this level live on the edge of control and chaos, and it's the collective 'wow' of moments when they butt themselves up against that line that take our breath away and keep bringing us back to watch. "It's important for any sport to continue to raise the bar and move forward," Paul Wylie, 1992 silver medalist told me after the men's short programs. "I have to admit as a performer who did two triple axels in my program in Albertville, I am surprised that more guys aren't doing the quad."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1966649,00.html#ixzz0g0onFrYu

I remember a few years back, Paul Wylie saying that the quad doesn't receive enough points. I hope in the future the system can be changed so that a person who attempts it doesn't receive both a downgrade, lower grades of execution and a point for the fall.

Here's why D. Takahashi chose to perform the quad:

Bronze medalist Daisuke Takahashi agreed. "For me, the ideal skate would have to include a quad on my part," he said after his medal winning performance in Vancouver. "Although I did attempt the quad and it wasn't successful, I do not regret it at all. It's a challenge to me, and good experience."

Read more: http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1966649-2,00.html#ixzz0g0pco976

I agree with Takahashi. I'm glad he attempted it, even if it meant that he didn't get on top of the podium. I appreciate his attack of the entire program...

 

[ademption]

I don't think Daisuke would have 'won' this Olys with clean triples only. Some other competition, maybe. This one - no (I thought sp scores made that pretty clear). He would have only won with a solid quad plus 8 clean ratified triples plus bringing down the house, imo.

I also think Daisuke's done everything he could at this point, and even more than that. He's my hero.

I couldn't agree with you more. That's why he performed the quad. Given the scores that he received from the judges in the short, all things being equal, he still would have lost to Evan Lysaceck. Didn't he get lower program component scores than Lambiel and Chan?

We'll never know, but I think Takahashi would have had to have had the skate of his life and then some to beat Evan last night....

 

[Mrs. P]

I found this Time article which IMHO presents the problem with the COP system in a subtler way than the Elvis Stojko article:



I remember a few years back, Paul Wylie saying that the quad doesn't receive enough points. I hope in the future the system can be changed so that a person who attempts it doesn't receive both a downgrade, lower grades of execution and a point for the fall.

Here's why D. Takahashi chose to perform the quad:



I agree with Takahashi. I'm glad he attempted it, even if it meant that he didn't get on top of the podium. I appreciate his attack of the entire program...

I really enjoyed reading this piece. I thought the write was thoughtful about the role the quad (or non-quad) played in this Olympics and what it means for the sport in the future.

Everyone talks about how the COP lacks a box for "magic." Perhaps it's not a bad idea to have another box for "risk and innovation."